blessedmom4god Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Haven't posted in a LONG time, but I need some advice because I'm about to drive myself crazy. My oldest who is going into the 9th grade this year took saxon alg 1 last year in the 8th. She did it using the virtual homeschool groups videos and self grading online problems. She finished with a low B, but when I show her stuff from other algebra books or even problems for saxon alg she says it looks familiar and knows about how to work the problem but can not seem to get the correct answers. My plan was to continue with saxon alg 2 this fall, but now I'm wondering if we should: 1. Retake saxon alg 1 in 9th but not use the online problems on VHG 2. Retake alg with another program like lials 3. Move on to Alg 2 and review where needed 4 Move on to a geometry program like Jacobs which is suppose to have alg review in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I know many do self grading, but I'm not a fan. There's a big difference between having the problems look familiar, as in you've seen them worked correctly in the solutions manual, and being able to work them correctly yourself. When we used Saxon, after dd completed the lesson she'd read her answers to me and when it was wrong she'd rework it until getting the right answer. That's where a lot of the learning happens. Then when tests are given, the results should be good as they've worked 30+ problems correctly each day. Out of your four options, the only one which I think might cause problems is number 3. To see how much she's mastered, maybe you could have her take Saxon's online placement test and see if she places into Alg II. The other thing you can do is a quick review by having her take the tests from Algebra I and moving on as long as she does well. Then move onto Alg II without the self-correcting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Maybe pick up a cheap copy of a "Beginning and Intermediate Algebra" textbook designed to be used in a single semester, and then do the beginning part of that book as a review before switching back to Saxon Algebra 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessedmom4god Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 SHe didn't self check with the solution manual. THe self grading is done online and you enter you answer on VHG and it tells you if its correct or not. You can submit an answer as many times as you need to till you get the right answer. I am thinking even though she had to rework it to come up with the correct answer that it made it a little easier especially on the test problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Jacobs has algebra review problems - not algebra review explanations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The problem with this type of grading is that the student only knowsnyes I got it right, no I didn't. But they do not know what went wrong. Was it a simple computational error, failure to reduce to lowest terms, failure to follow the order of operations, failure to set up the story problem correctly, not understanding key word clues in the story problem, missing a step in simplifying exponents...the student needs to be walked through the solution in order to understand the process. Solid algebra one skills undergird ALL future maths and sciences. So I would get a completely different curriculum and if I did not feel confident in teaching the material, hire a tutor, use Great Courses lectures, or enroll in college algebra at the cc or uni under DE. I would not move ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessedmom4god Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 I know many do self grading, but I'm not a fan. There's a big difference between having the problems look familiar, as in you've seen them worked correctly in the solutions manual, and being able to work them correctly yourself. When we used Saxon, after dd completed the lesson she'd read her answers to me and when it was wrong she'd rework it until getting the right answer. That's where a lot of the learning happens. Then when tests are given, the results should be good as they've worked 30+ problems correctly each day. Out of your four options, the only one which I think might cause problems is number 3. To see how much she's mastered, maybe you could have her take Saxon's online placement test and see if she places into Alg II. The other thing you can do is a quick review by having her take the tests from Algebra I and moving on as long as she does well. Then move onto Alg II without the self-correcting. The problem with this type of grading is that the student only knowsnyes I got it right, no I didn't. But they do not know what went wrong. Was it a simple computational error, failure to reduce to lowest terms, failure to follow the order of operations, failure to set up the story problem correctly, not understanding key word clues in the story problem, missing a step in simplifying exponents...the student needs to be walked through the solution in order to understand the process. Solid algebra one skills undergird ALL future maths and sciences. So I would get a completely different curriculum and if I did not feel confident in teaching the material, hire a tutor, use Great Courses lectures, or enroll in college algebra at the cc or uni under DE. I would not move ahead. I am going to have her take the saxon placement test for Alg 2 today. If she passes it with a 85, with me grading it, then I assume it would be safe to move on. If she doesn't pass I will have her retake alg 1 this year with Lails before moving on. Either way I'm not sure about moving on with saxon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I am going to have her take the saxon placement test for Alg 2 today. If she passes it with a 85, with me grading it, then I assume it would be safe to move on. If she doesn't pass I will have her retake alg 1 this year with Lails before moving on. Either way I'm not sure about moving on with saxon. If she likes the material as presented on VHS, then if she places into Algebra 2, you could have her watch the videos online, but have her do her work separately with you checking the answers and having her rework the problems as needed. I'd also be sure to give the tests on paper. IMO it's not really a test for mastery if the problems can be re-worked and resubmitted. Saxon worked great for us but from what I've heard here, Lial's is a good choice as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Another possibility would be to have her use a Lial's Beginning Algebra book and do each chapter review. If she runs into issues, have her stop at that point and begin to go through the relevant portion(s) of the text. Regards, Kareni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Di3kids Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 My two older kids were "ahead" in math all along in elementary and middle school, but I think something went wrong, however, when the were in algebra and algebra 2. I think they were a bit too young to be two years ahead in math, and I don't think it helped them as much when it came time to take ACT tests. They both did very well, but largely due to their English and reading scores, not their math scores. If I had it to do over (which I do as I have one more daughter), I would make sure the algebra concepts were planted firmly in their heads and NOT move on unless they were. There really is no rush or need to push our kids. In the end, our son did calculus his senior year and our daughter will finish her senior year with a year and a half of pre-calculus (Saxon). For the college she is attending, she will probably need to to take calc but I am okay with that. I regret that they kinda "stalled out" in math during their early h.s. years. So, my two cents, for what it's worth is to master algebra before moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omma Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I've heard that Saxon placement tests are intended only for those who have not used Saxon before. I can feel your pain, though! However, in our case I have an upcoming 9th grader who I'm trying to get through Alg. 1/2 since I didn't think he scored well enough in Saxon 8/7 to skip it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I am going to have her take the saxon placement test for Alg 2 today. If she passes it with a 85, with me grading it, then I assume it would be safe to move on. If she doesn't pass I will have her retake alg 1 this year with Lails before moving on. Either way I'm not sure about moving on with saxon. Good idea to take the placement test but you need to understand at what level or what topics your student is deficient in. A complete redo might be quite boring. Maybe half a year for the retake. I agree the online problems may be ok but give the tests in the traditional manner on paper. The test sets the expectations for the students. My son's Geometry teacher last year gave all multiple choice tests so many of the students found it easy and started slacking off. I treated his HW as a test and insisted he work any problem he missed until he got it correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Saxon's placement test is designed for people who haven't used Saxon and can easily result in falsely high scores for students who have. Based on your statement about her not being able to work problems from other algebra books I really don't think she's understood it. I would re-do algebra with a different curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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