Moving to AoPS?

[swimmermom3]

I have homeschooled Sailor Dude for math from fourth grade through eighth grade. We started with Saxon, because frankly that's all I knew that was available. He went from thinking he was bad at math to enjoying the work and insisting on self-teaching with my oversight. At some point he even chose to skip a level of Saxon so that he comfortably finished with 8/7 half way through 7th grade. We used the rest of 7th grade and all of 8th grade to do Foerster Algebra I, which seemed to be a good fit. He chose to attend ps part-time for high school. Math is one of the subjects he does at school with my best subjects being the ones we do at home. He took geometry for 9th grade, starting the year with a sub who wasn't interested in teaching and just put the work on the board. For ds, this was no problem as it meant reverting to self-teaching. At the semester that teacher left and ds was moved to the best geometry teacher at the school. He had to dig in and really work hard, but he finished with an "A" and a positive experience. For 10th grade he is currently taking Advanced Algebra II, which is very loosely based off of the second volume of Foerster Algebra. The class has 50 kids in it and is "okay" at best.

 

Ds has a very curious mind and like to know the "why" of things. As a math teacher, I am best at the "how" of things and I think even though I have gone through Calculus, ds needs a better teacher.

 

If he finishes the year with Algebra II at the school, and I am assuming since it's the advanced class, they will be doing trig, what would be the recommended path for AoPS if he does it the last two years of high school? Is that even a doable transition? Ds is probably not math competition material, but I don't want to close doors by not providing the strongest math foundation possible.

 

I have no idea if it helps in assessing where he is at in math, but we are using Chang's General Chemistry and are chapter 5 with the gas laws and he has had no difficulty with the math. Also, I am a woman who knows how to do math one way, my son's understanding is flexible enough that he sees multiple ways to approach a problem.

 

 

 

 

[Julie of KY]

I think you can transition to AoPS, but beware that some of the advanced books may be a hard transition.

 

Having completed through Algebra 2 in school, he will have covered most or all of the Intro to Algebra book. The Intermediate Algebra book covers some topics covered in algebra 2, but goes farther and deeper. At the beginning of the book, the introduction tells which chapters are important for everyone and which are just important for competition math.

 

"I" like the Precalculus book. Your son might be able to jump into the precalculus book, but the topics in the Intermediate algebra book are also important.

 

I've not yet done the calculus book, but it is much smaller and I've been told it is very theoretical.

[Kathy in Richmond]

My suggestion would be to use a combination of the Intermediate Algebra and Precalculus texts next. He doesn't have to do all of the sections therein, especially if he's not into math competitions and wishes to reach calculus before graduating. In this old thread, I gave my outline of which specific sections I'd cover. He'd still get the investigative flavor and challenge of AoPS that way. He could do it independently for the most part; the solution books are really thorough and have in depth explanations for all of the problems. And if SailorDude ever hits a sticky spot, just give a shout here!  I'd always be glad to help, as would many others. :001_smile:

[regentrude]

I would assume that his algebra 2 class at school will cover the second half of the AoPS intro to Algebra text, possibly some of what is in Intermediate Algebra, but most likely not the entire content of the Intermediate Algebra text, and almost definitely not trigonometry to the extent and depth it is covered in AoPS precalculus.

 

I think I would transition him to the Intermediate Algebra text, move quickly through the parts that are review for him, but use this opportunity to become familiar with the style of the book. He might then be able to cover the parts of Intermediate Algebra that are new to him and most of the Precalculus texts during one school year.

[8filltheheart]

Would he be willing to start in Mar and do math through Aug?   If so, I would recommend taking the alg 3 online class.   FWIW, ds had no trouble jumping into that course after Foerster's alg 2.  Dd is thinking about doing the same thing.    She won't have finished the entire alg 2/trig book, but only the alg 2 and 1-2 additional chapters.

[swimmermom3]

I think you can transition to AoPS, but beware that some of the advanced books may be a hard transition.

 

Having completed through Algebra 2 in school, he will have covered most or all of the Intro to Algebra book. The Intermediate Algebra book covers some topics covered in algebra 2, but goes farther and deeper. At the beginning of the book, the introduction tells which chapters are important for everyone and which are just important for competition math.

 

"I" like the Precalculus book. Your son might be able to jump into the precalculus book, but the topics in the Intermediate algebra book are also important.

 

I've not yet done the calculus book, but it is much smaller and I've been told it is very theoretical.

 

Julie, I think I am going to pick up both books to have on hand and take a look at over the break. I read through the contents of each on the website and suspect you are correct that ds will need to spend time with the Intermediate Algebra book. Whatever he does, I don't mind having an extra set of math books on hand as I  often need more than one explanation or way of looking at a concept.

