Do you give your ADHD kiddo less work to do?

[diaperjoys]

Our almost 12yo kiddo has ADHD, and I'm struggling to find balance for his day. He seems to need more time to transition between things. For example, a morning routine which consists of making bed, eating breakfast, brushing teeth and doing a couple simple chores, can take him a very long time to do. Much time is lost by wandering around and not moving efficiently from thing to thing. Add a list of school subjects, and he can often work himself into a position where the entire day is spent getting his school list done, leaving him no time at all for free play. Some days he can pull it together, and other days it just. takes. all. day. long.

 

I'm not sure if this is simply a maturity issue - ADHD kiddo do have delayed maturity. However, he's our oldest, so I can't compare him to what our older kids were doing at such and such an age. Should I expect less? Should I reduce his work load? Learning to work efficiently is a critical life skill, so I'm reluctant to require less. However, pushing him to do something that is developmentally not yet there will not get us anywhere either. I don't want to be continually reminding him what to do every minute of the day, but neither do I want to let him flounder. Do ya'll have ideas for helping to find balance?

 

We've done some testing, and we know that is IQ is high, he's near genius with his word/language skills, and the tests say he has average ability in math - though day to day life suggests math is a bigger issue than what the tests reveal. 

 

We do medicate, and we also use supplements which all help with his focus. He's the oldest of 5, and this is what we have lined up for the upcoming school year. Does it seem like too much for 12yo?

 

All the kids together:

Biblioplan - History/Literature/Church History/Geography

Bible - read a chapter with everyone in the morning

Science - Elemental Science, Biology for the Logic Stage

 

Everyone on their own level:

Math – CLE most days, sometimes  TT  or “Key to†(we do math year round)

Logic – Thinking Toolbox

Writing –  Writing and Rhetoric

Grammar –  Daily Grams

Keyboarding – online

Vocabulary from Classical Roots A

Latin w/ Papa

Music â€“ piano (required) cello (his choice)

Sports â€“ intermittently throughout the school year.

[sbgrace]

I can't speak to the too much or not, as mine is a bit younger (11).

 

However, understand your concern and empathize. 

 

I have twins. My ADHD twin does somewhat less work than his twin, though they do the same things.

 

For example, I skip some CLE problems with him (and sit with him for most of it in contrast to his twin; that's another story). He does 1-2 Singapore word problems a day, while his twin often does a whole section. The twin is often a full book ahead of him in that area. This isn't due to intelligence, but ability to focus. We do pretty extensive memory work. Yesterday was a review day. His twin reviewed 7 times the material, and with a lot less help from me, compared to the ADHD one. The ADHD one is actually good at memorizing...when he's focused...but his ability focus is a very limited thing.

 

Everything he does takes 4 times as long. This means I limit both kids somewhat, because there just isn't enough time. If I had two who could focus and be efficient with time, I could definitely get a lot more done in a day with both.

 

Generally, everything here takes much longer than it should due to the attention issues. It feels discouraging. I think it's probably a lot like you're experiencing.

 

I am experimenting with trying to balance our days. We will continue to do math daily, but I'm thinking of trying to make just one other time consuming (for the ADHD kid, due to attention) thing on each day. So when I do heavy composition, it's probably not going to be a heavy memory work day, for example. I school year round, so I'm trying this for summer. If I feel progress is still going to be adequate, I may stick with it through next school year. It's not ideal, but our all our time packed with school day wasn't either. I think I may get better quality, in terms of focus/actual learning, when I limit the quantity of material each day.

[MerryAtHope]

 

All the kids together:

Biblioplan - History/Literature/Church History/Geography

Bible - read a chapter with everyone in the morning

Science - Elemental Science, Biology for the Logic Stage

 

Everyone on their own level:

Math – CLE most days, sometimes  TT  or “Key to†(we do math year round)

Logic – Thinking Toolbox

Writing –  Writing and Rhetoric

Grammar –  Daily Grams

Keyboarding – online

Vocabulary from Classical Roots A

Latin w/ Papa

Music â€“ piano (required) cello (his choice)

Sports â€“ intermittently throughout the school year.

 

 

 

That does seem like a lot of topics, even though some of them individually are short (I know Daily Grams are like 10 minutes or so). Since transitions are difficult, you might think about some of these things in terms of quarters or semesters, rather than doing all of them all year. I would aim for a schedule that puts him at 4-6 hours of school time (my kids were usually in the 5-6 hour range at this age, and oldest had similar struggles), and know that you are going to need to help him know what to aim for for each subject. (Note, I don't include sports in that time unless it's really a LOT of time, but do include electives like language and music).

 

Start with your core subjects--how long does it take to do all of the "together" items? Maybe 2 hours? Then build up from there. Which items are most important? 

 

I'd build up the schedule next in this way:

 

Math - 45-60 minutes

Language arts - 60 minutes. I usually do about 30 minutes of reading and 30 minutes of either writing or grammar. I don't do grammar every year, and I don't do a separate vocabulary program since I read aloud a lot to my kids and we discuss words during that time.

 

Latin with Papa--this sounds like a good thing that I probably wouldn't eliminate because of the relationship with Papa more than because it's Latin. Latin is important and has value...but if I had to cut corners, it would be lower on my list than some other things unless it's beloved by the student. 

 

music--piano is school/mandatory. Cello is free time. It's good free time, and I'd probably work hard to encourage/foster that development--even to the point of eventually considering whether he could drop piano if cello is really his love. But I'd see if, for now, cello could be something he does on his own. 

 

I'm guessing that he's at 5-6 hours at this point.

 

Logic and keyboarding are valuable, but would not rate as high priority-wise for a student who is struggling to get it all done. If his other subjects take more than 6 hours, I'd drop them until maybe a summer elective time slot (ie, do math and keyboarding for the summer, or math and logic...), or some other elective time. 

 

Start with some basic subjects, get a good flow going--and then think about whether you have time for some of the lower-priority subjects. (And of course, feel free to prioritize differently than I would, I'm just giving some of my thought process!)

 

As far as streamlining school, I found that Workboxes were highly effective. They are like a 3-d schedule that break your student's work down into doable parts--you have one box for each subject (I'd do them mainly for independent subjects, unless there are notebooks etc.... for some of the together subjects), and you have everything you need in one spot. Teach your student to always return the items to the box before marking that box as done--critical for kids with ADHD! They lose things easily otherwise, and time is wasted looking for books or a pencil or a ruler or....

