Mike in SA Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 It may make more sense to post here... Anyone have any ideas? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/535250-chemistry-mit-ocw-vs-ap/ Does anyone have experience using MIT-OCW for Chemistry? We would like to know how its depth compares to an AP-level course. DS has a solid high school level background, and has a very particular learning style, where he needs to learn at extreme depth, and then back off and solidify. He becomes twitchy if the depth is not fairly extreme. What we are hoping for is to have a very deep overview (less the calculus problems), better than what he got through McMurry Fay. Then, come back to get the little details. He loves MIT-OCW for biology, because it is hard. Is chemistry comparable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in Richmond Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 We don't have direct experience with the OCW version of the course, but my son took 5.111 chemistry on MIT's campus as a freshman. He'd already aced AP Chemistry in high school using Zumdahl, but MIT requires chem of all students, and you can't use an AP score to get an exemption. According to him, the course was slightly harder than AP chem, but not significantly so. It was a little more in depth, including molecular orbital theory & a few other topics beyond the AP course description. The problem sets were more difficult than those he'd completed in high school (no calculus required). I'm not familiar with McMurry Fay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerileanne99 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 It may make more sense to post here... Anyone have any ideas? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/535250-chemistry-mit-ocw-vs-ap/ Does anyone have experience using MIT-OCW for Chemistry? We would like to know how its depth compares to an AP-level course. DS has a solid high school level background, and has a very particular learning style, where he needs to learn at extreme depth, and then back off and solidify. He becomes twitchy if the depth is not fairly extreme. What we are hoping for is to have a very deep overview (less the calculus problems), better than what he got through McMurry Fay. Then, come back to get the little details. He loves MIT-OCW for biology, because it is hard. Is chemistry comparable? I just asked hubby, who teaches chemistry at Uni level, his opinion. He has used quite a bit of the MIT-OCW series for gen chem and organic chem... In his opinion (and mine, I have a chem degree as well) it would be quite a challenging AP level class, but definitely feasible. Especially with a good math background. In his experience, since not all AP-level classes are equal, most students who come to his classes after AP Chem tend to do well 1st semester. That is more ideas, memorization, and such. The material in the MIT coursework really likes application, and 2nd semester material is included on things like MO theory, acid/base/buffer chem and more. It is also integrated, which really helps to challenge a student to think deeper. Definitely the difference between a run of the mill AP class and an excellent one. If you have specific questions he is happy to try to help answer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in SA Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 I appreciate the feedback. It sounds like our best bet for now. He really enjoys biochemistry, and the textbook (Chemical Principles) is heavier on organic than other texts I've seen, and it thankfully puts the better part of high school chemistry in the forward, so it doesn't consume unnecessary course time. Neither DW nor I did a whole lot of chemistry, so biochemistry is reaching out of our comfort zone. Any thoughts on next steps to really understand biochemistry? We aren't worried about grades right now (he's only 12) -- he just wants to learn this stuff, and appears to have quite a talent for it. Are there particular organic chemistry + biochemistry texts/authors to look for? (side note: we might start auditing at the college in a couple of years, but not quite yet) If it helps, he really likes the style of Campbell Reece Biology... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Depending on his learning style, MolyMods are quite helpful for some in the advanced biochem stuff. My son is visual spacial/ kinesthetic and they were definitely what got him over more than a couple hurdles. They are basically molecular Legos, but they have specific sets for bio and organic chem. Amazon carries stacks of them, but the website is the best for trying to figure out which set you want. The company does not do much individual distribution, so unless you know of a school you can piggyback order from it can be hard to get them from the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerileanne99 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I think Zumdahl's book does a fantastic job of pulling in more organic material into gen chem:) If Biochemistry is where his primary interests lie, I definitely think you are on the right track. The MIT coursework will set him up very nicely for organic chem, which they also offer. There is a reason why o. Chem is a prerequisite for biochem classes. Really, biochem is simply a much more focused area of organic. It is all about understanding how and where the electrons are going, lol. In fact, my biochem classes were very nearly duplicates of my biology cell physiology courses...except that I enjoyed the biochem more because I felt it was much more detail oriented. I will ask hubby tomorrow if there is a specific textbook he would recommend for your situation