For those who have been using WWS for high school or who are finishing it coming into high school...

[PeterPan]

What is the appropriate follow-up?  I know SWB released her chart, but I'm still trying to make sense of it.  She suggests They Say, I Say and the Schaum research paper book.  Well I got TSIS from the library, and as I recall it was a college text.  I'm just not seeing in that pick up and go, structure, age-appropriate assignments, etc., kwim?  I must be missing something.  I can request it again and look over it.

 

There's IEW EE, but that seems to be sort of spartan, overlapping with WWS quite a bit (without spending as much time or going into as much detail) and then spending very little time on what would be new.

 

WTM/SWB says to do persuasive papers in high school.  In talking with someone, I'm thinking maybe she doesn't mean exclusively persuasive but more what this other person termed evaluative.  I have no clue what I'm talking about.  I need to pull out my WTM and see, but I'm just not getting from A to B here.  I have no clue how to actually DO this.  

 

What I want is WWA (Writing With Arguments), lol.  Oh, I guess I already have that, but seriously...

[TNLisa]

OhElizabeth,

 

What did you decide to do/use?  I don't have advice, only an inquisitive mind :)

 

[PeterPan]

LOL, no pressure or anything!   :D  I bought the IEW Advanced Communications dvds that SWB recommends. I'm hoping we get it done this summer.  I don't *think* we're going to do WWS3.  That could change, but as of right now that's what I'm thinking.  We've got a bunch of ideas for this fall, and I just don't think we need to do EVERYTHING.  She's going into the AP Human Geography class, so that has writing.  We've got a food writing book to work through.  I've got this rhetoric book Janice in NJ had mentioned a couple years ago that I finally understand how to use.  I think I had more ideas and can't remember.  They're written somewhere.  (in one of the notebooks lost in my transition between desks, oops!)  

 

I also want to get her doing more argumentative work, with some kind of simple plan like writing 1-2 argumentative essays a month.  I also have that seed idea of analyzing NYT opinion articles.  At a certain point you get so many ideas you can't get it all done, kwim?  

 

I've already seen the writing on the wall.  I think sometime her junior year she'll start doing DE stuff, so that will pretty much transition me out of the picture.  My goal is to make sure she's ready for that.  

 

Nice picture (avatar) btw.  :)

[lewelma]

I'm using the Brief Bedford reader. It has essays organized by topos, which seems a nice follow on from WWS which has paragraphs/short works organized by topos. All of the Bedford essays are persuasive in their own way so more advanced than the WWS material. It also has lots of good discussion questions and  gives prompts for response essays, critical analysis essays, and essays using the topos under study. We've just started it and it looks to be a great transition from WWS to The Language of Composition and other high-level persuasive writing texts.

Ruth in NZ

[stephinsocal]

WWS3?  I'm not seeing it on the Peace Hill Press website.

[TCB]

I'm using the Brief Bedford reader. It has essays organized by topos, which seems a nice follow on from WWS which has paragraphs/short works organized by topos. All of the Bedford essays are persuasive in their own way so more advanced than the WWS material. It also has lots of good discussion questions and  gives prompts for response essays, critical analysis essays, and essays using the topos under study. We've just started it and it looks to be a great transition from WWS to The Language of Composition and other high-level persuasive writing texts.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

I had a look at this on Amazon and wondered if there is a difference in editions etc?

[~Anna~]

WWS3? I'm not seeing it on the Peace Hill Press website.

It isn't out yet, but I think it should be by the fall??? Someone else may know exactly when.

 

ETA: Looks like August.

[PeterPan]

I'm using the Brief Bedford reader. It has essays organized by topos, which seems a nice follow on from WWS which has paragraphs/short works organized by topos. All of the Bedford essays are persuasive in their own way so more advanced than the WWS material. It also has lots of good discussion questions and  gives prompts for response essays, critical analysis essays, and essays using the topos under study. We've just started it and it looks to be a great transition from WWS to The Language of Composition and other high-level persuasive writing texts.

 

Ruth in NZ

That sounds pretty similar in format and function to what I've got.  Strategies for Successful Writing, Concise (9th Edition)  though mine is the 6th edition.

[Colleen in NS]

What is the appropriate follow-up?  I know SWB released her chart, but I'm still trying to make sense of it.  She suggests They Say, I Say and the Schaum research paper book.  Well I got TSIS from the library, and as I recall it was a college text.  I'm just not seeing in that pick up and go, structure, age-appropriate assignments, etc., kwim?  I must be missing something.  I can request it again and look over it.

 

 

I am thinking that she means for people to study those books the same way they would study the rhetoric books rec'd in WTM - read the material, outline it, and then apply the techniques you learn to weekly writing projects (that the parent makes up).