 

My suggestion would be to use a combination of the Intermediate Algebra and Precalculus texts next. He doesn't have to do all of the sections therein, especially if he's not into math competitions and wishes to reach calculus before graduating. In this old thread, I gave my outline of which specific sections I'd cover. He'd still get the investigative flavor and challenge of AoPS that way. He could do it independently for the most part; the solution books are really thorough and have in depth explanations for all of the problems. And if SailorDude ever hits a sticky spot, just give a shout here!  I'd always be glad to help, as would many others. :001_smile:

 

Kathy, thanks so much for the link. I had not really considered him working independently and yet, if the solution books are very good, he may prefer that to a class. In fact, if they are really good, I may be able to be of some help. If I can work through a text along side ds, I am usually okay. What I discovered with the older kids, is that if I have to jump into another teacher's program and help, I really struggle, especially if they do topics in a different order than I know. Which probably means I am not a math whiz. :tongue_smilie:

 

I do appreciate the offer for help. I think SailorDude and I have probably attempted far more with the support of this board than we would have had the nerve to try on our own.

 

I would assume that his algebra 2 class at school will cover the second half of the AoPS intro to Algebra text, possibly some of what is in Intermediate Algebra, but most likely not the entire content of the Intermediate Algebra text, and almost definitely not trigonometry to the extent and depth it is covered in AoPS precalculus.

 

I think I would transition him to the Intermediate Algebra text, move quickly through the parts that are review for him, but use this opportunity to become familiar with the style of the book. He might then be able to cover the parts of Intermediate Algebra that are new to him and most of the Precalculus texts during one school year.

 

The part in bold would make sense for his junior year (next year). I could still just lump it all under "Precalculus" on his transcript, correct?

[regentrude]

The part in bold would make sense for his junior year (next year). I could still just lump it all under "Precalculus" on his transcript, correct?

 

Yes. Intermediate Algebra covers some topics usually done in precalculus, and precalculus covers some topics usually not taught in high school at all.

[swimmermom3]

Would he be willing to start in Mar and do math through Aug?   If so, I would recommend taking the alg 3 online class.   FWIW, ds had no trouble jumping into that course after Foerster's alg 2.  Dd is thinking about doing the same thing.    She won't have finished the entire alg 2/trig book, but only the alg 2 and 1-2 additional chapters.

 

Eight, you've posed an interesting pathway. I checked with ds and he actually didn't object to a summer math class. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor, but PSAT scores just came in and math was not quite where he wanted it to be. There are some advantages to this, if I understand everything correctly. Anyway, I have tried to map out the options below:

 

Option 1:

 

10th - complete Advanced Algebra II through the ps

11th - work independently with AoPS using Kathy and regentrude's plans in order to get through the Inter. Algebra Book and most of the PreCalculus text or take as classes through AoPS

12th - Calculus - which I guess if all goes well with PreCalculus would be an AP class either through AoPS or Pa Homeschoolers. Or AP Stats if ds decides enough is enough.

 

Option 2:

 

10th - finish first semester of Adv. Algebra II at ps. Move to AoPS second semester. This would mean either starting on Kathy's plan independently or maybe using Jan. to March to review and do specific test prep for ACT and then start the Alg. 3 AoPS class online in March.

 

11th - AoPs PreCalculus class or independent work. Class is 25 weeks which would allow for review for SAT/ACT and it would be done before AP tests in May.

12th - same as above

 

Would it be possible to move from one semester of an accelerated Alg. II class into AoPS's Algebra 3 class? I will try and get a list of all the topics he has covered this year before the break. At this point, all I know for sure is that they started the year with quadratic functions and complex numbers and are currently working on rational algebraic functions, but they have not covered the material in the order presented in Foerster Algebra and Trigonometry.

 

On one hand, working independently appeals to ds as long as he can get his questions answered, but on the other hand, he is thriving on the challenge that the PA Homeschoolers' class provides with its outside accountability, really bright classmates, and tough, but fair and engaging teaching.

 

 

I am grateful for the help. Educating this student continues to be a challenging project. We are nearly half way through his sophomore year and no specific predilection towards STEM or language arts is apparent. This means I still have to push the level of challenge almost straight across the board. This would be okay if ds were along the lines of a National Merit finalist, but he's not. Or rather, the issue continues to be the rate at which he works/processes. That slower speed makes advanced work across the board, painful. This is where an out-of-the box answer like the math course through the summer begins to make sense.

 

[Julie of KY]

I had not really considered him working independently and yet, if the solution books are very good, he may prefer that to a class. In fact, if they are really good, I may be able to be of some help. If I can work through a text along side ds, I am usually okay. What I discovered with the older kids, is that if I have to jump into another teacher's program and help, I really struggle, especially if they do topics in a different order than I know. Which probably means I am not a math whiz. :tongue_smilie:

My son definitely prefers to work at his own pace rather than the pace of the AoPS classes. The solutions books definitely are very good and if he's an independent learner, he can learn from these. The way my son likes to do the AoPS books is multiple books at once so that he can slow down on tough parts of one book and keep moving in math. He works through the chapter of one book, and then takes his time on the review problems at the end of the chapter while meanwhile working through a chapter of a different book. He'll end up covering multiple books in one year, but not one book at super speed.

 

If he does end up doing AoPS and needs occational help, the AoPS forum is a great place to ask questions and get answers.