 

By focusing on just one subject at a time, it makes it feel more doable, and there's a concrete reinforcement with the velcro-stickers or whatever method you use to mark boxes as "done" that helps them see how they are moving through their day.

 

One thing that helped mine to work more efficiently--set a deadline. If Math is an hour--don't let him take 2 hours. At an hour, see if he's about done & give 10 minutes to finish up, or have him move on. The rest is homework. Homework is done during the scheduled "free time." Announce that it's free time unless he has homework. Homework is done at the kitchen table or another place you choose (not lying in bed etc...). Kids often don't have a concept of time and just let things drag on--but if they have "free time" scheduled and it's taken up by "homework," it makes more of an impact. This strategy combined with workboxes can help even kids with ADHD work a bit more orderly and efficiently. And eventually the workboxes just take your place, so you don't have to tell him to move on etc... He'll know because the info is right in front of him.

 

HTH some as you think through how to help him with his day.

[PeterPan]

It's hard to tell whether what you're describing with his morning routine is due to sequencing issues (something a visual schedule could help), dawdling (something a timer on an ipod, ipad mini, or kindle could help), or that he wakes slowly.  When is he taking the meds in this and how long are they taking to kick in?  My dd doesn't take meds, but I've read of some people rising an hour early, taking their meds, then going back to bed or reading or something for an hour to let the meds kick in before they attempt their routine.  I know my dd has always had a shockingly slow rise time.  I finally found an answer (the foggy brain waves go even foggier in the night, so she has a hard time coming out).  Our compromise has always been to plan on it and stay apart for 1 1/2-2 hours in the morning.  Yes, that makes for a late start time.  I'm watching to see if the neurofeedback we're doing changes it.

 

You seem to have a lot of separate subjects which, as Merry already pointed out, is pretty odd considering his transition issues.  You might try for 4 subjects a day, clear written expectations (checklist that he can do completely independently), axe everything with his siblings (gifted 6th grader with 2nd grader???), and have check-in points.

 

Where is his reading??  How much does he read each day?  Does he read comfortably or is it crunchy for him?  If it's comfortable, I'd be expecting to see 1-2 hours a day of reading.  If you have a gifted child and you give them that SPACE to read, then you decrease their other work.  I'd chop out half that work (I'm not joking), get it down to 3-4 hours a day MAX, and that leaves him the 1-2 hours a day he needs to read.  Reading what intellectually stimulates him will do more for his SAT/ACT scores than anything you're attempting to teach him, and in a few years that's what you'll be caring about, those test scores.  Let him read.

 

Where is his passion?  Is he doing anything each day to pursue his passion?  He should have 1-2 hours a day to pursue his passion and have ENERGY to do it.  If he does 6 hours a day with you formally and does 1-2 hours a day of reading and cello and sports and... there's nothing left for a passion.  THIS is the time when you want to let him explore passions!  He's just now getting old enough to explore them with vigor and really get into them.  You really want to let him do this.  It's another reason to get his formal academics down to 3-4 hours a day.

 

I've tried, for a number of years now, to ballpark my dd's formal assigned school work in the 3-4 hour a day range.  I find that it's her balance for getting work done and having energy leftover for her reading and for her passions.  I caution you against relying too much on formally assigned work.  It's going to be your *least* effective route oftentimes with these kids.  The things they do with PASSION will be the things where they are most engaged.

 

Some kids do not like how they feel on the meds and find they dampen their creativity.  I'm not making a judgment, just pointing out that if that is the case you might consider a 4 hour med.  That way he could have the tool to do his sit down work (that 3-4 hours we were talking about) and then have the afternoon without meds for his passion and creativity stuff.  Just something to consider.  

 

You mentioned ADHD kids being slower to mature, but the question is whether you're talking EF (executive function), socially, or what.  The social delay is present in some kids and not others.  The EF delay is part of what defines the ADHD.  EF issues respond well to structure.  You said you don't want to have to check on him, but to get the self-monitoring you're wanting you have to create structure.  For instance, the karate class my ds just started sends everyone home with a checklist they fill out each night asking questions like did you make your bed, did you show respect to your family, did you do your homework, etc. etc.  This self-evaluation and self-monitoring and the process of having them hold a thought from one day to the next is all EF.  Karate is one giant EF program, hehe, very impressive.  

 

You'll get what you instruct him in and you'll get what you inspect.  What *can* bump EF is metronome work and cognitive therapy, anything that works on the EF portion of the brain.  So, for instance, you could drop meds, do Cogmed, and you might get an EF bump that carries over into real life.  (I'm suggesting you drop the meds while doing the Cogmed because I'm seeing stories where they didn't and didn't get excellent results on the Cogmed, where people usually do.)  So sometimes cognitive therapies can help bring those skills in and get the bump.  Sometimes the issue, and I'm being honest here, is lack of motivation.  You put a GIFTED ADHD dc in a situation where he's bored, doing lots of spiral stuff, waiting around for mom, doing classes with his siblings, spending all day, has no hope to get to do anything with passion, and no he's not going to do the mature thing and show up psyched to work, lol.  And maybe that's not your situation.  I'm just saying how MY dd is.  My dd's mind is like that, just very emotional and given to de-motivation.  I don't think having a passion solves EVERYTHING, because they're still inefficient, etc. etc.  I'm just saying you could be seeing part of it.  ADHD is statistically connected to depression, and we need to be cognizant of this.  We don't want them in a constant state of de-motivation.   :(  We need to be brave enough to make radical changes that break the de-motivation cycle.  

 

Ok, now I'll ask, not meaning to be impolite.  Your sig says you pulled him out of school mid-year.  What was going on and is that issue resolved?  I'm just thinking stuff at school will happen at home if the underlying issue wasn't changed.  

 

You mentioned math issues.  How big was the discrepancy between IQ and achievement?  You can get to an SLD diagnosis via discrepancy.  My dd's math facts were crunchy for a long time and her low processing speed compounded it.  With ds I'm using Ronit Bird materials and the Fast Facts Math app.

 

 

 

[diaperjoys]

MerryAtHope - thank you so much, you've given me some great things to think about. That's what I love about this forum - brainstorming help!

