How do you like immersion foreign language courses?

[rwalizer]

I took a little Spanish in high school and when I look at Rosetta Stone demos in spanish I see familiar words and it makes sense to me. I decided to see what it would feel like to ds to look at a language that he had no familiarity with so I switched to the French demo, since I never studied French. When faced with words I never saw before, I felt it would be impossible for anyone to learn this way. But I know Rosetta Stone is very popular as are other immersion styles of learning. I checked out Destinos from Annenberg and again it SEEMED easy but that may be because the words made sense to me already. What have been your experiences with dc learning a completely foreign language this way?

[Matryoshka]

Immersion is a wonderful method of learning a language - I am not personally convinced that Rosetta Stone is really immersion, though.

 

Immersion is just that - you are surrounded by the language and have to communicate in it. A school where the teachers speak nothing but the language or going to a country where no one can or is willing to speak to you in English would be much better examples of immersion. Necessary to both of these is 1. significant amount of time for exposure and 2. conversation, not just listening.

 

A computer program where you listen and repeat has neither of those, nor is even an hour a day really a lot of time. Immersion classes are also maybe only an hour a day, but there is the conversational component (again, I don't think listening and repeating qualifies as "conversation"), and I'm pretty sure even in immersion classes, because of the shorter time, they still have to introduce some grammatical structures as a framework.

 

Smaller amount of immersion time is necessary for a young child to become conversationally adept - a much larger amount would be necessary for an adolescent or adult.

 

My kids attend a German school 3 hrs a week. In the younger years it's just immersion, but even there they add grammar as they get to the mid-grades. My kids also watch a lot of videos in German for immersion reinforcement (yes, the conversational element is also missing, which is why they say, even in their native tongue, having a kid watch TV rather than talking with them stunts language development, but it does help their accent and comfort with the language).

 

OTOH, I personally think speaking and accent are very important to a foreign language (one you converse in, not Latin), so I am even more unimpressed with foreign language instruction that consists almost entirely of grammar by rote. A mix is better - heavier on conversation with a young child, adding more grammar as they get older (although imho conversation still remains very important). Because we tend to start a foreign language so late in this country, after the brain has already shut down the "absorb language naturally" gene, the grammar element becomes much more necessary than it would with a young child.

 

So, JMHO. "Immersion" seems to be tossed around quite casually. Go take a three month visit to a country where no one speaks English, and I guarantee you'll be conversing. Or even meeting for an hour a week with a native speaker - now that's immersion (although more is always better :)).

 

I do think that the strong spoken component to RS can be seen as an advantage over other programs - did I hear that in the more recent edition they've added more grammar on or off-line? I admit to only having seen the earlier version, and without any of the workbooks. I think the two approaches together would be better than either alone. Learn the framework, then practice speaking it aloud as much as possible.

[Hillary in KS]

We have used Rosetta Stone in combination with other curriculum (SYRWTLS) and have loved the result. Ds was doing fine with Rosetta Stone Spanish, but he is a detail man and really wanted to learn grammar in a structured manner as well.

 

We bought "So You Really Want To Learn Spanish" to meet that goal.

 

Hillary

[danielle]

I think you really have to think what your motivation is (or your dc's motivation), before you settle on a program. If we're highly motivated, we always do better, no?

 

If your motive is to be able to hold a conversation while in another country then I think Pimsleur is terrific. I used it when we went to Japan (beginning and intermediate level) and was able to get along well enough to order food, shop, make train reservations and argue about getting shortchanged. No deep philosophical stuff, but useful and it allowed us to travel way off the beaten path. Be sure you work through the whole level (about 36 cds)--the stuff you buy in the bookstore is just a teaser.

 

I tried Rosetta Stone for Italian. I think it is a good intro, but it's a lot of repetition. It will only teach speaking, listening, some spelling. IMHO, it's not a bad intro, but it's very basic and no grammar. For travel, or a bit of intro before beginning a more intensive program, it's useful (but I personally like Pimsleur better)

 

Because modern languages are spoken languages, we always think we have to emphasize speaking. But I don't think that's true. I've known French for over 30 years now, but I've "only" made five trips to France, and that's a LOT for most of us. So, in 30 years my only real immersion speaking opportunity has been less than 10 weeks. But I've derived immense pleasure and utility from being able to read novels, cook from cookbooks, listen to music, watch movies, and use it for study in graduate school. If this is the path that your dc might follow, then a focus on grammar, reading and listening is the way to go. I am not so familiar with Destinos, but if it works like French in Action, you need all the books and tapes that go with it, not just the video/broadcast, to really do the job. For FIA, the audio tapes/workbooks are the real heart of the program, and many people skip that.

 

Finally, it's important to realize that learning language is a many-hours endeavor. It's not like taking a course in Shakespeare or U.S. History, where you can be fairly well versed in a year or so. It's like learning math, where you begin early on with basics, and by the time you finish high school, there's still way more you can learn. Put another way, for a language like French or Spanish, you need to know about 2500 words to read a newspaper. In a year, that would mean memorizing about 50 words per week, not something most language learners manage. You would also need to learn the present, passe compose, futur, imparfait and subjunctive tenses. All I'm saying is that we have to be patient with ourselves--it's a worthwhile endeavor, but it does take time.

 

If my own experience is any standard, focusing on grammar, listening, and reading still allows you to do quite well in a speaking situation. The first few days in a foreign country, I make A LOT of grammar mistakes, mistakes that I am painfully aware of when I think for a moment. But everyone understands me, and corrects me! Within a few days, I'm back to thinking and dreaming in French.

 

 

With Spanish, depending on where you live, you will probably have much more opportunity to practice speaking. So, I would say, weigh your purpose in studying any language, and select a program that emphasizes it. Then find ways to supplement whatever is lacking that you feel will be beneficial to your purposes.

 

HTH,

Danielle

[Jean in Wisc]

Immersion is such a fantastically easy way to learn a language!

 

Er...

 

 

well...that is...it is fantastic if you have not lost the "elasticity" in the brain that helps you learn a language as a child learns a language.

 

My linguistics profs stressed that children learn through immersion, but adults don't do well with that method because somewhere before puberty most brains loose the ability to learn language as a native speaker.

 

So...learning by the book and then adding immersion for us adults is probably going to go a lot further than immersion alone.

 

Just my .02.

 

J

[Laurie in CA]

Immersion is such a fantastically easy way to learn a language!

 

Er...

 

 

well...that is...it is fantastic if you have not lost the "elasticity" in the brain that helps you learn a language as a child learns a language.

 

My linguistics profs stressed that children learn through immersion, but adults don't do well with that method because somewhere before puberty most brains loose the ability to learn language as a native speaker.

 

So...learning by the book and then adding immersion for us adults is probably going to go a lot further than immersion alone.

 

Just my .02.

 

J

:iagree:

 

This is what we are doing with Lingua Latina which is considered "immersion" or a "purely inductive" method. (This terminology is used by Jeanne Neumann in A College Companion) Too bad they don't have this type of book for other languages.