[8filltheheart]

I have no answers for you.  Dd is bored to tears in Foerster this yr and is internally debating whether or not she wants to do AoPS.   (She took their online alg 1 course in 7th grade after finishing Foerster's alg 1 class and she really did not like AoPS.)   She likes to be challenged and simply isn't in math.   BUT......her days are already long b/c she is taking 3 foreign languages.   Her Russian teacher had thought they would make it through chpt 10 this school yr.   They are already in chpt 7 and she told dd that she just bought some children's Russian books for her to use after Christmas.   So, I am not sure she has the time to commit to AoPS.   But I do know that if it came down to Foerster vs. AoPS independently, Foerster would win.   I think that the major appeal to AoPS is the interaction and the extra challenge problems (which I am not sure where she is going to fit into her day.)

 

I just saw the intermediate book on the counter, so she must have been looking through it earlier trying to decide.   She has been waffling back and forth on the decision for about a month.  (fwiw.....I really don't think she should take it.   She doesn't need that level of intensity in math b/c she really has her heart set on linguistics.   And, she really is good at foreign languages, so it isn't a bad choice.   But, she hates being "underwhelmed" by what she is doing.   I can help with Foersters, but anything beyond that is literally beyond me.)

[swimmermom3]

My son definitely prefers to work at his own pace rather than the pace of the AoPS classes. The solutions books definitely are very good and if he's an independent learner, he can learn from these. The way my son likes to do the AoPS books is multiple books at once so that he can slow down on tough parts of one book and keep moving in math. He works through the chapter of one book, and then takes his time on the review problems at the end of the chapter while meanwhile working through a chapter of a different book. He'll end up covering multiple books in one year, but not one book at super speed.

 

If he does end up doing AoPS and needs occational help, the AoPS forum is a great place to ask questions and get answers.

 

Julie, which two books did he end up doing together? Has he ever taken one of their classes and if so, what was the pacing like? It looks like one two-hour evening class per week and then, I'm assuming, a fair amount of homework?

 

[Julie of KY]

Julie, which two books did he end up doing together? Has he ever taken one of their classes and if so, what was the pacing like? It looks like one two-hour evening class per week and then, I'm assuming, a fair amount of homework?

Lisa,

My son started with the Intro to Algebra book and before long added both the Intro to Counting and Intro to Number Theory. The next year he layered in the Geometry book as he finished the others. He ripped through the geometry book as that was his favorite. He is currently finishing both the Intermediate Algebra and Precalculus books. When he wants a break, he finds the Intermediate Counting and Probablilty book a nice break (an easy subject for him).

 

My son had taken several of the problem solving series classes (Mathcounts, AIME, etc.), but none of the core classes. He's itching to take Olympiad Geometry, but I'm making him wait until next year. He's likely to take any of the online classes that don't have a book, but in our household, doing the books independently has worked very well.

 

I tend to do math alongside him as that is the pattern we've developed with his severe dysgraphia. He still does almost all the work orally. The intermediate algebra book has required some writing, but this is essentially the first time he's had to do any writing to solve problems. We are spending a lot of time sorting out exactly what the underlying problems are with his writing and have stumbled upon the fact that he needs vision therapy. (He's an avid reader so we had a harder time figuring out that there were any vision issues.)

 

I find the descriptions of time required for the online class to be fairly accurate for us.

[StephanieZ]

I'd suggest Algebra 3 (Int. Alg text), then PreCalc. You can have him take the classes or self teach, but I think the classes are the way to go.

 

My eldest was in that position two years ago, as I hadn't discovered AoPS until she was already well into high school math. She stepped into Alg 3 winter/spring of Sophomore year, then decided to take precalc over the summer, so she is now in calc in her junior year. She loves the classes. She couldn't do it without them, as I am not able to teach that stuff! Anyhow, she didn't have any real trouble hopping into AoPS. I think if the child has a reasonable math background, is placed appropriately, and is motivated, they can thrive.

 

If you can afford to do it, I'd definitely go with a class.

 

Oh, and he can get on alcumus ASAP and begin working through the algebra 1&2 stuff, geometry, etc, and that will get him up to speed in the AoPS way of doing things. Plus, it is fun and cool!

 

Don't forget that AoPS offers classes year round, so if time and motivation permit, he can start a class this spring or summer and get a jump on things in case he loves AoPS so much that he wants to get in more of their books before high school runs out!

[StephanieZ]

Julie, which two books did he end up doing together? Has he ever taken one of their classes and if so, what was the pacing like? It looks like one two-hour evening class per week and then, I'm assuming, a fair amount of homework?

 

The class pacing is very intense. Classes are just once a week for under two hours, but homework is a bear. I suggest expecting at least 6 to 8 hours of work per week in addition to class, but it could easily be much more if your child tends towards perfectionism, as some of the problems are virtually unsolvable, lol. The lure of the 'blue' tends to draw my dd into spending much more time than she probably should on math, lol, to the detriment of her other classes sometimes. The classes schedule a full year's math credit in 16 to 24 weeks, so you can easily do a mini-class in some other subject during the remainder of the year. . . Or, do like dd does, and just take a zillion math credits.