 

 

It's hard to tell whether what you're describing with his morning routine is due to sequencing issues (something a visual schedule could help), dawdling (something a timer on an ipod, ipad mini, or kindle could help), or that he wakes slowly.  When is he taking the meds in this and how long are they taking to kick in?  My dd doesn't take meds, but I've read of some people rising an hour early, taking their meds, then going back to bed or reading or something for an hour to let the meds kick in before they attempt their routine.  I know my dd has always had a shockingly slow rise time.  I finally found an answer (the foggy brain waves go even foggier in the night, so she has a hard time coming out).  Our compromise has always been to plan on it and stay apart for 1 1/2-2 hours in the morning.  Yes, that makes for a late start time.  I'm watching to see if the neurofeedback we're doing changes it.

 

You seem to have a lot of separate subjects which, as Merry already pointed out, is pretty odd considering his transition issues.  You might try for 4 subjects a day, clear written expectations (checklist that he can do completely independently), axe everything with his siblings (gifted 6th grader with 2nd grader???), and have check-in points.

 

Where is his reading??  How much does he read each day?  Does he read comfortably or is it crunchy for him?  If it's comfortable, I'd be expecting to see 1-2 hours a day of reading.  If you have a gifted child and you give them that SPACE to read, then you decrease their other work.  I'd chop out half that work (I'm not joking), get it down to 3-4 hours a day MAX, and that leaves him the 1-2 hours a day he needs to read.  Reading what intellectually stimulates him will do more for his SAT/ACT scores than anything you're attempting to teach him, and in a few years that's what you'll be caring about, those test scores.  Let him read. Reading skills are very high - for example, he was finishing Watership Down just prior to starting 1st Grade. He loves, loves, loves to read. 

 

Where is his passion?  Is he doing anything each day to pursue his passion?  He should have 1-2 hours a day to pursue his passion and have ENERGY to do it.  If he does 6 hours a day with you formally and does 1-2 hours a day of reading and cello and sports and... there's nothing left for a passion.  THIS is the time when you want to let him explore passions!  He's just now getting old enough to explore them with vigor and really get into them.  You really want to let him do this.  It's another reason to get his formal academics down to 3-4 hours a day. It's summer, and he has all kinds of time to pursue his passion, which is currently herpetology. He has our backyard full of turtles of all kinds of ages and varieties. Before school ended I was having him do all his writing/art/research on turtle related topics so that he could blend studies with passion.

 

I've tried, for a number of years now, to ballpark my dd's formal assigned school work in the 3-4 hour a day range.  I find that it's her balance for getting work done and having energy leftover for her reading and for her passions.  I caution you against relying too much on formally assigned work.  It's going to be your *least* effective route oftentimes with these kids.  The things they do with PASSION will be the things where they are most engaged.

 

Some kids do not like how they feel on the meds and find they dampen their creativity.  I'm not making a judgment, just pointing out that if that is the case you might consider a 4 hour med.  That way he could have the tool to do his sit down work (that 3-4 hours we were talking about) and then have the afternoon without meds for his passion and creativity stuff.  Just something to consider. A 4 hour med is something to give consideration to - I'll think on that.

 

You mentioned ADHD kids being slower to mature, but the question is whether you're talking EF (executive function), socially, or what.  The social delay is present in some kids and not others.  The EF delay is part of what defines the ADHD.  EF issues respond well to structure.  You said you don't want to have to check on him, but to get the self-monitoring you're wanting you have to create structure.  For instance, the karate class my ds just started sends everyone home with a checklist they fill out each night asking questions like did you make your bed, did you show respect to your family, did you do your homework, etc. etc.  This self-evaluation and self-monitoring and the process of having them hold a thought from one day to the next is all EF.  Karate is one giant EF program, hehe, very impressive.  Social delay is certainly present - he typically jives best with kiddos about 2 years younger than he is, and his social behavior matches that two years below type mark as well. I need to pull out his test results again - EF doesn't stand out to me as an issue, but our main goal during the testing was to determine if he had a form of autism or not, since he displays certain asperger type symptoms. He tested as ADHD, with no autism.

 

You'll get what you instruct him in and you'll get what you inspect.  What *can* bump EF is metronome work and cognitive therapy, anything that works on the EF portion of the brain.  So, for instance, you could drop meds, do Cogmed, and you might get an EF bump that carries over into real life.  (I'm suggesting you drop the meds while doing the Cogmed because I'm seeing stories where they didn't and didn't get excellent results on the Cogmed, where people usually do.)  So sometimes cognitive therapies can help bring those skills in and get the bump.  Sometimes the issue, and I'm being honest here, is lack of motivation.  You put a GIFTED ADHD dc in a situation where he's bored, doing lots of spiral stuff, waiting around for mom, doing classes with his siblings, spending all day, has no hope to get to do anything with passion, and no he's not going to do the mature thing and show up psyched to work, lol.  And maybe that's not your situation.  I'm just saying how MY dd is.  My dd's mind is like that, just very emotional and given to de-motivation.  I don't think having a passion solves EVERYTHING, because they're still inefficient, etc. etc.  I'm just saying you could be seeing part of it.  ADHD is statistically connected to depression, and we need to be cognizant of this.  We don't want them in a constant state of de-motivation.   :(  We need to be brave enough to make radical changes that break the de-motivation cycle.  You're making excellent points here, and it makes a ton of sense to me. 

 

Ok, now I'll ask, not meaning to be impolite.  Your sig says you pulled him out of school mid-year.  What was going on and is that issue resolved?  I'm just thinking stuff at school will happen at home if the underlying issue wasn't changed.  Without going into too much detail, depression was the issue, and 90% of that depression was school triggered. And, yes, it was very much resolved by bringing him home.  

 

You mentioned math issues.  How big was the discrepancy between IQ and achievement?  You can get to an SLD diagnosis via discrepancy.  My dd's math facts were crunchy for a long time and her low processing speed compounded it.  With ds I'm using Ronit Bird materials and the Fast Facts Math app. I don't remember the actual numbers, but when we had the testing done, the gal said that there was more than one way to look at the numbers. He was in 4th grade at the time, and his math skills were average when compared to his 4th grade peers. But because he tested so incredibly high in other areas, and because of the distance between those two scores, some would consider it a disability. And others wouldn't. 

 

[Tiramisu]

I'd get rid of the vocab and the logic. I don't know much about Biblioplan but if you are doing it as a group and reading aloud, that would be enough. I wouldn't ask for any writing for that or the science unless he wanted to.