as he is definitely more up to date on specific textbooks. The department just spent six months choosing a new organic textbook and argued over every possibility:) In the meantime, I am remembering a really fun mini-text that was basically centered around applying basic gen chem and o chem functional group knowledge to amino acids. They were problems that really made you think and were a fun way to start thinking in terms of applying general knowledge to biological systems. It was an older publication from one of my profs, so I shall try to track it down. I think it would be right up his alley, from the sounds of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in SA Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Depending on his learning style, MolyMods are quite helpful for some in the advanced biochem stuff. My son is visual spacial/ kinesthetic and they were definitely what got him over more than a couple hurdles. They are basically molecular Legos, but they have specific sets for bio and organic chem. Amazon carries stacks of them, but the website is the best for trying to figure out which set you want. The company does not do much individual distribution, so unless you know of a school you can piggyback order from it can be hard to get them from the company. Yep, we have a huge set. Both of our kids love them. :) I think Zumdahl's book does a fantastic job of pulling in more organic material into gen chem:) If Biochemistry is where his primary interests lie, I definitely think you are on the right track. The MIT coursework will set him up very nicely for organic chem, which they also offer. There is a reason why o. Chem is a prerequisite for biochem classes. Really, biochem is simply a much more focused area of organic. It is all about understanding how and where the electrons are going, lol. In fact, my biochem classes were very nearly duplicates of my biology cell physiology courses...except that I enjoyed the biochem more because I felt it was much more detail oriented. I will ask hubby tomorrow if there is a specific textbook he would recommend for your situation as he is definitely more up to date on specific textbooks. The department just spent six months choosing a new organic textbook and argued over every possibility:) In the meantime, I am remembering a really fun mini-text that was basically centered around applying basic gen chem and o chem functional group knowledge to amino acids. They were problems that really made you think and were a fun way to start thinking in terms of applying general knowledge to biological systems. It was an older publication from one of my profs, so I shall try to track it down. I think it would be right up his alley, from the sounds of it. Very much appreciated! Physics, Math -- we know the good authors there. Bio and Organic? Not so much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Depending on his learning style, MolyMods are quite helpful for some in the advanced biochem stuff. My son is visual spacial/ kinesthetic and they were definitely what got him over more than a couple hurdles. They are basically molecular Legos, but they have specific sets for bio and organic chem. Amazon carries stacks of them, but the website is the best for trying to figure out which set you want. The company does not do much individual distribution, so unless you know of a school you can piggyback order from it can be hard to get them from the company. How are these different from the usual model set? We have tons of various model sets, including giant wood ones that I played with when I was a preschooler that my father saved when the college replaced them, and DD has inherited, plus tons of plastic ones and smaller ones, including specialty sets for bio-chem and o-chem. (DD also has geology kits from the same source that are so old that they contain asbestos. The uranium sample had been removed before we got it, though, which annoyed her.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 How are these different from the usual model set? We have tons of various model sets, including giant wood ones that I played with when I was a preschooler that my father saved when the college replaced them, and DD has inherited, plus tons of plastic ones and smaller ones, including specialty sets for bio-chem and o-chem. (DD also has geology kits from the same source that are so old that they contain asbestos. The uranium sample had been removed before we got it, though, which annoyed her.) If you already have a ball and stick model set, then they might not be worth the expense. However, in some instances they are a step up in what they can illustrate. They also have sets which work with DNA/RNA, Orbitals, Inorganic and Organic Chem, as well as specifics for BioChemistry. Some sets do not cover all those. Here is a blurb from their website so I can be lazy and do not have to type it all out: :D Hydrogen - H - White Carbon - C - Black Oxygen - O - Red Nitrogen - N - Blue Sulphur - S - Yellow Phosphorus - P - Purple Fluorine - F - Light green Chlorine - Cl - Green Bromine - Br - Orange Iodine - I - Violet Boron - B - Beige Metals - Be, Si, Al - Grey Scales: Open/Ball & Stick 2.5 cm per Angstrom Closed/semi-space-filling 1.5 cm per Angstrom Atom-parts: Range from 17 mm to 23 mm diameter Bonds: Single bonds are represented by medium links (19 mm) and multiple bonds by longer, flexible links (30 mm). For compact models, bonds are represented by short links (2 mm). Valence: Represented by the number of holes: 1-hole (l); 2-hole (ll); 3-hole (lll); 4-hole (lV); 5-hole (V); 6-hole (Vl) molymod® hydrogen types Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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