Latin...how much is enough?

[Ewe Mama]

I had always planned on going deep with Latin. I understand that it is the foundation of many languages and that learning Latin makes learning many other languages easier. I understand the connection with English words and building a better vocabulary based on knowledge of Latin (and Greek) roots. I get it. I really do. In an ideal world we would continue with Latin until we could wow the world with the best of them.

 

But our lives are not ideal. We have been plowing through GSWL and were enjoying it immensely until all those pesky parts of speech and their similar endings started popping up and wreaking havoc on the children's translations and confidence. I laughed out loud at Simon's translation that the inhabitant's islands went swimming near the shore. He was not amused, nor easily consoled. I wasn't laughing at him; I was laughing at the mental image it created for me.

 

The thing is, the fact that the word order is so loose and does not resemble English (or French or Spanish, as far as. I can tell) in sentence structure, and I'm questioning its benefits in helping to learn other languages. French translates much more closely to English than Latin in terms of sentence structure and word order, doesn't it?

 

Maybe we started too early, before everyone was comfortable with the parts of speech in English.

 

I am just wondering if we should put it aside and focus on French or Spanish, like the kids want to. Joy still seems to enjoy Latin, and I plan to continue, but the littles are floundering about.

 

Would studying word roots be just as effective, or should we pick it back up and keep plowing through at a slower pace?

 

I was considering purchasing Lively Latin, but wonder if it would be worth it for us or not.

 

Please share your thoughts. Sorry for rambling to much. Just trying to get a plan in place and go with it.

[Classical Katharine]

Hello Ewe,

 

You're doing some great thinking and asking some important questions. Because really, how long you need to study Latin depends on what you want to get out of it, and then making sure your chosen program supports your own family's specific goals.

 

But as for where you are in Latin right now, I think you've hit the nail on the head about parts of speech--not having those down first is definitely a hindrance, but certainly a problem you can easily fix by taking a break and solidifying some English grammar.

 

It's helpful, before doing any program that requires translation, to make sure your children can identify not only parts of speech, but also one or two noun uses, such as the subject and the direct object, or the object of the preposition. If children haven't shown that they are ready for that type of English grammar, they will be lost when dealing with a Latin program that builds quickly into translation. A Latin program may explain English grammar, but still, children need to be ready, and the best way to make sure is to do some English grammar first.

 

If you are already mid-stream with GSWL and don't want to completely pause it, then I'd suggest that in each new section, you check out what the underlying English grammar concept is, and pre-teach that concept, using English examples, before doing the Latin chapter. But since it's the summer maybe you can use this time, or use the beginning of the new school year, to solidify English before returning to Latin. You may also feel more comfortable with Latin programs that do more grammar explaining as part of the text. There are a number that do.

 

You are right that French grammar is more like English grammar than like Latin grammar. Latin is an advantage in the study of Romance languages mainly in the area of similar vocabulary, and secondarily in the discipline of learning an involved verb system. But the heavily inflected noun system of Latin is more like the grammar of other inflected languages, such as Russian and Greek. Romance languages don't have "noun case" but Russian and Greek do, like Latin--and they are unthreatening to students of Latin!

 

Also, the Latin advantage for English vocabulary needs to be actively supported, either with a roots program or by using a Latin program that includes derivative work, for best results.

 

It sounds as if you are doing some great pondering about what your own family's language goals are, which will help you chart your course!

 

P.S. Here's a recent thread on Why Latin that gets into some of the parallels between Latin and Russian, along with some of the more common reasons for studying Latin:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/550794-why-teach-latin/

[SnMomof7]

The simple answer may be to let your littles wait :). 12 is a good age to start Latin. I tried BRIEFLY with DD1 when she was younger (8 or 9). She's just now restarting at 12. Some English grammar familiarity really does help.

[Ali in OR]

It may be different for different kids. *I* enjoy languages and would keep doing Latin forever, so I was not the limiter. My older dd shared my bent for languages and did as much Latin as she could before entering public high school where it is not offered (we briefly considered continuing anyway, but it was just too much on top of everything else). She made it through a second year high school level course and passed the level 2 NLE with a gold. Her younger sister, however, does not appreciate learning a dead language. I'm letting her quit now after 4 years and we'll transition to Spanish. 

[Haiku]

If it's not working for your kids right now I would stop for a while and try again later, but honestly, if you feel that GSWL has "all those pesky parts of speech," you may need to re-evaluate what it is you are looking for in Latin. GSWL barely skims the surface of Latin grammar. It contains a tiny percentage of word endings your kids will have to learn (and memorize). 

 

I didn't start Latin with dd until she was in 6th grade and well-grounded in English grammar. She's now starting 8th grade and finishing up her Latin 1 credit. The only one of your kids I would be working on Latin with is your oldest, based on their ages.

 

Ps. It doesn't matter whether the sentence structure of Latin is similar to English or another language you plan to learn. Latin will help you learn another language. English is not a very inflected language; most other languages are more heavily inflected. Understanding inflection is key.

[Momto4inSoCal]

I just finished reading Climbing Parnassus which has, for the first time, convinced me to teach my kids Latin. I would love for them to get to the point of being able to read original works of Cicero, Horace, Vergil and Ovid.  We will see how my romanticized idea of what our homeschool will be pans out... I would highly recommend reading that book to inspire you to push forward with Latin. The arguments for Latin presented by the author were not the normal learn logic, learn grammar arguments. Understanding Latin opens you up to the original works that our society is based on. Translations are changed by what the translator saw when translating the original work. The author believed Latin (and Greek) cultivated your mind beyond a student studying for to be a technician in a field. Honestly I'm not doing the book justice you really have to read it but you will be inspired to continue. I was sold on everything Classical except latin. That being said, I'm a firm believer in doing what works best for your family as a homeschooler. I've had to realize a lot of MY wants for my children and idea's I think are exceptional don't always fit my kids. The biggest thing I love about homeschooling is I don't have to fit my kids into a mold. We are going to do two years of spanish then start latin when my girls are in 6th and 7th grade.

[8filltheheart]

My response is similar to Tara's. I would not be doing Latin with any of your children except the oldest.