 

I took this approach like this for one child and it worked very well. Just reading certain subjects and not requiring written work alleviates stress and lets them enjoy learning. Like Elizabeth mentioned, leave him room to find his passion, both in his school work and life beyond. Once he finds what he loves, that will fuel him in all he does for the future. I once heard SWB speak and she said if they do one subject very well, they will learn the skills they need and apply them in other areas when they have to.

[PeterPan]

I can't quote, since you wrote inside my post, so I'm just pulling this down. 

 

 Social delay is certainly present - he typically jives best with kiddos about 2 years younger than he is, and his social behavior matches that two years below type mark as well. I need to pull out his test results again - EF doesn't stand out to me as an issue, but our main goal during the testing was to determine if he had a form of autism or not, since he displays certain asperger type symptoms. He tested as ADHD, with no autism.

 

 

Are you using ASD-appropriate techniques for those ASD symptoms?  That line where they go ASD with ADHD or ADHD with social delay is *really* really* fuzzy.  My ds has gone both ways on evals, with one psych calling it ADHD with social delay, the other calling it ASD with ADHD.  Same child, same year. In any case, for me I've decided I'm going to use ANYTHING that works from ANY camp.  

 

So, for instance, I'm looking at what you wrote, and it just seems like he's drifting, like he has very serious EF issues and an inability to pull it together, initiate, and organize himself. So are you doing anything to support that?  Visual schedules?  Alarms on an ipod or ipad mini or kindle?  That's the kind of stuff I'm doing with my ds.  His need for support goes WAY beyond dd's.  Dd is straight ADHD, no ASD or kissing the spectrum at all, and I can tell you, having worked with one dc who is only ADHD, that extra kissing the spectrum is a LOT of extra disability.  He needs a LOT more support than dd to get anything done.  

 

I'd encourage you to come over to LC and post.  We've had some threads recently on visual schedules.  I should find a better alarm app.  The one I'm using right now with ds just has the time, no place for comments or pictures.  Surely I can do better.  I make visual schedules for mini routines (how to clean your room), the morning, how to pack your swim bag, etc.  I'm up making more right now, hehe.  And if he's beyond visual, then words.  I'm not sure why they say visual, except these kids ARE so visual.I don't know at what age they typically transition over.  Someone on LC would know.

 

You might move up that typing, even if it means axing some things.  Becoming a proficient typist would allow him to participate in online boards, email lists, etc. for his passion.  He's at a good age to start doing that stuff.  I told my dd I'll let her do ANYTHING, so long as she asks me first.  I keep the passwords, and she knows I can check ANYTHING (her online accounts, her computer, anything) at any time and that I in fact DO.  If you're antsy about his age, that would be a way to handle it.  

 

I know it's frustrating, but the energy you spend getting things working better will be better than if you had just put it into academics.  You want that EF, the routines, nurturing flexibility, social skills, etc.  Does he get to socialize through his passion?  There's a really good book on passions.  Just Give Him the Whale!: 20 Ways to Use Fascinations, Areas of Expertise, and Strengths to Support Students with...

 

Adding: has he had an OT eval?  It only took 3 OTs, but they finally found the retained primitive reflexes my ds has...  I'm starting him on neurofeedback in August with this OT.  Until then we're doing RMT, BalavisX, etc. on him, trying to work on modulation and just to get him into a place where his body can be more calm.

[SilverMoon]

Not really. He's still expected to get through core subjects that are at a decent challenge level for him.  Multum non multa methods are pretty much a requirement though. He almost always drags subjects into summer to get them finished. It can take more unique approaches to help him get through them, and knowing when to throw in the towel to reevaluate good enough in his worst subjects. He gets strong input into his courses, but I decide on the actual material and assignments. He *must* have one or two courses that are high interest to him every year.

 

Double dip subjects where you can, and drop those extra "little bits" that stack up. Perhaps save logic until he's old enough for something meatier, and you could even work it into his composition block at that point. Or else relegate it to being a fun summer course.  I'd drop the vocab. We found it redundant with Latin and classic literature.

[Targhee]

I have 3 kids with ADHD - all flavors. I can relate to task initiation (ha ha! that just autocorrected to 'infuriation' and I thought it was too funny!), distract ability, transition issues, etc. Things that have helped morning routine - routine cards (visual or written), musical timers (they can tell the song is ending even if they can't see a clock), visual timers (free online), and seriously streamlining the tasks.

 

What has helped during learning/school work - waiting for meds to kick in before expecting productivity (we do morning basket after they get meds, all together with read aloud and very little output required, no writing of any kind), daily or weekly checklist, routine!!! (It takes a long time to build but it is sooo helpful), providing options for work environment to suit their learning (quiet or background noise, dim or bright, sitting or on the floor (or upside down!), fidgets, etc), and for the oldest an old iPhone with calendar and alarms. They remind her when to switch topics and when to get to her online classes. We used to plan the calendar together every week, now she does it mostly herself (after 18 months of working on it together). She sometimes forgets to carry the phone around with her though :doh:

 

The whole idea of elapsed time is difficult for people with ADHD, and for my oldest in particular. Dr Hallowell described it well when he said ADHD people only understand two times, "now, and not-now." This can mean they take for.EV.eR getting things done, and day dreaming, and not realize it.

 

Mostly I think these kids just need more time for their prefrontal cortex to thin out. While you're waiting those extra years, teach them EF skills overtly. Many recommend Smart But Scattered. I also recommend playing games, as these help build EF in fun and social ways.

 

Best Wishes!

[Targhee]

Oh, and as far as whether to require less work - I require less physical output (writing, tangible products, etc). If they can correctly answer the hardest 3-4 problems on a math page section they don't have to do the rest of that section. If I can take an oral answer they don't have to write it. I still require the same amount of reading and lesson time.

[diaperjoys]

 

The whole idea of elapsed time is difficult for people with ADHD, and for my oldest in particular. Dr Hallowell described it well when he said ADHD people only understand two times, "now, and not-now." This can mean they take for.EV.eR getting things done, and day dreaming, and not realize it.

 

This.  Reading a clock is still very difficult, and, when we do get the clock read, it doesn't provide him with much in the way of useful information. "We're going to do thus and such at 1:00" is not a helpful statement to him. 

 

I'm going to google the musical timers and the visual clocks - those are new to me. Understanding where he is in the context of the flow of a day would be an immense step forward.

