lovetobehome Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I have switched back and forth between BJU math, Saxon, and Math U See. I need help! We did MUS primer, alpha and beta. THen used BJU 2. Then Saxon 3. Saxon 3 is going pretty well, but I have 5/4 in hand, and the transition looks hard. My sister went through it and still says they are having difficulty. My son is 8.5 and has 40 lessons left in Saxon 3. However, saxon 5/4 looks hard to me.....and lengthy. I need advice. I am tempted to finish 3, then move to MUS Gamma and fly through that and do Delta. I liked MUS a lot, but I was concerned about testing as I had heard some people say MUS doesnt present the variery of subjects on standardized tests, which are required here in my state. I want my son to understand math, and not to hate it! He is gifted, but math is the subject he works the hardest at. WHAT SHOULD I DO??? I know this is an impossible question to ask, but which is better? Are MUS students really and truly prepared well for higher education math? HELP!!! Lost in a pit of math!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Lea Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Are you open to another idea???? Finish Saxon 3, which will take you close to Christmas (depending on when you are starting). At Christmas, Teaching Textbooks is releasing their grade 4 program. My older son struggles greatly with math, but is having GREAT success with TT grade 6. He also loves it!! Just throwing out another idea:) Greta:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I liked MUS a lot, but I was concerned about testing How concerned are you about testing? What happens if your son does not score well in the early years due to the s&s of MUS? Will he be forced into school? Or do you just not want him to test poorly? FWIW, here is my experience with MUS and testing: When my son was about ½ way through Epsilon (5th grade), I had to have him evaluated due to state law. He took the Woodcock Johnson test (national test which only took 30 minutes total), and the results were startling. His math calculation came out upper 8th grade and his math reasoning came out mid 9th grade! It took me a while to understand this. It does not mean that he is doing 8th/9th grade math work. It means that my son, working at 5.5 grade level, does as well as the average 8th/9th grader. When he was ½ way through Zeta (6th grade), he took the Kaufman Test of Educational Achievement and scored post high school in math. Now, YMMV. I have a degree in math and ds is math-oriented. I have a df who's daughter uses MUS and scores a little above grade level. By, 5th/6th grade, the test results should not differ. Are MUS students really and truly prepared well for higher education math? YES! We have used MUS from K and are now in Algebra. Algebra is the last book we'll use because it isn't as rigorous as I want for my math-oriented ds. But Alpha-Zeta are outstanding. After that, there are lots of options. WHAT SHOULD I DO??? I really dislike Saxon. Unless you have a child who enjoys a lot of tedious busy work (I would have when I was a child), I would not use it with them. I think you have a good idea to go back to Gamma, then Delta, and on with MUS. If you are interested, you can see my review in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetobehome Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Sure, open to consider.... I am trying to load TT's demo right now. DH talked with me about this, and we are leaning toward MUS. Anyone? Please? Tell me anything!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractalgal Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I have switched back and forth between BJU math, Saxon, and Math U See. I need help! We did MUS primer, alpha and beta. THen used BJU 2. Then Saxon 3. Saxon 3 is going pretty well, but I have 5/4 in hand, and the transition looks hard. My sister went through it and still says they are having difficulty. My son is 8.5 and has 40 lessons left in Saxon 3. However, saxon 5/4 looks hard to me.....and lengthy. I need advice. I am tempted to finish 3, then move to MUS Gamma and fly through that and do Delta. I liked MUS a lot, but I was concerned about testing as I had heard some people say MUS doesnt present the variery of subjects on standardized tests, which are required here in my state. I want my son to understand math, and not to hate it! He is gifted, but math is the subject he works the hardest at. WHAT SHOULD I DO??? I know this is an impossible question to ask, but which is better? Are MUS students really and truly prepared well for higher education math? HELP!!! Lost in a pit of math!!! I have heard people tell me that their children were not prepared for public school high school math courses using Math U See. I know that a lot of people like this program. I am not here to bash it, nor to say that all students who use MUS will be unprepared. However, I think you should stick with Saxon 5/4. My daughter finished Saxon 3, and she has transitioned nicely to Saxon 5/4. Give it a real try. If after several months its not working, than by all means try something else. If your child did well in Saxon 3, why would he not do well in Saxon 5/4? The way Saxon 5/4 is set up is more closely related to the way I taught Math at the college level. This is good preparation for your child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetobehome Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Oh Sue, I so much appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. I had actually come across your review earlier!!! Here is my dilemma. I LOVED MUS. I grew up in a private school, I struggled in math compared to other subjects....it was my hardest subject, I would get an 89 or a low A each semester. Yeah, I was a bit of a perfectionist, high A's in everything, except math which I just couldnt get as well. I could perform, but I never understood or appreciated it. It was a good school. I tried really hard, I just never GOT it. When I began using MUS a few yrs back with DS, I finally GOT IT. I understood concepts like I never had before. I got excited! I LOVE it. My son, though, struggled. Prob because he was pushed like 2 grade levels ahead. I pushed him too much. But he grew to dislike MUS, so we decided to do another curriculum to shake it up, and start over. That's when we went to BJU. Then I think I went back to use Beta, and then we started