help with saxon math placement, 5/4 or 6/5

[aim4balance]

Hi there!
My 3 boys won't be returning to their school after Christmas break.  At school they were using Saxon math.  I used the placement tests on them and my K and 2nd grader were very easy--the K student will stay with K math (he does not work above grade level which I knew), the 2nd grader easily can do math 3 (I also already knew he was very advanced in school), however my 4th grader didn't give us a clear answer based on his placement test (also something I had a feeling would happen!).

 

I gave him the placement test (my first time ever giving one of my kids any homeschool tests!) and he scored a 15 on math 5/4.  If he had scored a 16, he would have been considered for math 6/5.  I went over his mistakes, and noticed 1 of the questions he simply didn't read the problem thoroughly enough, and on another, he didn't do the addition correctly.  Meaning, I know he knows the material, but he just didn't take his time with the test.  I did pick up that he has holes with some adding of decimals (he'll add numbers with decimals correctly when its money, but doesn't add them up with the decimal in the right place when they are numbers such as 3.23, or 5.1), and he also doesn't do time that well (such as its 2:45, what time will it be in 2 1/2 hours?)  However he's always been good at math, and I really feel he's just gotten a tad lazy.  So just to see what he could do, I gave him the placement test for math 6/5, and he scored a 50%. 

 

What would you do, give this child saxon math 5/4, or buy math 6/5 but work on the holes first you know are there?  And if I did work on the holes I know are there, do I just wing it, or is there some online supplementation (that may be free, such as the khan academy or something?)  I'm asking this b/c cost is an issue, and I'm brand spanking new at this.  I want him to be challenged, but don't want to start off on a foot that is too steep.  I want us to be successful from the start.

 

Thanks for any advice!

[Guest]

I would use the lower level book to cement those holes. It is better to build on a solid foundation than a shakey one. Saxon 5/4 is meant for average 5th graders or advanced 4th graders so he will be right on target.

 

Are you planning to use Saxon 3 Homeschool or Saxon Intermediate 3? 

 

I would also advise maybe looking at starting with Saxon 1 for your Kinder. Saxon K is REALLY super basic. Most use it for prek or skip it altogether. But you know your child best. :)

 

Welcome to homeschooling!

[Ellie]

Which Saxon was your oldest doing at school? Because theoretically, you'd continue with that instead of doing the placement test.

 

I'd do 54.

[aim4balance]

Hi there,

 

Thanks so much for the quick responses.  My 4th grader was using "saxon intermediate 4" (thats what his papers say at the bottom).  Is that math 5/4?  

 

My 2nd grader was doing saxon math 2 in school, supplemented with scott foresman 3rd grade math.  I knew he'd test into saxon math 3, as we had discussions over the fall with his teacher about him skipping ahead to 3rd grade.  Part of the reason for pulling the boys out was that my 2nd grader is very advanced.  Which would be recommended, the intermediate 3 or saxon 3?  I had thought the intermediate 3 was for students new to saxon?

 

I'm surprised about the rec to start with math 1 for my child in K.  He doesn't know any money yet, and even had trouble putting numbers in order from larger to smaller...he's a young K, his birthday is mid-May.  Isn't the math 1 placement on part B of the placement tests?  He didn't do well at all on part A.  But I'm open to suggestion!!

 

Is there anyone who would buy math 6/5 for my 4th grader?  Just trying to hear all opinions.  My husbands instinct was to buy 5/4 too.

[kiana]

I would either get 5/4 and test through it (give the tests until the grade drops below 80%, then start with the lessons covered on the first failed test) or get intermediate 4 and start where your child left off in school. After intermediate 4 you should be able to move to 6/5. I think I'd go with intermediate 4 but 5/4 is also a reasonable option.

 

This would put him on target for 8th grade algebra if you take summers off. If you feel that he should be accelerated more than that, you can do so by working through the summer and not taking breaks.

[Ellie]

No, Intermediate 4 is not the same as 54, but I'm not clear on what the differences are. :-)

 

As an aside, *I* don't consider a child with a May bday as being "young." :-) I would continue with what he was using in school. The placement tests are meant for children who are not currently doing Saxon.

 

Math 54 for your oldest. I see no reason to push him ahead to 65.

[boscopup]

You can get artificially high scores on those placement tests if they're already using Saxon. I'm not sure why. They say not to use them with current Saxon users.

 

The older child sounds like he needs work on place value. That's a very important concept. I wouldn't skip ahead without that down pat.

 

The 2nd grader might do better accelerating to where he is in a mastery type program such as Math Mammoth. That's what I used when I pulled my oldest out of school (using Saxon) in first grade. MM is fairly inexpensive, so it was easier to skip chapters without feeling like I was wasting money on multiple levels of curriculum.

[Hunter]

I personally am not a fan of the primary Saxon. It's quite different from 54 on up.

 

As for the Intermediate series, I think only 3 is available to homeschoolers.

 

If money was tight, I'd get 54 for the older. You will need it anyway for the youngers.

 

Intermediate 3 is expensive, but I like it better than the regular Saxon 3. I'd probably get something else cheaper to use, until he was ready for 54, but if I were buying a Saxon 3 it would be the intermediate.

 

The little guy, I'd wing it with cheaper stuff. 54 really cleans up all gaps. Just do basic math facts and some picture books, and they are ready for 54. If you are doing anything, you can't mess it up, if you follow with 54.

