Math Suggestions Needed...

[shburks]

I am still searching for the "right" math program for my son for next year.  He is currently in a private school where they use Bob Jones Curriculum.  He was grade advanced over 1st grade and is currently in 4th but goes up to 5th grade for math.  I'll be homeschooling next year.  He's 9.  I was originally thinking Math U See or Saxon but now I'm shying away from Saxon because of my concerns about the lack of Geometry only course for high school

 

I've done a couple of placement tests from some of the math programs.  He tested out of Math U See Zeta so would be ready for pre-Algebra.  I haven't had him complete the Saxon one yet, but I don't doubt that's where he is.  His math teacher says he picks up concepts unbelievably quickly.  

 

Part of me is concerned about starting him too early.  If I do pre-Algebra next year (as 5th grade), and then Algebra I the year after, where does that leave us?  

 

Should I do an easier math course for now (say Math U See pre-Algebra and Algebra I and then switch to a harder course like Art of Problem Solving or Jacob's) later almost like a "light Algebra" course and a real Algebra course?

 

Do I do pre-Algebra and then take a step back to do something else?

 

I feel very overwhelmed right now, and I'd really love some opinions of someone who has been there and done that with a younger child with a passion AND a strong giftedness in math.

 

And please don't use too many acronyms!  This is all still new to me so I have a hard time figuring out curriculum acronyms.  

 

Thanks!

 

[basketcase]

My 4th grader has worked on a variety of math programs this year - our favorites have been Khan Academy (He always comes back to it. Badges! Variety!) and Jousting Armadillos. He has worked through a couple of chapters of Art of Problem Solving's Pre-Algebra, and we're finding that the pace is too quick for him with his background. He can retain the new concepts well enough to answer some questions, but struggles with long-term retention. We really like the book, though. We're just going to slow down the pace a little and practice some of the tasks on Khan Academy and with the Key to Algebra booklets before moving onto the next chapter. I did look through some Math U See Algebra today and didn't love it. I know it's worked well for some other families, though. Good luck! This is an awkward transition. I'm still hoping Beast Academy 5 will be ready in time for my next kid.

[AK_Mom4]

Just a note - Saxon does have a Geometry only course for high school math. I used it with two of my kids and it was just fine. Not that giving you even more options is helpful- sorry about that!

 

I think it's best to take a look at the various publishers and see which style seems to fit your son best. Math U See and AOPS were both flops here with my mathy kids - not because there is anything wrong with the curriculum, but that these did not fit how my kids learn. Saxon was successful for my kids - both the youngers are "just get it done" kids, but so were Horizons and Teaching Textbooks. Currently, DD12 is using a public school text and is doing well.

 

I wouldn't look for an "easier" pre-algebra necessarily, but rather one that is at the right level and seems to click with how he learns. As far as doing Algebra in 6th, that works out just fine,too. With these accelereated kids, it's common to start Algebra when they are ready, even if that's ahead of where their age-peers are working.

 

Good Luck and Enjoy The Ride!

[kiana]

Don't worry, there are loads more subjects that can be done once you pass algebra 1. I'd recommend, if possible, getting to look at a few books (if nothing else, samples) with your son so you can pick something he finds appealing as well.

[SWinner]

Both of my kids are in public high schools now (for different reasons), but I homeschooled through Middle Sch. I started both on Saxon, primarily because the style was a good fit for me (taught math the way I learned math). However, due to their different learning styles I ended up using different a curriculum for each.

 

The Girl ended up liking Saxon very much & she used it through Algebra 2. She's very methodical and needed the constant review. She likes math, but it does not come easy and is very happy that her Sr. year will have none!

 

The Boy is a completely different story. I think he dreams in math and the constant review in Saxon made him crazy. I let him try several books & he ended up liking Singapore. Started with Primary, then moved into Discovering Mathematics. He really liked the way things were explained & it contained material that allowed him to push beyond the regular lesson. He also supplemented with Kahn 'just for fun.'

 

I'd let your son look at the options & see what he likes. I would focus first on what's a good fit now and change later if you need to. I found with both of my kids, in multiple areas, their learning styles changed as they aged and the most important thing was to keep them currently engaged. As for the level, in my experience, it's a lot easier to skip through an easy book and move up quickly then to go backwards if the book is too difficult.

