Wind-in-my-hair Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I am reading through The Writing Road to Reading, 4th Ed., and planning to follow this approach until my son is reading and spelling well. 1. I am wondering whether I should use the recommended reading comprehension tests available for purchase, or if it would be enough simply to do the spelling notebook as described along with the oral reading she describes. 2. I am also wondering what other supplemental materials, besides the phonogram flash cards and spelling journal, might be worth purchasing from the Spalding website. Are the grammar rule cards nice to have, for example? Can I really manage without many of the extras? 3. Also, my understanding is that the Spalding approach can be used between grades 1-6, or later for remediation, but I also believe I have read on these forums that it can be completed in just one year for the ready student. I want to use it for early intervention through mastery, so I expect I will use it for about 3 or 4 years, or more? 4. This is what I was thinking for grammar: Ms Spalding says to teach grammar in grade 6, as well as any grammar that comes up in the writing process in the earlier grades. I thought I'd actually use English for the Thoughtful Child in the early years. But what is your favorite grammar for grade 6 so that I might plan ahead or begin that program early? 5. My last question is, what language arts or spelling program do you like to switch to when Spalding is completed? I was thinking about just going straight into a Latin centered vocabulary in the middle grades. Or perhaps try Sequential Spelling? I am just gathering ideas. Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I am reading through The Writing Road to Reading, 4th Ed., and planning to follow this approach until my son is reading and spelling well. 1. I am wondering whether I should use the recommended reading comprehension tests available for purchase, or if it would be enough simply to do the spelling notebook as described along with the oral reading she describes. You don't have to have those, but if you wanted to do them, it wouldn't hurt. 2. I am also wondering what other supplemental materials, besides the phonogram flash cards and spelling journal, might be worth purchasing from the Spalding website. Are the grammar rule cards nice to have, for example? Can I really manage without many of the extras? Although Spalding can be grammar and composition, most of us like to do something different, if for no other reason than to have a change of pace. So I'd say no, just the phonogram cards and a spelling notebook are all you need (Spalding says spelling *notebook,* not spelling *journal.* Some of the spin-offs say "journal." 3. Also, my understanding is that the Spalding approach can be used between grades 1-6, or later for remediation, but I also believe I have read on these forums that it can be completed in just one year for the ready student. I want to use it for early intervention through mastery, so I expect I will use it for about 3 or 4 years, or more? You can do Spalding as long as you need it. It's good to do it until your dc is old enough to do the spelling notebook with the rule pages (which is first done when the dc are 8yo, or "third grade"). Your dc might not need to do it longer than that. Remember that Mrs. Spalding wrote the manual with the thought that Spalding would be taught in classrooms, and in a classroom situation, you never know for sure what the students did last year or what they'll do next, so you have to repeat multiple times to make sure all of the children get all they need. Homeschoolers might not need that much Spalding. 4. This is what I was thinking for grammar: Ms Spalding says to teach grammar in grade 6, as well as any grammar that comes up in the writing process in the earlier grades. I thought I'd actually use English for the Thoughtful Child in the early years. But what is your favorite grammar for grade 6 so that I might plan ahead or begin that program early? I don't think of which *grades* I do grammar but what ages. :-) So I teach grammar to dc when they are 10ish (or reading well), and I use Easy Grammar. 5. My last question is, what language arts or spelling program do you like to switch to when Spalding is completed? I was thinking about just going straight into a Latin centered vocabulary in the middle grades. Or perhaps try Sequential Spelling? Spelling, grammar, composition, vocabulary, literature, penmanship--all of these are "language arts." :-) If your dc completes a couple of years of Spalding, there is no reason to do spelling again, certainly not Sequential Spelling. Moving to vocabulary instead of spelling is appropriate. I have considered going to Spelling by Sound and Structure, however, purely because of the activities, not because of the spelling (I disagree with some of the things it teaches, because it disagrees with Spalding). SSS teaches dictionary skills, etymologies, and usage, for example. I am just gathering ideas. Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wind-in-my-hair Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Thanks for the suggestions, Ellie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wind-in-my-hair Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 One more thing about Spalding: Spalding is notorious for annoying people with the insistence on NOT teaching the dipthong/ long-e sounds of i and y. However I don't have a problem with it as long as she does (and she does) include the long-e sound of the phonogram "ie" (and she does). We have a German surname with that sound, our town name has that sound. Our baby's name includes "ier" as "yer" or "ee-er" not "eer" or (short i) "i-er." Also, my sister's name is Amy which is a varied spelling from Amie, the latter of which would have the long-e. I am just going to teach that we pronounce these sounds as short-i, when we think of them for spelling, and it is because of the natural flow of speech that they lengthen into a long-e sound. After all, Noah Webster described how in fact the vowel sound we call short-e is actually an abrupted long-a sound in speech, and the short-i is the same thing to long-e: a shortened vocalization of the same form of sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 One more thing about Spalding: Spalding is notorious for annoying people with the insistence on NOT teaching the dipthong/ long-e sounds of i and y. However I don't have a problem with it as long as she does (and she does) include the long-e sound of the phonogram "ie" (and she does). We have a German surname with that sound, our town name has that sound. Our baby's name includes "ier" as "yer" or "ee-er" not "eer" or (short i) "i-er." Also, my sister's name is Amy which is a varied spelling from Amie, the latter of which would have the long-e. I am just going to teach that we pronounce