Need suggestions on how meet these requests

[joannqn]

After ongoing problems, we put our 12 year old into public school this week.  I don't want him in public school, but we needed to do something different.  Our plan is to reevaluate in June.  We'll leave him in school if he does well and really wants to stay.  However, there are some things that the school simply cannot provide him.
 

The good news is that we're already having some good, productive conversations.  He was able to articulate what he likes about school and may want if he came back home.  I just don't know how to make that happen.  So, I'm asking for suggestions.

He wants to continue with Art of Problem Solving.  He was doing Introduction of Algebra at home, and he average an hour and a half per section.  . 

He wants to study physics.  But he doesn't want to do "dumb" labs like swinging a ball tied to a string and rolling a marble down a slope.  I would guess that he wants to spend time applying math to physics.

He wants the rest of his subjects to be easy, but he wants his school day to be longer. In the past when his subjects were easy, school took no more than three hours to complete, so I'm at a loss of how to meet his request.  So the easy subjects would be English (he can do MCT Magic Lens 1 and it doesn't seem very difficult for him), History, and electives.  

He's not artistic and doesn't like art.  He doesn't play any instruments.  He tends to like math, science, and STEM stuff.  I'm not sure what electives to add.

He wants a long school day because he doesn't know how to entertain himself and doesn't like to be bored.  During his free time, he typically reads the same series over and over and over.  He's been given reading suggestions by multiple people but declines to try them.  We bought him a Saturn V rocket model (he loves astronomy), but he won't work on it.  We bought him Snap Circuits because we thought it would appeal to his STEM interests; they get pulled out about once a month.  We bought him a remote control plane, but it currently is out of service until repairs can be made.  He has Legos; they don't get touched. 

He wants more direction from me than I've been giving him.  Basically, a lesson of some sort and then an assignment that he can then go work on.  I also have another older student and two younger students to teach as well.

We are limited by funds available.

How would you accomplish all of this?

[regentrude]

I do not understand what exactly you are asking. he is in school now; are you talking about augmenting his schooling, or about possibly homeschooling next year?

 

I would like to comment on this aspect, however:

 

He wants to study physics.  But he doesn't want to do "dumb" labs like swinging a ball tied to a string and rolling a marble down a slope.  I would guess that he wants to spend time applying math to physics.

 

These are not "dumb" labs. The value of a physics lab is not in the complicated experimental setup, but in the analysis and comparison with the theory. One can use a lot of math to analyze the data from these two experiments and make them college level just by adding analysis and a clear question.

For example, he could test how the period of the swing depends on mass of the ball, amplitude of the swing, and length of the string. He can plot his data. he can discover a square root relationship. This is a perfect physic lab for an interested middle school/junior high student who had math through algebra. With trigonometry, you can do more things.

And in fact, the theory of swinging a ball on a string involves math that is so complicated that physics undergraduates do not get to it until their third year in college. For big amplitudes, this leads to a pretty nasty nonlinear differential equation.

 

So, plenty of math for him to apply :-)

[joannqn]

I'm working on coming up with possibilities for next year.

 

He is the one that thought those experiments were dumb.  He doesn't want a program like RS4K.  We tried doing their level 1 three years ago but he hated it.  He thought it was too simplistic/childish.  (Yeah, at the age of 9, he was describing things as too childish.)  Level 2, which they say is middle school, looks to be very similar with just a little more explanation.  So, we wouldn't be looking for a program like that.   I think he's looking for something that feels mature and advanced.  I think he would like something that explains the concepts and equations used in physics and then gives assignments where those equations are used.  So basically physics based math.   (Honestly, I don't think he even has a complete understanding of what physics is at this level.  He just wants to do it because he wants to study astronomy and was told that he needs a lot of physics for that.  A college professor just told us that an astronomy degree is basically a physics degree with some astronomy thrown in.)

I never took physics so I no background at all.  DH did take some physics, though I don't know how advanced that was.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Could you give him a daily assignment list that includes all this regular work and, for instance, 1.  Work on Saturn Rocket model for 20 minutes.  2.  Read ______ book for 30 minutes (you specify the title.)  3.  Work on Snap Circuits for 15 minutes.  