 

Have fun with your math wiz, what a bright future he has. If you haven't already, you should also look into FIRST Robotics. Mine has been heavily involved in since he was about your son's age. Good stuff.

[shburks]

My 4th grader has worked on a variety of math programs this year - our favorites have been Khan Academy (He always comes back to it. Badges! Variety!) and Jousting Armadillos. He has worked through a couple of chapters of Art of Problem Solving's Pre-Algebra, and we're finding that the pace is too quick for him with his background. He can retain the new concepts well enough to answer some questions, but struggles with long-term retention. We really like the book, though. We're just going to slow down the pace a little and practice some of the tasks on Khan Academy and with the Key to Algebra booklets before moving onto the next chapter. I did look through some Math U See Algebra today and didn't love it. I know it's worked well for some other families, though. Good luck! This is an awkward transition. I'm still hoping Beast Academy 5 will be ready in time for my next kid.

I'm not familiar with Khan Academy at all.  I'll have to take a look at that.  I have concerns that AOPs might be too quick for my ds, too, maybe more based on his age that anything else.  So, are you using Jousting Armadillos AND Khan Academy while also working through AOPs pre-Algebra?

 

 

Just a note - Saxon does have a Geometry only course for high school math. I used it with two of my kids and it was just fine. Not that giving you even more options is helpful- sorry about that!

 

I think it's best to take a look at the various publishers and see which style seems to fit your son best. Math U See and AOPS were both flops here with my mathy kids - not because there is anything wrong with the curriculum, but that these did not fit how my kids learn. Saxon was successful for my kids - both the youngers are "just get it done" kids, but so were Horizons and Teaching Textbooks. Currently, DD12 is using a public school text and is doing well.

 

I wouldn't look for an "easier" pre-algebra necessarily, but rather one that is at the right level and seems to click with how he learns. As far as doing Algebra in 6th, that works out just fine,too. With these accelereated kids, it's common to start Algebra when they are ready, even if that's ahead of where their age-peers are working.

 

Good Luck and Enjoy The Ride!

For Saxon Geometry, my understanding is that it is the same material included in Algebra I and II but pulled out into a separate book to get Geometry credit for it.  I guess that's not the worst thing ever.  It just bugs me for some reason!  I also considered Teaching Textbooks, but I just don't know...

 

Thanks...I appreciate your thoughts on not being concerned about starting Algebra young.  I've been so happy to find this board and see that there are other kids like mine who do so well at math and start harder maths earlier.

 

Don't worry, there are loads more subjects that can be done once you pass algebra 1. I'd recommend, if possible, getting to look at a few books (if nothing else, samples) with your son so you can pick something he finds appealing as well.

I don't know that we have the opportunity to see any of the math books in person.  We're moving to Norfolk, VA, this summer, and I think there may be a homeschool store there where I could potentially see some of the books.  Samples I can probably come up with.  My concern is that he's only 9 and may not know what is appealing to him!!

 

 

Both of my kids are in public high schools now (for different reasons), but I homeschooled through Middle Sch. I started both on Saxon, primarily because the style was a good fit for me (taught math the way I learned math). However, due to their different learning styles I ended up using different a curriculum for each.

 

The Girl ended up liking Saxon very much & she used it through Algebra 2. She's very methodical and needed the constant review. She likes math, but it does not come easy and is very happy that her Sr. year will have none!

 

The Boy is a completely different story. I think he dreams in math and the constant review in Saxon made him crazy. I let him try several books & he ended up liking Singapore. Started with Primary, then moved into Discovering Mathematics. He really liked the way things were explained & it contained material that allowed him to push beyond the regular lesson. He also supplemented with Kahn 'just for fun.'

 

I'd let your son look at the options & see what he likes. I would focus first on what's a good fit now and change later if you need to. I found with both of my kids, in multiple areas, their learning styles changed as they aged and the most important thing was to keep them currently engaged. As for the level, in my experience, it's a lot easier to skip through an easy book and move up quickly then to go backwards if the book is too difficult.

 

Have fun with your math wiz, what a bright future he has. If you haven't already, you should also look into FIRST Robotics. Mine has been heavily involved in since he was about your son's age. Good stuff.

