Christmas puppy help

[Spy Car]

We used Craigslist to find a rescue event at a local pet store. A couple litters had been flown into town to be adopted. At 12 weeks old, they had already been spayed/neutered and had their first 2 sets of shots, plus deworming & microchip. The $250 fee felt very reasonable. The downside is that we don't have any history other than it's probably a lab mix. I'm sure it wasn't intentionally bred because there is no market for puppies in the village and they were shipped out before they were shot or drowned. Our puppy joins a 4-5 year old Husky mix who is wonderful with her. She tolerates a lot but then puts the puppy in her place when she's gone too far. I can't imagine two puppies - that would just be pure craziness as there would be no "good example."

 

 

Removing a canine's vital hormone producing organs at 12 weeks is a highly-destructive act that I hope people will eventually come to realize is detrimental to normal development and long term canine health.

 

Radical groups have successfully shaped public opinion to make it seem like removing testes and ovaries in 12 (or even 8 week) old puppies is "normal" and/or a "good thing" when it manifestly not the case. 

 

Bill

[Ellie]

I did read it and I agree that the fashion for crosses between poodles and labs has led to some really nasty behaviour. But I just don't see why it seems to upset some people so much that an honest attempt might be made now, as in the past, to work out a new breed.

 

The reason it upsets *me* is that any mixed breed dog is a mutt, and people are purposely breeding mutts and charging pure-bred dog prices. Of course, buyers should be better informed, but that doesn't excuse the breeders.

[Ellie]

Removing a canine's vital hormone producing organs at 12 weeks is a highly-destructive act that I hope people will eventually come to realize is detrimental to normal development and long term canine health.

 

Radical groups have successfully shaped public opinion to make it seem like removing testes and ovaries in 12 (or even 8 week) old puppies is "normal" and/or a "good thing" when it manifestly not the case. 

 

Bill

 

THANK YOU!

[hornblower]

Bill & I disagree on this.  In animal welfare, it's a risk benefit analysis. It's way riskier in my books to adopt out an unaltered pup & I will not support any rescue group which adopts out unaltered dogs. It's just not feasible for us to have a volunteer to track down people & make sure they've done the s/n & try to enforce contracts etc.

FWIW, the AVMA supports pediatric s/n.

But I know lots of people with large breed dogs which they've acquired from reputable breeders & I understand why they'd make the decision to wait longer in those cases.  I also know people in Europe who never s/n & who don't have oopsie litters. Responsible owners are responsible owners. Sadly, we need to deal with the irresponsible group.  Unaltered pets roaming, and ooopsie litters (especially among cats) are a huge source of the animals that end up in shelters, & end up being cuddled by some volunteer while being put to sleep.

I think some of the most interesting new stuff will be alternatives to castration. We have a procedure now for male dogs which is similar to a vasectomy. There's also a pilot program being run on northern dogs where the females are given a hormonal birth control through a long lasting injection.


For more on pediatric s/n, incl the 'golden retriever' study which got people talking this summer, this page has a whole bunch of info & references.
http://www.columbusdogconnection.com/PedSpayNeuter.htm

[Spy Car]

Bill & I disagree on this. In animal welfare, it's a risk benefit analysis. It's way riskier in my books to adopt out an unaltered pup & I will not support any rescue group which adopts out unaltered dogs. It's just not feasible for us to have a volunteer to track down people & make sure they've done the s/n & try to enforce contracts etc.

I understand the perspective of those who work in rescue and see first hand on a regular basis the tragic deaths of dogs due to the irresponsibility of people. This does not change the fact that neutering a puppy is bad for that individual animal's health. Spaying and neutering puppies is a radical act. I understand that many people find it justified, but it is not in the best interest of the canine that is denaturalized in infancy.

 

FWIW, the AVMA supports pediatric s/n.

Lots of organizations support (and even push for Manditory Spay Neuter laws) when it is clear those policies are detrimental to the animals in question.

 

But I know lots of people with large breed dogs which they've acquired from reputable breeders & I understand why they'd make the decision to wait longer in those cases. I also know people in Europe who never s/n & who don't have oopsie litters. Responsible owners are responsible owners. Sadly, we need to deal with the irresponsible group. Unaltered pets roaming, and ooopsie litters (especially among cats) are a huge source of the animals that end up in shelters, & end up being cuddled by some volunteer while being put to sleep.

Responsible owners often make the decision to wait (or avoid entirely) neutering dogs until fully developed because they know that the rates of hip-dysphasia, obesity, and many cancers are much higher in neutered dogs. And to castrate puppies at 8 or 12 weeks or 16 weeks is a cruel price animals are paying for human irresponsibility.

 

Hormones in canines, just as in people, are intrinsically tied into normal patterns of development. You can't just remove them in infancy and think you've not done significant harm.

 

I understand the impact of seeing "unwanted" animals being put to death. It is a horrible thing. But pediatric castration is a barbaric solution to a grievous problem.

 

I think some of the most interesting new stuff will be alternatives to castration. We have a procedure now for male dogs which is similar to a vasectomy. There's also a pilot program being run on northern dogs where the females are given a hormonal birth control through a long lasting injection.

 

For more on pediatric s/n, incl the 'golden retriever' study which got people talking this summer, this page has a whole bunch of info & references.

http://www.columbusdogconnection.com/PedSpayNeuter.htm

There is no reason male dogs could not get vasectomies now. It is not an "exotic" operation. It would spare dogs from the loss of hormones, while eliminating the chances of reproduction. there are also (from what I understand) procedures that spare the ovaries in females. Unfortunately these far more humane alternative are opposed by the radical so-called "animal rights" groups and are not allowed under many Mandatory Spay Neuter laws that demand full denaturing of animals, when more humane alternative exist. It is a sad stae of affairs. I think we will one day look back on current spay/neuter policies with a sense of deep shame.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

For more on pediatric s/n, incl the 'golden retriever' study which got people talking this summer, this page has a whole bunch of info & references.

http://www.columbusdogconnection.com/PedSpayNeuter.htm

Oy gevalt!

 

I just started reading the linked page, and this Tracy Land is one twisted sister.

 

Her agenda?

 

I for one believe that all animals should be spayed/neutered before purchase or adoption unless they are going to a reputable breeder. NO EXCEPTIONS. - If the animal is old enough to be purchased/adopted it is old enough to be spayed/neutered.

 

This is the agenda of the radical so-called animal rights organizations. Barebones.

 

The site is dishonest and disingenuous. Recent major studies show multiple negative health consequences to early neutering (despite Tracy Lord claiming otherwise).

 

The recent major Golden Retriever study showed significantly higher rates of hip dysphasia in that breed. This is thought to be linked to the improper closure of bone growth plates (the timing of which is in part controlled by the sex hormones). Dogs neutered early have bones that grow in an abnormal fashion (the same was true in human castrati) and hip dysphasia rates are greatly exacerbated as a result.

 

There was also just a major study of Vizslas (my breed) released by the very highly respected UC Davis Vetinary School that showed much higher cancer rates among neutered dogs. Yet people like Lord will (falsely) claim there is no downside to early castration, no studies that show it (again a falsehood), and then demand that all dogs—even puppies—be subject to manditory surgery.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm appalled.

 

Bill