saxon 3. That was last january. We got to lesson 99 by June, and quit for the summer (which I will never do again---so much forgotten!). So, last week we started up again with lesson 100, and I see how much he forgot. It is going better now, but still, math just seems to take forever and I long for the old MUS days! But I also worried about rumors of MUS not being rigorous enough, or whatever. Then I read the same about Saxon. Here is what I have heard re both: MUS pro---teaches you to THINK and UNDERSTAND math MUS con--May not cover all concepts, not as broad in the concpts taught? AND testing is irregular bc they DONT teach to the test (in theory I totally agree with this, teaching to the test is insane. But I guess I got prideful and wanted him to score high to prove to the ridiculous state that I am doing a much better job than they do) Saxon pro--reliable, trusted and thorough. Kids test well. Saxon con--teaches steps or memorization, less about comprehension. Time-intensive. So! DH says forget about worrying about the stdized tests, he could care less about that. He says teach for comprehension and dont worry about the rest. He says he hears me saying the only reason I am choosing saxon is FEAR, and he is exactly right. Fear that MUS may not be traditional enough, prepare him well enough, etc. And I agree that fear is not how I should make choices here! So, I looked at reviews and The Old Schoolhouse rates MUS as #1 and Saxon as #2, so I guess both are great. I guess I hear myself saying I want to use MUS, I just need some more reassuring that it is going to teach us well enough that he can excel in whatever career he might choose. As far as day to day use, my son LOVES the MUS dvds, and I think the workbooks are much easier to look at than the Saxon 5/4 which does look like college texts....it just looks AWFUL to me. I am even intimidated by it! So, I feel better now. THanks for letting me voice it all. I just wish I could stick with something and be content. I have done Primer, Alpha, then BJU, then Beta then Saxon, and I guess I am coming back to MUS again! Meanwhile I also have looked into Horizons, MCP, Miquon, Singapore, etc etc. I just can't get into any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetobehome Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Oh Sue, I so much appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. I had actually come across your review earlier!!! Here is my dilemma. I LOVED MUS. I grew up in a private school, I struggled in math compared to other subjects....it was my hardest subject, I would get an 89 or a low A each semester. Yeah, I was a bit of a perfectionist, high A's in everything, except math which I just couldnt get as well. I could perform, but I never understood or appreciated it. It was a good school. I tried really hard, I just never GOT it. When I began using MUS a few yrs back with DS, I finally GOT IT. I understood concepts like I never had before. I got excited! I LOVE it. My son, though, struggled. Prob because he was pushed like 2 grade levels ahead. I pushed him too much. But he grew to dislike MUS, so we decided to do another curriculum to shake it up, and start over. That's when we went to BJU. Then I think I went back to use Beta, and then we started saxon 3. That was last january. We got to lesson 99 by June, and quit for the summer (which I will never do again---so much forgotten!). So, last week we started up again with lesson 100, and I see how much he forgot. It is going better now, but still, math just seems to take forever and I long for the old MUS days! But I also worried about rumors of MUS not being rigorous enough, or whatever. Then I read the same about Saxon. Here is what I have heard re both: MUS pro---teaches you to THINK and UNDERSTAND math MUS con--May not cover all concepts, not as broad in the concpts taught? AND testing is irregular bc they DONT teach to the test (in theory I totally agree with this, teaching to the test is insane. But I guess I got prideful and wanted him to score high to prove to the ridiculous state that I am doing a much better job than they do) Saxon pro--reliable, trusted and thorough. Kids test well. Saxon con--teaches steps or memorization, less about comprehension. Time-intensive. So! DH says forget about worrying about the stdized tests, he could care less about that. He says teach for comprehension and dont worry about the rest. He says he hears me saying the only reason I am choosing saxon is FEAR, and he is exactly right. Fear that MUS may not be traditional enough, prepare him well enough, etc. And I agree that fear is not how I should make choices here! So, I looked at reviews and The Old Schoolhouse rates MUS as #1 and Saxon as #2, so I guess both are great. I guess I hear myself saying I want to use MUS, I just need some more reassuring that it is going to teach us well enough that he can excel in whatever career he might choose. As far as day to day use, my son LOVES the MUS dvds, and I think the workbooks are much easier to look at than the Saxon 5/4 which does look like college texts....it just looks AWFUL to me. I am even intimidated by it! So, I feel better now. THanks for letting me voice it all. I just wish I could stick with something and be content. I have done Primer, Alpha, then BJU, then Beta then Saxon, and I guess I am coming back to MUS again! Meanwhile I also have looked into Horizons, MCP, Miquon, Singapore, etc etc. I just can't get into any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetobehome Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 sorry about that double post. THANKS, fractalgal, for your response too....I didnt see it before I posted my previous one. Hmmm....some good points you make! I wish I could just use both, but I am not that dedicated to math! Something makes me worry that MUS is just so different, that it will be hard for him to transition in college. I plan to homeschool through high school. AAaaackkkk! See, I am a mess! Ok, well off to bed to ponder.