I've taught Algebra I with Saxon before, so I am familiar with it.  Like yours, mine loves math and picks up on concepts unbelievably quickly!  Someone mentioned that their dc didn't like the constant review, and I think my son would be like that...just give me the concept, give me some problems, let me do them and move on.  He really doesn't need that review (at least not right now).

 

I REALLY appreciate your thoughts here, SWinner, about focusing on what's a good fit now.  I keep forgetting that I can change later if needed.  Sounds so silly, but I feel like I need to find the right fit NOW for the rest of his homeschooling career!  This is only subject where I'm doing this though.  i guess I'm concerned about changing methods, but I'm sure he would be fine.  Right?  :)  We're currently in a small town without a lot of options but Norfolk has some Lego Robotics programs and lots of other great things, so I'm excited to be somewhere larger with more options!

[basketcase]

So, yeah. My kid can't seem to handle one curriculum for too long. We used the initial sections of Jousting Armadillos first, then switched to AoPS Pre-A - and always Khan Academy. Sometimes we take a break from regular texts and only do Khan. We'll probably go back to JA at some point. My kid always moves forward, but wanders around a bit.

[shburks]

So, yeah. My kid can't seem to handle one curriculum for too long. We used the initial sections of Jousting Armadillos first, then switched to AoPS Pre-A - and always Khan Academy. Sometimes we take a break from regular texts and only do Khan. We'll probably go back to JA at some point. My kid always moves forward, but wanders around a bit.

 

Thanks for sharing this.  I think I've just about settled on Jousting Armadillos and maybe doing Zaccaro alongside or something--maybe even doing AOPs pre-A in review once we finish to beef it up a bit before moving on to Algebra I after that.  :)

[Crimson Wife]

I would stay away from MUS and TT for a bright kid. They are some of the weakest HS math programs, and if your kid can do a more challenging program, I would strongly encourage you to do so.

 

I would start by giving him the ADAM test to see which topics he has mastered and which he has not. Then I would do the Math Mammoth "blue" worktexts for the topics he still needs to master. You can get the entire grades 4-7 bundle at Currclick for $65 and just print out the topics he needs.

 

MM is all-in-one and self-teaching.

[MEmama]

DS did pre algebra (Math Mammoth 6) for 5th and will do algebra next year in 6th. Don't worry about meeting your son where he is, there is no shortage of math to learn! :).

 

One of the greatest benefits to homeschooling is the ability to work at your child's pace. There are no artificial limitations on age or levels or so forth. Enjoy it! :)

[BuddhaMama]

I highly recommend EPGY!!! (Education Program for Gifted Youth: Stanford University) Our 1st grader is currently working at a 3rd grade level and loves this program. It's all web based, work at your own pace. Very rigorous and goes all the way up through Algebra. I love that it provides in depth reports for parents and is very reasonable ($135/10 months). Also includes language arts. 

 

http://epgy.stanford.edu/

 

Click on Parents---> Open Enrollment.

[shburks]

I would stay away from MUS and TT for a bright kid. They are some of the weakest HS math programs, and if your kid can do a more challenging program, I would strongly encourage you to do so.

 

I would start by giving him the ADAM test to see which topics he has mastered and which he has not. Then I would do the Math Mammoth "blue" worktexts for the topics he still needs to master. You can get the entire grades 4-7 bundle at Currclick for $65 and just print out the topics he needs.

 

MM is all-in-one and self-teaching.

That's what I kept reading.  That they weren't strong programs and didn't give a solid foundation to build on for higher maths and poor prep for college.  He definitely can do a more challenging program!  Can you please tell me what the ADAM test is?  I have done the MUS and Saxon placement tests for him and tested as ready for pre-Algebra in both cases.  

 

DS did pre algebra (Math Mammoth 6) for 5th and will do algebra next year in 6th. Don't worry about meeting your son where he is, there is no shortage of math to learn! :).

 

One of the greatest benefits to homeschooling is the ability to work at your child's pace. There are no artificial limitations on age or levels or so forth. Enjoy it! :)

Thank you.  I think I needed someone to tell me this--that there's plenty of math to learn!  I was such an average math person myself that those higher maths are foreign to me.  DS got his math abilities from my husband who took all kinds of math classes I did not!