[RootAnn]

The placement tests are meant for children who are not currently doing Saxon.

 

You can get artificially high scores on those placement tests if they're already using Saxon.

 

:iagree: This is important to know!!

 

I agree with going with 5/4. You want it to be a fairly easy start to homeschooling. Let him go as fast as he wants through the start of 5/4 as it should be almost all review and *really* easy at first. Concentrate on the lessons where you know there are gaps. Solidify his understanding and get him rock solid. He'll be so much better off than going into 6/5 and bogging down at some point and taking an hour (or more) to do a lesson. Like you said in your OP, you want to be successful from the start. Start him in 5/4.

 

As for your middle child, I've heard Intermediate 3 was more 'advanced' than 'regular' Saxon 3, but I really don't know anything about either. I'd probably go with Intermediate 3.

 

While I agree that Saxon K is somewhat of a preschool math program, you can certainly use it if you want. There is nothing wrong with a very gentle start, especially as you are new to all this.

 

Saxon isn't my first (or second, or third, or fourth) pick of a math program, but you'll get yourself into quite the tizzy if you start second guessing your decisions. Best of luck and  :grouphug: . You are so brave to jump in with three at once.

[Hunter]

Saxon isn't my first (or second, or third, or fourth) pick of a math program, but you'll get yourself into quite the tizzy if you start second guessing your decisions. Best of luck and :grouphug: . You are so brave to jump in with three at once.

The only reason I suggested differently for the littlest ones, is because of price. If you can afford it, don't second guess yourself, as RootAnn said.

 

It's just I wouldn't use 65 instead of 54 to save money. That is the last place I would be trying to penny pinch. I'd invest in 54 on up if I was used to Saxon and liked it.

[kiana]

As for the Intermediate series, I think only 3 is available to homeschoolers.

 

 

You can get homeschool bundles for 4 and 5 through rainbow resource. Each bundle is about 80 bucks. Not sure what precisely it includes, but I checked to make sure it was available before I mentioned it as a possibility.

[Hunter]

You can get homeschool bundles for 4 and 5 through rainbow resource. Each bundle is about 80 bucks. Not sure what precisely it includes, but I checked to make sure it was available before I mentioned it as a possibility.

That is new isn't it? Good to know they are available now. The more options the better.

[aim4balance]

Hi again!

 

Just wanted to follow up.  For those of you who emailed asking why I gave the placement tests to my kids when they were already students of saxon math--I did it based on the recommendation of the Saxon homeschool coordinator Dr. Phillips, when I called and emailed him telling him I needed to buy curriculum.  He did not mention anything about inflated scores...

 

Also, I asked this coordinator (Dr. Bruce Phillips, his email is Bruce.Phillips@hmhco.com  ), what the difference between intermediate 4 and saxon 5/4 was, and this was his response:

You can order either Math 5/4 (3^rd) or Math Intermediate 4 (Both are adapted for Homeschool use). They’re virtually identical and either one will work for your student.

I'm going to ask him about saxon 3 or intermediate 3, but I'm guessing his answer will be the same.  Why they have done things like that (have 2 curriculum that are the same but with different names) is curious...

 

In the meantime, my 4th grader came home with his half completed workbook!, so that to me is my sign to just stick with what he was doing and continue on, plus I don't have to buy a workbook for him.

 

Thanks so much everyone, for your replies and support!  I've always wanted to homeschool, and I agree tackling 3 students at once (did I mention I also have a 4 month old baby??) is brave!  I hope I can handle it!

 

 

 

[Hunter]

Hi again!

 

Just wanted to follow up. For those of you who emailed asking why I gave the placement tests to my kids when they were already students of saxon math--I did it based on the recommendation of the Saxon homeschool coordinator Dr. Phillips, when I called and emailed him telling him I needed to buy curriculum. He did not mention anything about inflated scores...

 

Also, I asked this coordinator (Dr. Bruce Phillips, his email is Bruce.Phillips@hmhco.com ), what the difference between intermediate 4 and saxon 5/4 was, and this was his response:

You can order either Math 5/4 (3^rd) or Math Intermediate 4 (Both are adapted for Homeschool use). They’re virtually identical and either one will work for your student.

I'm going to ask him about saxon 3 or intermediate 3, but I'm guessing his answer will be the same. Why they have done things like that (have 2 curriculum that are the same but with different names) is curious...

 

In the meantime, my 4th grader came home with his half completed workbook!, so that to me is my sign to just stick with what he was doing and continue on, plus I don't have to buy a workbook for him.

 

Thanks so much everyone, for your replies and support! I've always wanted to homeschool, and I agree tackling 3 students at once (did I mention I also have a 4 month old baby??) is brave! I hope I can handle it!

You CAN do it!

 

The intermediate series is a newer series, that was first released to the public schools and is now being released for homeschool. The intermediate series is more based on current public school methods. The original series is more based on older 1980s through 1990s public school methods. The intermediate series is wider in scope and has more modern problem solving vocabulary. I think the original series will be abandoned at some point.

 

As for grade 3, the original series is a kit with pieces. It's more teacher intensive and hands on. The intermediate book is more of a traditional textbook.

[...................]

Definitely use 5/4.  Intermediate 4 is very similar to 5/4 as far as topics covered.  And anyway, math is one subject in which feeling very confident and it being a bit easy, is MUCH better than feeling a lack of confidence, and it being hard.