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 DH says forget about worrying about the stdized tests, he could care less about that. He says teach for comprehension and dont worry about the rest. He says he hears me saying the only reason I am choosing saxon is FEAR, and he is exactly right. Fear that MUS may not be traditional enough, prepare him well enough, etc. And I agree that fear is not how I should make choices here! I agree with your dh. Good luck to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractalgal Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 sorry about that double post. THANKS, fractalgal, for your response too....I didnt see it before I posted my previous one. Hmmm....some good points you make! I wish I could just use both, but I am not that dedicated to math! Something makes me worry that MUS is just so different, that it will be hard for him to transition in college. I plan to homeschool through high school. AAaaackkkk! See, I am a mess! Ok, well off to bed to ponder.... I think it would be a good idea to use both. I think you would get a lot out of it. One thing that helped me greatly in Math was drawing pictures of problems I needed to solve. I am a fan of mathematics you can see. :) I also think it is wise to not rely totally on one math program. Honestly, I think Saxon is the most thorough. However, my children have benefited from using Singapore simply for variety (and Singapore presents ideas better than Saxon on some things.) I think using MUS to supplement would not be a bad idea. The hard part is that it would require a great deal of work on the teacher's part. I'm sorry I don't have a nice easy answer for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesa Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I use both. I love MUS and I'm learning *MY* math facts from using it! My son is doing so well and his confidence is growing. I love MUS. However, I do feel the need to supplement with Saxon. It works well for us and we dont do all the problems on the Saxon worksheets. I guess it just comes down to the fact that my son does best using both programs... and it really doesn't seem like we are doing alot of math each day. I like using 2 programs.. 1 spiral and 1 mastery, but If I had to choose between the two I'd choose MUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I liked MUS a lot, but I was concerned about testing as I had heard some people say MUS doesnt present the variery of subjects on standardized tests, From what I understand that is the older MUS programs. Not the new programs. HTH I did not read all, hope I didn't repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcara Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I have no experience with MUS, but my dd used Saxon 54 last year as a 7-y-o with the DIVE CD and did very well. I wouldn't call it "a lot of tedious, busy work." It's very thorough, and my dd learned a lot. I think a lot of people believe the above quote because they have their child at a level that's too low for their abillity, so they do get bored with the constant review. My dd doesn't love having to continue doing some of the problems, but I think it's really good for her. We had previously done a mastery course, and she did forget a lot as the year went along. We're supplementing with Singapore's CWP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 OP, have you used BJU? Why is that not up for consideration? I have no experience with MUS, but my dd used Saxon 54 last year as a 7-y-o with the DIVE CD and did very well. When did she start? I hear that Math takes a large portion of the day when Saxon is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractalgal Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 OP, have you used BJU? Why is that not up for consideration? When did she start? I hear that Math takes a large portion of the day when Saxon is used. Ours takes an hour or less with Saxon. Time spent on math is time well spent because it is one of the more important subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanie Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 When did she start? I hear that Math takes a large portion of the day when Saxon is used. My daughter started Saxon 5/4 in 2nd grade (no cd, just the book) and it took her about an hour a day. We do not skip lessons or problems. My son is less mathy, and started 5/4 in 3rd grade. It took him about an hour and a half, mostly because of his attitude. (Neither one used the lower Saxon levels - we started with 5/4 after they learned their math facts.) Now they're in Algebra 1 and 7/6 (still no cd) and are each taking 45 minutes to an hour to complete a lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetobehome Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Yes, I think we have some of that attitiude your son had...it takes us just waay too long. Not because he can't do it, more because he THINKS he can't. Argh....I am so frustrated after today's math, I can't even think about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetobehome Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 Interested to hear from others who have used MUS for awhile and how it works out as they progress....also interested in Teaching Textbooks. Maybe also Singapore....I ownder if I tried MUS and singapore as a supplement. I just can't bear to go on with Saxon right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I would use BJU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Interested to hear from others who have used MUS for awhile and how it works out as they progress....also interested in Teaching Textbooks. Maybe also Singapore....I ownder if I tried MUS and singapore as a supplement. I just can't bear to go on with Saxon right now... We used MUS and supplemented with Singapore's Challenging Word Problems for several years. I find that a great combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetobehome Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 DH watched the MUS Demo tonight, and he is seeing math in a nwe light....this is my HUBBY! So, we are sold. We also picked up the BJU 4th workbook and will use that to supplement. I think we are finally all set! THanks everyone, for all your input! I feel decided, and relieved! Now I just need to get primer for my daughter. YAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 We switched from Saxon to MUS. My ds hated Saxon so much he asked if he could burn the book and I let him...in our fireplace! :lol: MUS has been perfect for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetobehome Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 HYSTERICAL!! Thanks for sharing! I don't think we will ever look back! (said hopefully!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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