 

I highly recommend EPGY!!! (Education Program for Gifted Youth: Stanford University) Our 1st grader is currently working at a 3rd grade level and loves this program. It's all web based, work at your own pace. Very rigorous and goes all the way up through Algebra. I love that it provides in depth reports for parents and is very reasonable ($135/10 months). Also includes language arts. 

 

http://epgy.stanford.edu/

 

Click on Parents---> Open Enrollment.

 

Thanks!  I keep seeing this mentioned, but I'll have to take a look at it.  We are part of the Duke TIP program, but I know these work very differently.  :)

[kohlby]

We found that MUS worked great to get the basics down but was then very watered down after that.  Pre-Algebra was on the weaker side, but my child enjoyed it so he did it.  Then he started the Alg I.  I wanted to love it.  MUS had worked so well from the start so we kept hoping it would improve.  He switched out half-way through.  It wasn't a strong Alg I program, but that also caused it to bore us both.  So, though it can be a wonderful step for some kids, it was not a good fit for my child.  He switched out and started AoPS Intro to Algebra after that and did well. 

 

As for age, we don't worry too much about that.  We're figuring it out as we go.  He doesn't do so much math a year, but speeds up and slows down as needed.  He started AoPS Intro to Alg at the start of 4th grade.  I do think doing AoPS any earlier wouldn't have worked for him due to the maturity.  However, I could have spent that MUS Alg I time in 3rd grade doing something like the Key to Alg instead of MUS.  He absolutely loved AoPS Intro to Number Theory.  So, that's another option.  There's also an Intro to Probability course.  Neither of those are full year courses, but they're nice to add something.  There's far more maths possible that the traditional public school courses out there so I am not concerned.

[shburks]

We found that MUS worked great to get the basics down but was then very watered down after that.  Pre-Algebra was on the weaker side, but my child enjoyed it so he did it.  Then he started the Alg I.  I wanted to love it.  MUS had worked so well from the start so we kept hoping it would improve.  He switched out half-way through.  It wasn't a strong Alg I program, but that also caused it to bore us both.  So, though it can be a wonderful step for some kids, it was not a good fit for my child.  He switched out and started AoPS Intro to Algebra after that and did well. 

 

As for age, we don't worry too much about that.  We're figuring it out as we go.  He doesn't do so much math a year, but speeds up and slows down as needed.  He started AoPS Intro to Alg at the start of 4th grade.  I do think doing AoPS any earlier wouldn't have worked for him due to the maturity.  However, I could have spent that MUS Alg I time in 3rd grade doing something like the Key to Alg instead of MUS.  He absolutely loved AoPS Intro to Number Theory.  So, that's another option.  There's also an Intro to Probability course.  Neither of those are full year courses, but they're nice to add something.  There's far more maths possible that the traditional public school courses out there so I am not concerned.

Thank you!!  Great information in here!  I'm making sure to take note of these other books you mentioned.

 

Where did you use AoPS Intro to Number Theory and Intro to Probability?  In between something?  

[Erin]

For Saxon Geometry, my understanding is that it is the same material included in Algebra I and II but pulled out into a separate book to get Geometry credit for it.  I guess that's not the worst thing ever.  It just bugs me for some reason!

Just as a quick FYI:  Saxon does what's called "integrated geometry," like most non-US math programs do.  

 

While kids are doing basic geometry in Algebra I (pythagorean theorem as an example), the way I've read it, Geometry really isn't hit until AlgebraII and the first half of Advanced Math.  That's when credit can be awarded.  

[shburks]

Just as a quick FYI:  Saxon does what's called "integrated geometry," like most non-US math programs do.  

 

While kids are doing basic geometry in Algebra I (pythagorean theorem as an example), the way I've read it, Geometry really isn't hit until AlgebraII and the first half of Advanced Math.  That's when credit can be awarded.  

I did see that.  My concern is that his transcript wouldn't show Geometry unless we absolutely finished the whole series of Saxon, so it just makes me shy away from it!

[Erin]

If you finish Advanced Math through lesson 60 (?), you can record him as having completed Geometry.