these sounds as short-i, when we think of them for spelling, and it is because of the natural flow of speech that they lengthen into a long-e sound. After all, Noah Webster described how in fact the vowel sound we call short-e is actually an abrupted long-a sound in speech, and the short-i is the same thing to long-e: a shortened vocalization of the same form of sound. :cheers2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nannyaunt Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Ok, this is an area where I am really confused. I would pronounce Amy as A (long a) Me (long e). We say happy as hap (short a) pee (long e). From what I am understanding though, it should be A (long a) mi (short i)? Or hap (short a) pi (short i)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Ok, this is an area where I am really confused. I would pronounce Amy as A (long a) Me (long e). We say happy as hap (short a) pee (long e). From what I am understanding though, it should be A (long a) mi (short i)? Or hap (short a) pi (short i)? Yes, that is correct. We teach to spell, because if we go purely on how we pronounce things, words would be spelled differently in Brooklyn than they are in Atlanta than they are in North Dakota. :-) There really are people who pronounce that final "y" as /i/ and not /ee/. But one of the reasons Spalding teaches the that y says /i/ and not /ee/ is to help children remember to use the y at the end of a word and not e. This is from Spalding's site: Why are baby and other words pronounced with the first (short) sound of i when most people say the second (long) sound of e? A. The Spalding Method teaches children to analyze the written spelling of words. Spelling has remained relatively constant over the years while pronunciations vary among geographical regions and countries. In the English spelling system y and i are used interchangeably, but y and e are not. For example, in the words gym, rhythm, system, we use y to represent the first sound of i. When teaching children to spell, pronouncing the word ba by (short i), helps them to write y, not e. Note that the accent is on the Q first syllable. When reading the word for speaking, you have a choice: have children pronounce the word as spoken in your region or maintain the original pronunciation which is consistent with the spelling. Children have no problem with the difference. They understand that pronouncing words two ways helps them spell and read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in CA Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Ok, this is an area where I am really confused. I would pronounce Amy as A (long a) Me (long e). We say happy as hap (short a) pee (long e). From what I am understanding though, it should be A (long a) mi (short i)? Or hap (short a) pi (short i)? That is weird, and I would be among those who would be annoyed by it if we used Spalding. The phonics and phonetic spelling programs we use teach that "e" is silent at the ends of words so "y" stands in for it and makes the long e sound, which makes a lot more sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 That is weird, and I would be among those who would be annoyed by it if we used Spalding. The phonics and phonetic spelling programs we use teach that "e" is silent at the ends of words so "y" stands in for it and makes the long e sound, which makes a lot more sense to me. And that's a weird way to teach the use of "y" at the end of a word. :blink: Spalding teaches 5 reasons for final silent e: to help a single vowel say its second (or "long") sound (as in "time"); that English words don't end with u or v, so we use e (as in "have" or "blue"); to help c and g say their second sounds (as in "chance" and "charge"); that every syllable in English words must have a vowel even though a vowel isn't needed to make a sound, so we use e (as in "little"); and the no-job e (as in "house" or "are"). Apparently, in Mrs. Spalding's vast experience, she found that teaching the sound of y as /i/ and not /ee/ produced more successful spellers. I am willing to go with her experience. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in CA Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's not weird if multiple curricula teach the same thing, and Mrs. Spalding is the only one who has vast amounts of experience ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's not weird if multiple curricula teach the same thing, and Mrs. Spalding is the only one who has vast amounts of experience ;) It is weird. :-) Which other methods teach that? And it's still weird. Possibly it is that the Spalding Method teaches children to read by teaching them to spell, and is not actually phonics at all (spelling and phonics are not the same thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in CA Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It is weird. :-) Which other methods teach that? And it's still weird. Possibly it is that the Spalding Method teaches children to read by teaching them to spell, and is not actually phonics at all (spelling and phonics are not the same thing). We'll have to agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nannyaunt Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Well, I think it will take a while to wrap my mind around it, but I have decided to give Spalding a good effort and that means following even when it doesn't seem to make sense. I will give it a year and then get back to you on it :). Unless I suddenly get an Aha! moment before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The short i sound was the most commonly used sound in dictionaries for a long time, especially the dictionaries used in the public schools. All the readers and even the science books used the short i sound. Check out the McGuffey readers. I have not seen one pre-1940s public school textbook using anything but a short i sound. The dictionaries used in the public schools changed more than speech changed. Once the dictionaries changed, the phonics instruction quickly followed suit. Romalda Spalding was less quick to change what was working so well. Phonics is less precise and fluid that people want to believe. Choose a phonics program and a dictionary, and use them as written, or you are going to make a mess of things, you won't fully understand until you get to the advanced lessons. Pronunciation of English is not the same around the country and around the world. You will never find a phonics program or dictionary that matches your speech. It doesn't matter! You teach the child that there are regional differences, and that their speech is not always going to match the speech of other people or all books. I don't discard a good program just because MY accent don't match precisely. My accent has changed drastically as I have moved around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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