 

That kind of thing?  Make those things NOT optional?  It sounds like they are things he would want to do and would learn from, but he needs you to sort of "force" him to work on them to bother with.  My dd is the same way, only hers is more in the fine arts realm.  We must include things like art appreciation, guitar, piano, etc. on our school schedule as mandatory, and then she does them and is happy about it.  If not, she won't bother.

[joannqn]

Could you give him a daily assignment list that includes all this regular work and, for instance, 1.  Work on Saturn Rocket model for 20 minutes.  2.  Read ______ book for 30 minutes (you specify the title.)  3.  Work on Snap Circuits for 15 minutes.  

 

That kind of thing?  Make those things NOT optional?  It sounds like they are things he would want to do and would learn from, but he needs you to sort of "force" him to work on them to bother with.  My dd is the same way, only hers is more in the fine arts realm.  We must include things like art appreciation, guitar, piano, etc. on our school schedule as mandatory, and then she does them and is happy about it.  If not, she won't bother.

 

That might work.  Part of the problem is that he doesn't know how to entertain himself, so he wants us to direct his free time.  The only problem is that he is also prone to argue with us.  The understanding is that if he chooses to come back home next year, he needs to work on cooperating with us more.

 

I think he would like something like Lego Mindstorms or robotics.  The challenge there is both time and money.  We would be very challenged to find the money for a set, and I wouldn't know how to help him with them.  A robotics club comes with the primary challenge of time.  He already gets most of our resources as he goes to astronomy club, boy scouts, and youth group.  DD14 only has youth group.  The littles don't have any set activities, but I try to get them to activities with our homeschool group.  This group only schedules things during the school day...which comes to another challenge: How do I get them to regular social outings when he wants me to be available to do more direct instruction and maintain structure to the day?

 

I have felt like four kids have given me too many balls to juggle and I sometimes regret having more than two....not that I would ever not want my littles.  They are awesome kids.  It's just that I can't meet everyone's needs adequately anymore.

[nerdybird]

Has he had a formal Algebra course? Or Geometry?

 

If you were to hs him next year, I would look into having him take some sort of placement test to figure out where is on the secondary math scale. Math should be the primary focus for the next couple of years. Personally (and only if this is feasible for you and won't take away much time from your other kids), I would look into finding a very rigorous math curriculum with an online component that he can do on his own. Perhaps something that would take him through 3-4 years of secondary level math in 2 years?

 

I would ask around on the high school and accelerated learners boards to see if anyone knows of such a curriculum and would focus my budget on making it happen.

Why? Math will be the thing that will hold him back and keep him from pursuing his interests in physics and astronomy at a young age. If he doesn't have the appropriate background in Algebra, Geometry, Trig and Calc, it will be difficult for him to get into more advanced areas of scientific study as he gets older. Plus math is important anyway. He'll need at least 3 credits to graduate high school and 4-5 if he plans on attending college. If you are looking at competitive colleges, you'll probably want to plan for at least 1 year of calc before graduation, preferably 2 years.

 

So yeah, I'd focus on math for now.

 

I'd also have him read lots of physics, astronomy and chemistry books, as well as lots of free reading in science fiction, history and non-fiction essays, philosophy and poetry. Why? Because those things will spur creativity and unlock doors in the mind. I came across this passage while researching Isaac Newton. It stuck with me and pretty much sums up why I think you would do well to focus on math and why axillary reading is important for STEM types. Basically, Sir Newton bought a book as a young man and couldn't understand some of the illustrations due to not having studied certain topics in math...so he bought another book on math and learned it so he could disprove the foolishness in the first book! :p

 

Isaac Newton was also a Biblical scholar of sorts, obsessed with uncovering hidden patterns in the text. Einstein read Goethe, Kant and Nietzsche. Check out this list of FREE books that Neil deGrasse Tyson recommends that every person read. NdGT is one of the leading scientists of our time, so perhaps that is someone your son would know and look up to in a way.

 

If your son insists that you direct his education with an iron fist, well, that's not healthy. He's old enough to learn some self-regulation and needs to be able to handle some things on his own. However, you can kick things up a notch for next year IF he is capable of working independently. I would stress that to him. If he wants to be able to pursue his interests in hard science and math, then he must show that he is capable of managing his time and pursuing worthwhile things in his spare time. No complaining, no whining, no dwaddling and he must be productive and proactive in ALL areas of study.