[MomsintheGarden]

SWB's 4/9/2014 blog post gives you a link to a chart with some possibilities to ponder:

http://www.susanwisebauer.com/blog/

 

Here is the chart in pdf form:

http://downloads.peacehillpress.com/samples/pdf/WWEandWWSexplanation.pdf

 

I have most of what she recommends as choices for followups. Since we are in speech and my upcoming 11th grader is writing persuasive and expository speeches, we'll probably just use They Say, I Say. He also studied for and took the AP Lit exam this spring, will be taking the AP Language exam next spring (backwards because of a scheduling conflict. Depending on where he attends college he will probably study for and take the American Lit CLEP his senior year.

[TNLisa]

     I bought the IEW Advanced Communications dvds that SWB recommends. 

 

Nice picture (avatar) btw.   :)

 

Sounds like a plan is coming together for you and your dd!  

Will this be the first time to use IEW with her?

 

I thought I had a plan for next year.  I confess that for the first time in 9 years of homeschooling I haven't a clue what we will do - really with any subject.  Maybe I'm just tired today - we had our year end portfolio assessment review earlier.

 

I have a question for you tho:

My dd completed WWS1 in 8th grade and did very well with the program.

I teetered on the fence for months over moving into WWS2 for 9th but chose not to because we went with MFW AHL and felt adding WWS2 was going to drive my dd crazy.

Here we are at the end of the year tho and I wish we had done WWS2.

 

We are more than likely not going to use MFW WHL for 10th grade.  So my writing options are wide open.  I'm debating on WWS2, perhaps doing double time then moving right into WWS3.  

Or...?

 

We will integrate literature into some aspect of history - just need a fresh perspective for the whole "English" enchilada :confused1:

Any thoughts? (is this considered highjacking your thread?) - 

oh and thanks for the comment on the photo :)

 

 

Edited to add:

Our decision to "possibly" not continue with WHL is not because MFW is not a solid program  - it is!  If anything it has been more than my dd could do in one day because of her riding/competition schedule.  I felt like the basic things (writing and math) were getting pushed to the back burner because she was spending most of her time reading for History/Bible/English.  We've used MFW since 3rd grade and have no regrets.  

[PeterPan]

Sounds like a plan is coming together for you and your dd!  

Will this be the first time to use IEW with her?

 

I thought I had a plan for next year.  I confess that for the first time in 9 years of homeschooling I haven't a clue what we will do - really with any subject.  Maybe I'm just tired today - we had our year end portfolio assessment review earlier.

 

I have a question for you tho:

My dd completed WWS1 in 8th grade and did very well with the program.

I teetered on the fence for months over moving into WWS2 for 9th but chose not to because we went with MFW AHL and felt adding WWS2 was going to drive my dd crazy.

Here we are at the end of the year tho and I wish we had done WWS2.

 

We are more than likely not going to use MFW WHL for 10th grade.  So my writing options are wide open.  I'm debating on WWS2, perhaps doing double time then moving right into WWS3.  

Or...?

 

We will integrate literature into some aspect of history - just need a fresh perspective for the whole "English" enchilada :confused1:

Any thoughts? (is this considered highjacking your thread?) - 

oh and thanks for the comment on the photo :)

Well come on...  SWB actually reads my/our board posts and commented on things I had said when I saw her at the convention.  You're gonna get me all in bad here, lol.  Seriously, I think WWS2 is more important than WWS3.  You also don't need to do WWS2 at the suggested pace.  I think I gave somewhere the list we hacked it down to.  There's copia in there that you may have accomplished in other ways with previous curriculum.  Your student is older than target, so they can do double lessons.  Don't be NICE about this.  Now is the time to start getting a big mean.  

 

Seriously, I picked that up from Carol Reynolds of Discovering Music.  She said homeschoolers are way too nice and need to start toughening our kids up with some unfairness and not niceness!  So be ruthless.  Assign two weeks' worth every week, axe some things, get ruthless.  If you do that, you can definitely get through WWS2, and you might even be able to accomplish a fair chunk of WWS3.  I've gotten the beta lessons for WWS3 this year which, shhh, is why I'm thinking about not using it.  I know, this is where I get in bad with SWB again!  I couldn't tell how much new it covered and how much it sort of filled by saying now apply it.  After I saw too many weeks of that, I figured we might as well just go apply it our own selves, our own way. 

 

But I haven't seen the print version.  I TOTALLY reserve the right to eat crow on that.  The way we work, the betas were just not usable.  Having that beautiful book I can scan, highlight, and wrap my brain around works better for me.  So I won't know what it's really like till I get it in-hand.  We may get to January or something and decide to jump in and give it some time.  In fact, I'd be surprised if we didn't.  (Junkies and their need to try everything, haha.)  