[diaperjoys]

"Kissing of the spectrum". That's a good way to put it. We had him tested with a world-renown research group that just happens to be in our area. We were extremely satisfied with their evaluation process, the time the team took to analyze every detail, etc. So I don't have any reason to doubt their conclusion. HOWEVER, there are times when the easiest way to help others understand what is going on with him is to say that he has "Aspergers symptoms". He misunderstands body language and facial expression at times, and misunderstands how his own body language and facial expressions communicate to others. 

 

Yes, we've done OT with him in the past. It did a ton to help him address his sensory seeking behaviors. I hadn't considered that it might be time to do more OT in order to address the executive processing. Duh. See? This is why brainstorming is so very helpfu! I get stuck in a hole sometimes and don't realize it.

 

Way helpful, all of you. Keep the good ideas coming, I'm excited about the potential for setting things up to really support this kiddo this year.

 

 

[PeterPan]

I have 3 kids with ADHD - all flavors. I can relate to task initiation (ha ha! that just autocorrected to 'infuriation' and I thought it was too funny!), distract ability, transition issues, etc. Things that have helped morning routine - routine cards (visual or written), musical timers (they can tell the song is ending even if they can't see a clock), visual timers (free online), and seriously streamlining the tasks.

 

How do you do these?

[SilverMoon]

The existence of timers alone is enough to make mine barely able to work. I make sure he has a good watch and encourage him to check it often.

[PeterPan]

This.  Reading a clock is still very difficult, and, when we do get the clock read, it doesn't provide him with much in the way of useful information. "We're going to do thus and such at 1:00" is not a helpful statement to him. 

 

I'm going to google the musical timers and the visual clocks - those are new to me. Understanding where he is in the context of the flow of a day would be an immense step forward.

Have you ever done anything with him on how time feels? If his sense of elapsed time is bad, you can do some activities watching time pass and trying to get a FEEL for 30 seconds, 1 minute, etc.  Mine has been consistently off by 50% over the years.  Once you realize your sense of time is that off, you stop relying on it or at least do the math.  (Oh, it feels like 30 minutes, must have been 45.) If he can have an ipod touch or old iphone to keep in his pocket, he can use that for alarms throughout the day.  I set alarms for pack times for leaving, alarms to remind me to eat, alarms to remind me put ds down for quiet time, etc. etc.  That same device can have apps for visual schedules, all those things people are suggesting.  Technology is really where it's at for these kids. 

 

I'm guessing his issue reading clocks goes back to that math disability.  How is his overall math going?

[PeterPan]

The existence of timers alone is enough to make mine barely able to work. I make sure he has a good watch and encourage him to check it often.

I don't use timers with ds to rush him.  They're more for the *start* of something, like to remind him it's 1pm and time for quiet time, time to pack your bag for swim lessons, etc.  I guess that makes them alarms, lol.  

 

I take that back.  We've been using songs to try to speed things up, like seeing if you can get out of your swim clothes before I finish a verse of a song.  That's why the musical timer idea interested me, because right now I'm singing in the locker room at the Y, hehe...

[diaperjoys]

Have you ever done anything with him on how time feels? If his sense of elapsed time is bad, you can do some activities watching time pass and trying to get a FEEL for 30 seconds, 1 minute, etc.  Mine has been consistently off by 50% over the years.  Once you realize your sense of time is that off, you stop relying on it or at least do the math.  (Oh, it feels like 30 minutes, must have been 45.) If he can have an ipod touch or old iphone to keep in his pocket, he can use that for alarms throughout the day.  I set alarms for pack times for leaving, alarms to remind me to eat, alarms to remind me put ds down for quiet time, etc. etc.  That same device can have apps for visual schedules, all those things people are suggesting.  Technology is really where it's at for these kids. 

 

I'm guessing his issue reading clocks goes back to that math disability.  How is his overall math going?

 

Haven't done anything with how time feels. He truly has no idea about elapsed time which we've not yet conquered. We don't have a lot of technology here. High speed internet and flip phones. So the whole ipod world is something I need to learn. I think some type of a visual schedule in his pocket would really, really help.

 

Overall math - that's a big one, a post all it's own. Right now we're focusing on CLE, which he currently prefers over TT, and doing some Key to Fractions work as well. It's summer, so it varies a bit. One day we'll hit one, another day we'll hit the other. TT was our main program last year (just finishing grade 6), and we did CLE for the spiral review, but backed up to be sure it was largely review (grade 4). The concepts in TT outpaced him and lessons became very distressing for him, and it was clear we needed to take another run at fractions. He's learning steadily, but needs to hit new concepts multiple times.

[PeterPan]

"Kissing of the spectrum". That's a good way to put it. We had him tested with a world-renown research group that just happens to be in our area. We were extremely satisfied with their evaluation process, the time the team took to analyze every detail, etc. So I don't have any reason to doubt their conclusion. HOWEVER, there are times when the easiest way to help others understand what is going on with him is to say that he has "Aspergers symptoms". He misunderstands body language and facial expression at times, and misunderstands how his own body language and facial expressions communicate to others. 

 

Yes, we've done OT with him in the past. It did a ton to help him address his sensory seeking behaviors. I hadn't considered that it might be time to do more OT in order to address the executive processing. Duh. See? This is why brainstorming is so very helpfu! I get stuck in a hole sometimes and don't realize it.

 

Way helpful, all of you. Keep the good ideas coming, I'm excited about the potential for setting things up to really support this kiddo this year.

Are you doing anything to work on the social and body language, etc?  I'm just curious, because maybe you're doing something that would help us.   :)  I've been looking into RDI, Relationship Development Intervention, which works on non-verbals, which are of course the foundation for the rest.

 

You can do metronome work at home or IM (Interactive Metronome) with an OT.  There are the Executive Function Training Workbooks from Linguisystems (now Pro-Ed Inc).  There's Cogmed.  I'm just curious though about his sense of elapsed time.  If that isn't there (or he doesn't yet realize by what percent his sense is typically off), then that alone can cause a huge problem without him even trying to.  

 

Your biggest battle is not solving his problems, because some problems can't be fixed.  The challenge is getting him to accept accommodations, understand himself, and use the tools.  I spent this school year getting my ds an IEP, because in our state we have disability scholarships that require an IEP.  One of the amazing things about the process was seeing what someone ELSE could see into my child as possible with a bit of support that *I* could not yet see.  My ds is very hard to work with sometimes and it has been really confounding to me how to balance the conflicting advice (tell him what to do, let him follow his passions, cater to the giftedness, remediate the disabilities, etc.).  The school's take was a bit different, because they had ONE GOAL: get him functional.  