 

Perhaps you should consider starting him off in a high school level physics course using Conceptual Physics as a spine? CP has problem solving and practice workbooks to go along with it, which I'd consider purchasing as well. Watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos (check to see if your local library has a copy on DVD) and/or reading the book may also appeal to him. "Death by Black Hole" is a collection of essays by the aforementioned Neil deGrasse Tyson. It is a very nice sampling of astrophysics for the armchair scientist or enthusiast and would probably provide some good prompts for essays or other writing exercises.

 

One last thing I would suggest is teaching some sort of foreign language. Latin can be rigorous and some STEM types find translating exercises and memorizing vocab to be very mathematical. Greek may prove to be of interest due to the use of Greek symbols in higher level mathematics. Also, many great foundational works of science and mathematics were written in both Latin and Greek, so knowing one or both would allow him to study them in their original forms. Asian languages can also be very appealing to the STEM mind. DH is amateur language enthusiast, as well as big tech geek/STEM-head. He is currently attempting to teach himself Chinese....*shakes head*

 

Science Olympiad may be a possible elective for him. I don't know a whole lot about it, other than I did it for 2 years in high school. It is a team thing and tied to high schools, usually, although they do have a middle grade division. There may be a team at his current school or perhaps there is something similar for homeschool kids that I am unaware of.

 

Hope this helps. :)

[Luckymama]

On phone so not sure how to quote.

 

Wrt Science Olympiad----there are homeschooler-only teams (I coach one :D). In states that allow homeschoolers to participate in extracurricular activities, homeschoolers are on the school teams.

[joannqn]

On phone so not sure how to quote.

 

Wrt Science Olympiad----there are homeschooler-only teams (I coach one :D). In states that allow homeschoolers to participate in extracurricular activities, homeschoolers are on the school teams.

I've always wanted him to do some math competitions (science sounded cool too), but I tend to not feel competition enough to lead it.  I haven't heard of anyone else doing it in the community either.

 

We do have the option to participate in public school part time and extracurriculars in this state.

 

Nerdybird...I'm going to go through your whole post can check all of your links when I have a brain again.  It's been a very hard day.   Thank you for taking the time to write all that.  His math is good.  At home, he was going through AoPS.  We plan on continuing it while he is in school in case he comes back to homeschooling next year.  If he stays in school, he'll go into geometry next year and do just what they offer at school. 

[momma2three]

He sounds surprisingly goal-oriented for a 12 year old, if he's being so persistent about physics and math because someone told him that he'd need them for astronomy.  I might use this to point out that colleges expect certain standards in ALL subjects, not just the ones that you plan to major in.  MIT wants to see, at a MINIMUM, 2 years of a foreign language, 4 years of English, and 2 years of history (http://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/highschool), and he'd better believe that pretty much everyone applying meets that minimum... and most of them are working hard and doing well in all of their courses.

 

Could you find someone who is qualified to speak on the subject, and who your son will trust, to sit down with him and talk about the REALISTIC high school academic expectations for someone who wants to go to a high calibre STEM university program?  And I don't know what your realistic expectations for him are, but I would aim high in this matter.  It sounds like he actually responds to this, so I would try it again.

 

The fact is that you have to walk before you can run, and now is the time for foundational skills, even if that seems babyish to him.  he sounds pretty precocious, so it might even be worth talking to him about how his job now is to prepare for academic work at a high school level, even if he thinks that it's boring.  Sometimes you have to do boring stuff before you can get to the fun stuff, and that's just life.

 

I only have a little kid, so I'm in no position to recommend middle school curricular materials, but I have been looking through the Galore Park books, and am really impressed.  They're pretty "cut to the chase," which it sounds like he might appreciate.

[joannqn]

Try using the bsa merit badge program. The counselor will help him come up with plans. Has he finished the Robotics badge?

 

He started in May of this year.  The only badge that he has completed is the first aid badge, and that is because it was earned over a weekend campout.  He loves astronomy, so I got him the badge books for astronomy and space exploration.  He has a merit badge counselor.  But he has done nothing on them despite my bugging him to do something about them.  I think the only way he's going to get them is if they are taught at the meetings or campouts, or I go through the badge books and start assigning him specific tasks that are required.