 

I'm just saying if you're going to do anything, pick back up with WWS2.  No learning is ever wasted.  She'll just be a bit more mature and bring more perspective to her writing.  But since she's a bit more mature, cut anything that's unnecessary for her and pick up the pace.  Be a bit mean.  It's not too horrendous to ask a 10th grader to write two essays a week.  Even if it meant writing 3 times a week, I didn't mind.  I was intentionally trying to push her a bit to make it easier for her.

[Colleen in NS]

...

 

My dd completed WWS1 in 8th grade and did very well with the program.

I teetered on the fence for months over moving into WWS2 for 9th but chose not to because we went with MFW AHL and felt adding WWS2 was going to drive my dd crazy.

Here we are at the end of the year tho and I wish we had done WWS2.

 

We are more than likely not going to use MFW WHL for 10th grade.  So my writing options are wide open.  I'm debating on WWS2, perhaps doing double time then moving right into WWS3.  

Or...?

 

We will integrate literature into some aspect of history - just need a fresh perspective for the whole "English" enchilada :confused1:

 

My son is at the end of Grade 10, and he completed WWS 2 and got partway into WWS 3 beta-test this year.  He will continue with WWS 3 (and I will purchase it as soon as it's available so he can continue and so my daughter can use it when she's done WWS 2) until he's done (partway through Grade 11, I expect).  I am pretty sure I read somewhere that SWB put everything into Levels 1-3 that she wanted to put into WWS.  So the way I see it is that if my kids complete through Level 3, they will have a mental toolbox full of excellent techniques to use across their reading and writing.  Think of those reference pages WWS has your student make.  They really are a great set of references - I've told my kids to hold onto those!  :D  That's because they will have gone through the teaching and practice lessons on each technique, so when they look back to the reference pages, they will remember what they learned and be able to use the skills in a big variety of writing.  To me, WWS is characteristic of the way SWB makes teaching/learning orderly.  I love that.

 

I am hoping that when ds finishes WWS 3 I will be able to assign him papers to write from his content-area reading.  I planned to do that this past year, and I did a few times, but for him it would have been too much to do that every week (though that is what I had planned a few years ago!).  He worked diligently through WWS (and his other subjects), but to give him more writing assignments while working through that would have fried his brain. :)  Anyway, I figure now that he will have the latter part of Grade 11 and all of Grade 12 in which to put those skills to practice and to begin a rhetoric study (which we will also use to do writing from his content-area reading).

 

My daughter is working through WWS 2 right now, and the same is true for her - if I gave her extra writing assignments right now, she would melt down.  Although, I did give her a few throughout this past year, just to show her how she would eventually be using the skills she is learning.  But I didn't want to overload her mind, either, as she is also working through several other necessary subjects.  She is also still working on some skills that she began in elementary, such as cursive writing and reading aloud to me.  She's also learning to type.  I tell her that once I feel she doesn't need daily practice in these anymore (probably very soon), we will drop them from the daily schedule, and that will make her feel as if she doesn't have a million tiny tasks to do every day, and that she will then be able to do more "extra" writing assignments each week (or else not get so frustrated about having to fix things on her WWS assignments, because she feels rushed).  Unlike her brother, she does like writing, so I think she will enjoy WWS and "extra" assignments more when she doesn't have to work on these elementary school skills every day anymore.  She's actually blossoming into quite the creative writer - she is secretly working on a novel which she won't show me, lol!  But she did let me read part of it yesterday, and I thought it was really good! :D

 

Anyway, that's my story about WWS in high school and late jr. high.  :D  hth

 

[TNLisa]

 

 

I'm just saying if you're going to do anything, pick back up with WWS2.  No learning is ever wasted.  

This is what I'm thinking.  

I have no doubt my dd can handle the work - that has never been the issue - what has made her crazy was feeling like she was "all over the map" with assignments that just didn't flow.  She is my kid who likes to understand "why" and "what is the point" with an assignment.  When she can connect the dots then she retains the information.  That is why WWS1 was such a good fit for her - the concepts built upon each other and she applied what she was learning every single week.  

 

I like the idea of using the IEW Advanced Communications dvds as a bridge after WWS2 (or after WWS3).  You'll have to update if you and your dd do that this summer.

[PeterPan]

Lisa, I'm likely to forget, so feel free to pm me in August and ask how/if it's going.  :)

[Julie in GA]

Elizabeth,

What's the name of the rhetoric book you said you had that Janice in NJ recommended?

[PeterPan]

Julie, I already posted the link above.