 

And functional in school meant he could self-regulate, know what was coming next, and follow the plan.  So they wanted OT to improve self-regulation, and then ANYTHING IT TAKES to improve his ability to follow the plan.  And what blew my mind was that they thought he COULD follow the plan!  But I dug in on the IEP and read the recommendations and realized just HOW MUCH SUPPORT they were willing to provide to make that happen.  I'm up again this morning making more visuals for him.  Seriously.  

 

So it's not so much whether it's his plan or our plan or a blended plan.  These kids are walking entropy, so their plan is going to be random and chaotic.  They need support just to implement their own plan, lol.  

 

I thought of this last night, and maybe it fits or it doesn't.  Have you thought of bringing in some help?  Like maybe a teen who would work with some of your youngers or retired grandma who would work with him?  

 

You were saying he's struggling with clock faces.  We have digital clocks almost everywhere.  Actually, if you want a laugh, I have clocks in almost every room of the house because my sense of time is so bad, lol.   Clocks in the bathrooms, clocks in closets, clocks in the tv room.  Basically from almost anywhere I am, I can see a clock.  Because without it I won't know the time, lol.  Anyways, I don't think hyper-scheduling is easy to maintain, sigh.  Routines and a flow (these are your next 4 activities) work here and end points.  That's where those alarms come in.  When the alarm goes off, just stop and do what the alarm says, no biggee.  You can put all his work onto a loop schedule if you want.  That way when the alarm goes off at noon for lunch he can just STOP.  Next day he'll just pick back up where he left off in the loop.  

[PeterPan]

Haven't done anything with how time feels. He truly has no idea about elapsed time which we've not yet conquered. We don't have a lot of technology here. High speed internet and flip phones. So the whole ipod world is something I need to learn. I think some type of a visual schedule in his pocket would really, really help.

 

I know people having their parenting (or financial, or whatever) reasons for why they do things.  I'll just tell you that technology can be IMMENSELY helpful with these kids.  Give that kid some technology, with parental controls on it obviously, get some good apps, and get this thing going!  

 

The OT was showing me an app and now I'm realizing I need to figure out the name.  Anyways, it was a social stories app where you could make pages in a book and they could flip through it (with affirmations and everything!) as they do the tasks.  There are just TONS of great apps for ADHD/ASD.  

 

My dd's writing exploded when I finally got her an ipad with a bluetooth keyboard.  It seemed like such a luxury at the time, but these are powerful, powerful tools.  It's just something to look into.

 

On math, the one we always talk about is Ronit Bird.  

[PeterPan]

i Create... Social Skills Stories on the App Store on iTunes

 

Here's that app.  

[SilverMoon]

We have alarms for meds (which coincide with time for meals), and one for drop everything/get jammers on/grab your gear bag.  Count downs were stressful to him as a little kid, and still irritate him as a teen. (He is nearly always the last kid in the water at practice.)

 

If mine was in a B&M he'd barely be scraping by because of his time management. It's not that the actual work takes him longer than other kids. It just takes him extra time to get engaged, and find his way back to it when a squirrel catches his attention in the middle. When he starts something we call attention to the time so he has a reference point for checking his watch.

[...................]

Yes.  Absolutely.  My dd isn't diagnosed (yet) but she cannot transition easily.  She needs many breaks, and she needs extra time built in for her distractions and daydreams. She has a heavy workload with piano and she does a fairly intense math (Horizons), so basically every other subjects is as minimalist as it can be!  And, keeping things social helps.  Sending her off on her own does not produce a whole lot of fruit.  Of course, she can work alone but it's better to do the things we can do together, together.  

 

She uses the Time Timer and the pediatrician is preparing a list of vitamins, minerals, and such for her specific needs (we are blessed enough to have a holistic pediatrician). I also just purchased Accountable Kids, and my dd cannot wait for it to come.  FOr her having a physical tactile card to be moved on the pegboard, is much better than a printed list.  If she does well using Accountable Kids with her chores and routines, then we will consider adding her school subjects to it.  She also needs sunshine, plenty of exercise, and a very very healthy high protein diet.

 

 

[Targhee]

How do you do these?

The cards are just a 5x8" card stock with pictures of the tasks one them. There's a morning routine and a night time routine one for each. My oldest now prefers a list instead of pictures. My middle child likes hers on Velcro so she can pull them off when she's done.

 

Musical timers - I have a few songs the kids know well for various timers (eg one song is 3 minutes, one song is 5 minutes). I use these for short tasks like bathroom break (these can take forever!!) or finishing a problem set. But in the past I had an entire morning playlist with about 5 or 6 songs for their whole routine (20 minutes). The first started with a bugle playing revery and some really upbeat music for waking up the sleepy heads. The last was also upbeat and ended on a solid beat (instead of a fade out). My kids are currently rising at different times for different things, one showers in the AM and others in the PM, and one goes to online class while others are doing routine still, so we no longer blast this musical timer through the house. My oldest has adopted the idea of a musical timer to help her get out of the shower quickly (it used to be a 45-60 minute event!).

 

Visual timers - I use online-stopwatch.com which has different visual timers. We don't use some that are too distracting, but there are many good ones (go to "custom" for more choices). I like the idea shared about dry erase pen on the clock face. I did make sure to get an analog timer for them to better SEE elapsed time. This is a real hard one at our house, and even my over 40 spouse struggles with it (which caused a lot of stress in our marriage until I realized it wasn't that he didn't care about keeping time commitments to me, he really couldn't judge time). I use these for things in the 20 min to an hour range (music practice, independent lesson work, waiting to begin a looked forward to activity, etc).

[MerryAtHope]

The whole idea of elapsed time is difficult for people with ADHD, and for my oldest in particular. Dr Hallowell described it well when he said ADHD people only understand two times, "now, and not-now." This can mean they take for.EV.eR getting things done, and day dreaming, and not realize it.

 

Oh my goodness, this is SO TRUE! (of myself and my two kids, LOL! Only my dh understands time!) I will have to tell him this quote! 

 

 

 

 

Your biggest battle is not solving his problems, because some problems can't be fixed.  The challenge is getting him to accept accommodations, understand himself, and use the tools.  

 

 

YES! Meta-cognition is a huge part of what we've worked on over the years. Love how you put it--the one goal is to get them functional. 

 

 

 

My dd's writing exploded when I finally got her an ipad with a bluetooth keyboard.  It seemed like such a luxury at the time, but these are powerful, powerful tools.  It's just something to look into.