 

 

He sounds surprisingly goal-oriented for a 12 year old, if he's being so persistent about physics and math because someone told him that he'd need them for astronomy.  I might use this to point out that colleges expect certain standards in ALL subjects, not just the ones that you plan to major in.  MIT wants to see, at a MINIMUM, 2 years of a foreign language, 4 years of English, and 2 years of history (http://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/highschool), and he'd better believe that pretty much everyone applying meets that minimum... and most of them are working hard and doing well in all of their courses.

 

Could you find someone who is qualified to speak on the subject, and who your son will trust, to sit down with him and talk about the REALISTIC high school academic expectations for someone who wants to go to a high calibre STEM university program?  And I don't know what your realistic expectations for him are, but I would aim high in this matter.  It sounds like he actually responds to this, so I would try it again.

 

The fact is that you have to walk before you can run, and now is the time for foundational skills, even if that seems babyish to him.  he sounds pretty precocious, so it might even be worth talking to him about how his job now is to prepare for academic work at a high school level, even if he thinks that it's boring.  Sometimes you have to do boring stuff before you can get to the fun stuff, and that's just life.

 

I only have a little kid, so I'm in no position to recommend middle school curricular materials, but I have been looking through the Galore Park books, and am really impressed.  They're pretty "cut to the chase," which it sounds like he might appreciate.

He is aware of the college entrance requirements.  He just wants the areas of non-interest to be easy.  He wants to be able to check those boxes without being challenged in those subjects.  Just get them done.  Talking to him about what was working, he said that if we decide he's homeschooling next year he'll continue with AoPS, MCT, and IEW (we don't use MCT for writing).  So we have to figure out the rest.

 

Normally, he and his older sister do the same work.  She'll be doing biology. She'll also be doing Destinos, which was really hard for him.  So, I have to decide if he'll work with her (easier for me and my budget) or do something different.

[Incognito]

I can't give advice on curriculum, but I feel it might be helpful to point out to you that you sound like you feel your DS12 got the short end of the stick because you have younger kids and you are trying to make it up to him/you feel guilty about it.

 

If that is the case, please let yourself be free of the guilt and stop trying to make anything up to him.  He is no more deserving of your love and attention than any of your other kids, and he is no more slighted by you because you have other kids (unless you actively do treat him like crap, but I assume you don't).

 

I understand about feeling pulled in too many directions at once with the kids.  I haven't got that all figured out either, but when I see an imbalance I work to move things more toward the center and balance again.  Then when I'm too far another way I shift again.  It's a dance that is imperfect and I'm coming to accept that.  You can give yourself grace and accept it too. 

 

[regentrude]

Sounds like you might want to come over to the high school board for suggestions.

If he wants more structure, but you have your plate full, what about some online classes?

 

For physics, here are a few suggestions:

 

Luis Bloomfield's course How Things Work on coursera. It comes around every now and then. He also has a book.

Udacity has an Intro to Physics course

there are several physics courses through Open Courseware, but the MIT ones require calculus

MIT has also a series for high schoolers, here are two physics courses:

http://ocw.mit.edu/high-school/physics/excitatory-topics-in-physics/

http://ocw.mit.edu/high-school/physics/the-big-questions/

 

 

[joannqn]

Time to talk about goals and initiative and opportunity. Has he obtained a blue card from the Scoutmaster? Has he made an appt with the mbc for Robotics or Astronomy? 

 

ETA: Does the school have a math club?  Is he in high school next year or middle school?

 

He has his blue card for both Astronomy and Space Exploration.  His merit badge counselor for both is a leader at the astronomy club that we attend once a month.  He's met with her, and she told him to come up with a plan for how he is going to complete the badges and email it to her.  His plan included finishing them by last November; he has yet to start on them. 

 

I've emailed his counselor about math olympiad, science olympiad, and math clubs.  I'll try to get him into whatever club they have, if any.  

He'll be 8th grade next year at the middle school if he attends next year or 8th grade at home if he returns to homeschooling.  We are working together on coming up with ideas for how homeschooling could work next year.  Last night, we talked about what has been working.  Next up is discussing how we could schedule the day in a way that makes him happy and meets everyone else's needs at the same time. Then I'll get him involved in researching curricula for those subjects we'll need to change.  

 

Outsourcing is unlikely to be an option.  Online classes tend to cost at least half of my budget for four kids.

[regentrude]

Outsourcing is unlikely to be an option.  Online classes tend to cost at least half of my budget for four kids.

 

All the resources I linked for online courses are FREE.