Talk to me about Christian Pacifisim

[MyLittleBears]

This is the simplified version that we were taught in school, but there are many more (and more complex) reasons that the elite in the colonies chose to pursue independence and war. If you read the Declaration of Independence itself, you will see some (but not all) of the many reasons. For the clearest picture of all the reasons, you have to read multiple primary sources.

 

 

 

 

This was actually NOT taught to me in school. I read it from multiple sources including my very own copy of the declaration. My kid each have one. Just to note, many of the signers of the declaration did so at great risk themselves and to their families. Many of them of spent a life of poverty because of their signing.

[MercyA]

I'm not into the whole military thing and mindset, as I believe they have other agendas going on for provoking war etc....

But I believe 100% that we have the right to defend our loved ones!!!

 

That is one reason I don't fully identify as a pacifist or as non-resistant. Right now, I couldn't say that I wouldn't use force to defend my family if necessary. I want to be consistent and Biblical, however. It's definitely an issue I need to study more. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts!

[Joker]

This has been an interesting discussion. For me, personally, I know I wouldn't be able to intentionally kill anyone to save myself. I'm a Christian. Many in my family have served in the military, including my own dh. There were guns in my home growing up. I don't view myself as a pacifist at all but I know I couldn't intentionally kill anyone (by shooting, etc.). There are zero weapons in my home. I also feel I would fight like crazy to save my dds and to get them to safety. The only pacifists I have ever known have argued that even that isn't okay so I can't get on board with it. 

Edited November 21, 2015 by Joker

[Teannika]

Just really quick again, because I only have a few minutes...

 

Some people believe He did that to fulfill the scriptures, so that He would be counted a transgressor by having the swords.

 

Also, that big group only ended up with two swords, and Jesus said it was enough. It seems more symbolic to a lot of people, because that is not really near enough swords for them.

 

I don't believe that Jesus would preach something like the Sermon on the Mount, and then change it privately later on.

 

And Jesus already covered persecution- He said to flee, not kill.

 

The rest of the NT books say things like "Avenge not yourselves." "We strive not against flesh and blood." "Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink... overcome evil with good." To me, a lot of NT verses support non-resistance, when it's read it without the modern American mindset influencing the way we read it.

 

35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

 

Anyway, there are better arguments out there than mine, and wonderful books on the topic if you want to look into it.

 

In the context of what is happening I read: "It is enough" as being that this is all they need for their immediate future. Obviously they haven't had time to go and sell their garments to buy swords, so Jesus tells them that it is enough for now, as he knows that he is about to be taken and allow this to happen (so they don't need extra protection so to speak). They will then need swords afterwards for the persecution that he knows will follow for them. When they flee they will need swords, because what's the point of even trying to flee if they are not allowed to be proactive in protecting themselves as they go?

 

I see self defence as a natural response. If someone throws punch at me I put my arm up to block it. A sword blocks a sword, it makes sense to use a sword against a sword.

 

Excuse me for this next part, as I haven't done a lot of reading on the subject, I've only just been thinking on it from reading this thread. The context for me is that I am in Australia and from the impression I get of Americans my perspective is quite different, and I am very separate from the idea of being involved in war. The only connection I have is that my grandpa served in World War Two, and I have some vague memories of stories that he told me. We don't own guns here. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a gun in real life. Also, if my children wanted to serve I would be inclined to discourage them. But I think that this is more likely because I don't feel like I can trust the government.

 

As Christians I believe that we have freedom of conscience to either serve in the army or not serve.

 

In the Old Testament God used Israel to defeat other nations; he would also use other nations against Israel. So he used war to achieve his purpose. I believe he still works with nations today as well. So even though we as Christians are not belonging to this world, and we can try not to be a part of it, the situation still remains that while we are still here we are stuck in our temporary circumstance of belonging to a nation.

 

Prophetically speaking when Jesus comes again it will be in war. I'm not saying that this is to be used in context for Christians today to go off conquering, but just to keep in perspective that God is also a God of war:

 

 

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

 

Revelation 19.

 

There will always be war on earth until Jesus comes back and deals with it once and for all.