Let's Talk Pre-Algebra

[zenjenn]

I've looked at some of the old threads but I'm still not sure where to go. I have TWO kiddos going into Pre-Algebra next year: a math-accelerated 5th grader and a 7th grader.

 

5th grader (current 4th grader) is using MM 6 right now. I'm thinking of switching her to AoPS of the fall.

 

7th grader (current 6th grader) is using TT7 right now. I'm thinking of switching her to... Chalkdust or Thinkwell. Not sure which.

 

Having two in Pre-Algebra does make wonder. Do I really need 2 different programs? Husband thinks I am underestimating our older child because she has dyslexia/dyscalculia and her struggles with math so far have been related to arithmetic. He is dyslexic too and and had similar struggles with elementary math, but is now a physicist/engineer and believes she will do much better in Pre-Algebra+. I'm on the fence. Maybe she would love AoPS too, but maybe it would be an exercise in frustration. Or maybe she would just move slower than her 'baby' sister leaving her feeling defeated, and thus it might be better to have her in another program.

 

If I do put her in another program, I want to be done with Teaching Textbooks. I do think TT has been great for her so far because of the arithmetic struggles - she was able to get immediate feedback on each problem as she went along, which was invaluable for a struggling kid making frequent arithmetic errors. But the format is certainly a little spoon-feedy.. and I'd like to break her out of that formula now that she'll be in 7th grade.

 

Older girl is more is more of an audio-visual learner so I was also thinking moving her to something where there is a traditional lecture with problem sets might make Chalkdust or Thinkwell work well for her.

 

Would love your thoughts on any or all of these programs for the situation described or to hear about any of your experiences!

[SilverMoon]

I vote for two different programs. In my house the younger would have flown by the older, and the older (who struggled) would have taken this so personally that he'd want to just give up trying to wrap his brain around variables. My oldest two DC also got to prealg around the same time. Having them in different books let the little one soar without having to worry about the bigger one's feelings, and the bigger one could go at his own speed without feeling like the little one was hot on his heels. They mostly had no idea where the other one really was.  (It was bad enough when they shared a science text.)

 

I can't help with the actual courses you listed though. If you do Chalkdust be sure to search here for how to get the "generic" Chalkdust much more inexpensively. To find more reviews for them here use Google instead of the board search. Set it to search just this site by using - thinkwell prealgebra site:forums.welltrainedmind.com - for example.

[Farrar]

I can't imagine doing the same program with two kids who sound so different. I also don't think it means you're underestimating your older dd if you choose a different program that's right for her.

 

We're using Jousting Armadillos. There's a good bit of writing in it (something you really only notice maybe if you're doing it with a kid who's not so hot with writing) but as such I wouldn't think it would automatically be a good pick for a kid with dyslexia. I have Dolciani waiting in the wings for my other kid... maybe. We'll see when he gets there.

[dereksurfs]

To have 'one' Pre-A that works for them both you would need a solid program that is not overwhelming for the older.  While this may not be impossible it does sound like a much taller order than tailoring a program for each dd depending on how she learns best.  For the older, especially, you may need to try a few things out first to gain a better sense of best fit for her learning style.

 

What I recommend doing is starting earlier, even now, introducing them to a few programs to gauge how they might work out.  Most programs have samples including AoPS.  This can be fun for a child as they get to try out advanced 'big kid' stuff even if its only one day a week in the beginning.  We did that with ds13 while in 5th grade as he was finishing up primary math.  It gave him something to look forward to as well as a break from his normal math duties.  

 

AoPS has Alcumus which you could take for a test run with them.  They also have videos which are very good and correspond to the chapters in the book.  For the older, AoPS would be a huge leap from TT and not likely a good fit.  But it may work out for the younger.  Just keep in mind that AoPS readiness goes beyond algebraic reasoning readiness. Our ds tried it earlier on and didn't like.  Then a year later he did after another Pre-A and we went through Intro to Algebra.

 

For the older you may want to consider a 'live' online class like this one at Wilson Hill Academy.  The courses are very interactive providing the student plenty of visual and auditory cues with immediate feedback available via online discussions and chat features.  Our son really thrives in this kind of learning environment which we discovered this year.  Some things like this you will not really know until you try them out.  Although he liked AoPS he really prefers the interaction of live classes.  It also helped him greatly in working on time management skills.  We've also used and liked TabletClass Pre-A which is very good online math program.  It is rigorous which may be a bit too challenging for some.  We used it to prepare for AoPS Intro to Algebra and it worked out well for ds13.  

 

The bottom line is that you will hear about many programs which may sound like potential fits.  But ultimately you will have to test out the waters to really determine what will work best.  So the earlier you start exploring these various options with your dds the better, IMO.  Just be willing to make course corrections if need be as each child is so different.  That is one of the great benefits of homeschooling.  You can tailor math to the individual child's needs.

[FriedClams]

I would use two programs because you have two very different kids with very different needs. It's not an ego thing, it's helping each kid to learn in the way that suits them.

[yvonne]

You might want to search for TT posts. I know there are some here who have used it through pre-calc and been happy with it. I think there are even a couple students who used it and went on to STEM studies in college. Spoon-feedy can be good for someone who struggles with a subject. It helps to get that immediate feedback.

 

My daughter is a humanities girl, not at all mathy. She's done really well this year with Dolciani's Pre-Algebra: An Accelerated Approach.

 

It was super easy for me to teach.  Each lesson is a good, one-day size bite, not too much, not too little. I didn't have to think about how to schedule it; it was just open and do the next lesson. 

 

Here's what we did.... I went over the main concept of the lesson with her. We worked the example problems together (before looking at how they were done in the text.) I had her do all the "Class Exercises" orally/on a whiteboard with me. Then she did the odd numbered problems. If it was a tough lesson, I'd have her tell me the answers as she got them so that we could immediately address any errors/misunderstandings. This was so key for her. When I was lazy and didn't do this, she'd end up with a whole lesson of wrong answers to redo & correct. Not only was this a terrible, avoidable burden, but she'd gotten some wrong idea or method engrained in her head that took forever to undo.

 

My daughter's math skills have really been shored up this year, and she's actually thinking that she might be "good at" math. :)  She'll never be a math person, but at least it isn't impossibly painful.  She does still have trouble w/ negative numbers, so I'm having her do some of the specific sections of Math Mammoth that deal with those. I'll also have her work through some of the Keys to Algebra workbooks over the summer so that she'll be ready for Algebra I in the fall.

 

She would never have done well with an independent, video- or computer-based instruction program like Thinkwell or Chalkdust. She likes to talk & interact. She's not really interested in math and lacks the internal interest and drive to push herself through watching a video and doing problems on her own.

 

Wilson Hill offers an online class that meets live for three hours/week using the Dolciani Pre-Algebra text that might be a good alternative to a video-based program, but, as I mentioned, it's a pretty easy, direct text to teach, if you have the time.

[Pen]

Well, I'll be different.  I vote for getting AoPS if you think either child might end up doing well with it, and trying it for both to start, or trying Jousting Armadillos with both to start (especially since it is suited to group use).

 

If AoPS, I'd probably let the older look at it before next year to decide if it is going to be great or an exercise in frustration.