 

 

Interesting, how does this work?

 

My youngest saved up for a Kindle Fire--and then she discovered how to use it to dictate all of her papers (and even add in paragraphing, punctuation etc...) and email them to herself so she can just revise on the computer. It's been a huge time-saver for her.

[Targhee]

Are you doing anything to work on the social and body language, etc? I'm just curious, because maybe you're doing something that would help us. :) I've been looking into RDI, Relationship Development Intervention, which works on non-verbals, which are of course the foundation for the rest.

 

You can do metronome work at home or IM (Interactive Metronome) with an OT. There are the Executive Function Training Workbooks from Linguisystems (now Pro-Ed Inc). There's Cogmed. I'm just curious though about his sense of elapsed time. If that isn't there (or he doesn't yet realize by what percent his sense is typically off), then that alone can cause a huge problem without him even trying to.

 

Your biggest battle is not solving his problems, because some problems can't be fixed. The challenge is getting him to accept accommodations, understand himself, and use the tools. I spent this school year getting my ds an IEP, because in our state we have disability scholarships that require an IEP. One of the amazing things about the process was seeing what someone ELSE could see into my child as possible with a bit of support that *I* could not yet see. My ds is very hard to work with sometimes and it has been really confounding to me how to balance the conflicting advice (tell him what to do, let him follow his passions, cater to the giftedness, remediate the disabilities, etc.). The school's take was a bit different, because they had ONE GOAL: get him functional.

 

And functional in school meant he could self-regulate, know what was coming next, and follow the plan. So they wanted OT to improve self-regulation, and then ANYTHING IT TAKES to improve his ability to follow the plan. And what blew my mind was that they thought he COULD follow the plan! But I dug in on the IEP and read the recommendations and realized just HOW MUCH SUPPORT they were willing to provide to make that happen. I'm up again this morning making more visuals for him. Seriously.

 

So it's not so much whether it's his plan or our plan or a blended plan. These kids are walking entropy, so their plan is going to be random and chaotic. They need support just to implement their own plan, lol.

 

I thought of this last night, and maybe it fits or it doesn't. Have you thought of bringing in some help? Like maybe a teen who would work with some of your youngers or retired grandma who would work with him?

 

You were saying he's struggling with clock faces. We have digital clocks almost everywhere. Actually, if you want a laugh, I have clocks in almost every room of the house because my sense of time is so bad, lol. Clocks in the bathrooms, clocks in closets, clocks in the tv room. Basically from almost anywhere I am, I can see a clock. Because without it I won't know the time, lol. Anyways, I don't think hyper-scheduling is easy to maintain, sigh. Routines and a flow (these are your next 4 activities) work here and end points. That's where those alarms come in. When the alarm goes off, just stop and do what the alarm says, no biggee. You can put all his work onto a loop schedule if you want. That way when the alarm goes off at noon for lunch he can just STOP. Next day he'll just pick back up where he left off in the loop.

I highly suggest a warning alarm (with a different sound) say 5 or 3 minutes before the end alarm, if you aren't using a visual timer. Kids who have difficulty transitioning, or who hyper focus, need both a "heads up" to start disengaging and a "yay, you're almost done!" reminder the finish line is in sight.

[PeterPan]

 

Interesting, how does this work?

 

My youngest saved up for a Kindle Fire--and then she discovered how to use it to dictate all of her papers (and even add in paragraphing, punctuation etc...) and email them to herself so she can just revise on the computer. It's been a huge time-saver for her.

Uh, nothing too mysterious.  Ipad and the wireless bluetooth keyboard Apple sells.  On the ipad you can configure the hard keyboard with a different language from the soft keyboard, so when she types on screen it's QWERTY and when she types on the keyboard it's Dvorak.

 

She uses Inspiration but also a variety of note apps.  I think she especially likes the pretty ones like Paper.

[PeterPan]

I highly suggest a warning alarm (with a different sound) say 5 or 3 minutes before the end alarm, if you aren't using a visual timer. Kids who have difficulty transitioning, or who hyper focus, need both a "heads up" to start disengaging and a "yay, you're almost done!" reminder the finish line is in sight.

Ooo, good point!  I've been doing that with him auditorily.  I give him a 5 minute warning, saying in 5 minutes we're meeting for our Ears and to do everything you need to do to be ready.  I think I found the Time Timer app for his kindle, so if he needs actual work amount timers, that's what we'll use.  

[Love_to_Read]

Oh my goodness, this is SO TRUE! (of myself and my two kids, LOL! Only my dh understands time!) I will have to tell him this quote! 

 

 

 

YES! Meta-cognition is a huge part of what we've worked on over the years. Love how you put it--the one goal is to get them functional. 

 

 

Interesting, how does this work?

 

My youngest saved up for a Kindle Fire--and then she discovered how to use it to dictate all of her papers (and even add in paragraphing, punctuation etc...) and email them to herself so she can just revise on the computer. It's been a huge time-saver for her.

 

Oh!

Can I ask what she uses on the Fire for that?  We have a Kindle Fire instead of an iPad, and I was just gearing up to figure out what kind of apps or software we need to start doing this.  So far, we've tried the Windows speech-to-text on the laptop with rather ridiculous results no matter whether I use the built-in mic or an external mic.  If the Kindle does it more functionally, that would be awesome. 

[lovinmomma]

It's hard to tell whether what you're describing with his morning routine is due to sequencing issues (something a visual schedule could help), dawdling (something a timer on an ipod, ipad mini, or kindle could help), or that he wakes slowly.  When is he taking the meds in this and how long are they taking to kick in?  My dd doesn't take meds, but I've read of some people rising an hour early, taking their meds, then going back to bed or reading or something for an hour to let the meds kick in before they attempt their routine.  I know my dd has always had a shockingly slow rise time.  I finally found an answer (the foggy brain waves go even foggier in the night, so she has a hard time coming out).  Our compromise has always been to plan on it and stay apart for 1 1/2-2 hours in the morning.  Yes, that makes for a late start time.  I'm watching to see if the neurofeedback we're doing changes it.

 

You seem to have a lot of separate subjects which, as Merry already pointed out, is pretty odd considering his transition issues.  You might try for 4 subjects a day, clear written expectations (checklist that he can do completely independently), axe everything with his siblings (gifted 6th grader with 2nd grader???), and have check-in points.

 

Where is his reading??  How much does he read each day?  Does he read comfortably or is it crunchy for him?  If it's comfortable, I'd be expecting to see 1-2 hours a day of reading.  If you have a gifted child and you give them that SPACE to read, then you decrease their other work.  I'd chop out half that work (I'm not joking), get it down to 3-4 hours a day MAX, and that leaves him the 1-2 hours a day he needs to read.  Reading what intellectually stimulates him will do more for his SAT/ACT scores than anything you're attempting to teach him, and in a few years that's what you'll be caring about, those test scores.  Let him read.

 

Where is his passion?  Is he doing anything each day to pursue his passion?  He should have 1-2 hours a day to pursue his passion and have ENERGY to do it.  If he does 6 hours a day with you formally and does 1-2 hours a day of reading and cello and sports and... there's nothing left for a passion.  THIS is the time when you want to let him explore passions!  He's just now getting old enough to explore them with vigor and really get into them.  You really want to let him do this.  It's another reason to get his formal academics down to 3-4 hours a day.

 

I've tried, for a number of years now, to ballpark my dd's formal assigned school work in the 3-4 hour a day range.  I find that it's her balance for getting work done and having energy leftover for her reading and for her passions.  I caution you against relying too much on formally assigned work.  It's going to be your *least* effective route oftentimes with these kids.  The things they do with PASSION will be the things where they are most engaged.

 

Some kids do not like how they feel on the meds and find they dampen their creativity.  I'm not making a judgment, just pointing out that if that is the case you might consider a 4 hour med.  That way he could have the tool to do his sit down work (that 3-4 hours we were talking about) and then have the afternoon without meds for his passion and creativity stuff.  Just something to consider.  

 

You mentioned ADHD kids being slower to mature, but the question is whether you're talking EF (executive function), socially, or what.  The social delay is present in some kids and not others.  The EF delay is part of what defines the ADHD.  EF issues respond well to structure.  You said you don't want to have to check on him, but to get the self-monitoring you're wanting you have to create structure.  For instance, the karate class my ds just started sends everyone home with a checklist they fill out each night asking questions like did you make your bed, did you show respect to your family, did you do your homework, etc. etc.  This self-evaluation and self-monitoring and the process of having them hold a thought from one day to the next is all EF.  Karate is one giant EF program, hehe, very impressive.  

 

You'll get what you instruct him in and you'll get what you inspect.  What *can* bump EF is metronome work and cognitive therapy, anything that works on the EF portion of the brain.  So, for instance, you could drop meds, do Cogmed, and you might get an EF bump that carries over into real life.  (I'm suggesting you drop the meds while doing the Cogmed because I'm seeing stories where they didn't and didn't get excellent results on the Cogmed, where people usually do.)  So sometimes cognitive therapies can help bring those skills in and get the bump.  Sometimes the issue, and I'm being honest here, is lack of motivation.  You put a GIFTED ADHD dc in a situation where he's bored, doing lots of spiral stuff, waiting around for mom, doing classes with his siblings, spending all day, has no hope to get to do anything with passion, and no he's not going to do the mature thing and show up psyched to work, lol.  And maybe that's not your situation.  I'm just saying how MY dd is.  My dd's mind is like that, just very emotional and given to de-motivation.  I don't think having a passion solves EVERYTHING, because they're still inefficient, etc. etc.  I'm just saying you could be seeing part of it.  ADHD is statistically connected to depression, and we need to be cognizant of this.  We don't want them in a constant state of de-motivation.   :(  We need to be brave enough to make radical changes that break the de-motivation cycle.  

 

Ok, now I'll ask, not meaning to be impolite.  Your sig says you pulled him out of school mid-year.  What was going on and is that issue resolved?  I'm just thinking stuff at school will happen at home if the underlying issue wasn't changed.  

 

You mentioned math issues.  How big was the discrepancy between IQ and achievement?  You can get to an SLD diagnosis via discrepancy.  My dd's math facts were crunchy for a long time and her low processing speed compounded it.  With ds I'm using Ronit Bird materials and the Fast Facts Math app.

 

Wow. This post is going to help me SO much with my DS, and my DDs, too. Thank you!

[lovinmomma]

 

My youngest saved up for a Kindle Fire--and then she discovered how to use it to dictate all of her papers (and even add in paragraphing, punctuation etc...) and email them to herself so she can just revise on the computer. It's been a huge time-saver for her.

 

She whaaaat?! That sounds awesome. How does she do that?

[lovinmomma]

I highly suggest a warning alarm (with a different sound) say 5 or 3 minutes before the end alarm, if you aren't using a visual timer. Kids who have difficulty transitioning, or who hyper focus, need both a "heads up" to start disengaging and a "yay, you're almost done!" reminder the finish line is in sight.

 

This x1000 my kiddos would certainly need a warning timer. Mine would need a 10 min, 3 min, and 1 min. Haha! But really. :)

[Tiramisu]

This x1000 my kiddos would certainly need a warning timer. Mine would need a 10 min, 3 min, and 1 min. Haha! But really. :)

 

I have one like that, too. Five minute warnings for thirty minutes and more frequent toward the end. And she still misses the bus.

[lovinmomma]

I have one like that, too. Five minute warnings for thirty minutes and more frequent toward the end. And she still misses the bus.

Haha! I feel your pain. I have one that I always send to the car 5 or so minutes before everyone else in hopes that she'll be buckled in and ready to go at the same time as my other children. Nope. Still have to wait on her. ;)

[MerryAtHope]

Oh!

Can I ask what she uses on the Fire for that?  We have a Kindle Fire instead of an iPad, and I was just gearing up to figure out what kind of apps or software we need to start doing this.  So far, we've tried the Windows speech-to-text on the laptop with rather ridiculous results no matter whether I use the built-in mic or an external mic.  If the Kindle does it more functionally, that would be awesome. 

 

 

She whaaaat?! That sounds awesome. How does she do that?

 

Sorry to take so long to respond, I was on vacation for a week.

 

Anyway, what she does is use the email function. There's a button with a picture of a microphone--press that and start talking. That's it. You can specify punctuation, paragraph breaks--all kinds of things (I had her try some of the ideas we heard on the Dragon Naturally Speaking commercials, and they seem to work.)

 

It will misunderstand words at times (her science fair report this spring actually had some funny errors!), so you do have to proof it, but for the most part it's worked well, saves her a lot of time, and encourages her to write longer rough drafts. 

 

She emails it to herself, and then copies/pastes it into Word on our computer for editing.