AP vs. CC (slightly different question than usual)

[Matryoshka]

I've read tons of threads on AP vs. CC, but I have a slightly different question in that vein...

 

I'm trying to figure out what dd could do if she comes home for 11th/12th, and I've got a couple of questions about sequence and timing/pace of AP vs. CC...

 

A bunch of people pointed me toward AP English Language as an option, but I'd rather she didn't take in 11th, as she'll have 4 other APs that year. Then I wondered if maybe it could make sense to have her take a freshman comp course (regular or honors) at the CC, and then the AP her senior year. On the one hand, that could be great as it's only a semester course and then in the spring when APs are looming, she'd have one less course to contend with. Also, that comp course is a pre-req for practically any other CC class (may take Physics/Calc @ cc her senior year), so she'd have it out of the way. But would it look funny to take AP English Lang *after* a CC class?

 

 

[Teachin'Mine]

I would think it would depend on the reason for taking the AP test.  If it's to boost her application with a nice AP score, then taking it senior year is too late.  If she's hoping to get college credit, then it may be fine.  But I have no idea how a college would count that if it was taken in addition to a college composition course.   I'd check with a college she's interested in attending.   Personally, I'd be inclined to go with the cc composition class and forget about the AP course if she doesn't need the test score.   She could always take another English course, or two, next year.   FWIW, I'm not familiar with the AP course content but do know the benefits of cc courses. 

[regentrude]

I second TeachingMine. For applications, AP in senior year is too late. For earning credit, she should first find out if the schools she intends to apply to accept CC credit or AP credit at all. Some accept neither, but might use AP for placement purposes.

[kiana]

AP Lit is very often only accepted as a general elective -- she'd probably be better off to take Comp AND Lit at the CC. Better chance of the CC lit transferring.

[Matryoshka]

AP Lit is very often only accepted as a general elective -- she'd probably be better off to take Comp AND Lit at the CC. Better chance of the CC lit transferring.

 

Actually, I was thinking of AP Lang, not Lit. She hates Lit Analysis.

 

If she stays in school, she'd take AP Lit senior year - they don't offer AP Lang at her school, so she wouldn't be taking an AP English before senior year anyway. If she comes home, we'd do Lit on the side both years, but without having to do what she'd deem "overanalysis" of everything she reads. She actually loves to read, but the school's English classes are sucking her love dry with all the analysis.

 

She doesn't know what specific colleges she's interested in yet. Just bought the US News "Best Colleges" report today and tossed it at her and her sister so they can start to get a clue...

 

I know I never had to take a single Lit class at college, just freshman comp (and my hs didn't even offer AP). Do most colleges require a Lit class as general ed? That would actually make her more eager to take AP Lit if it got her out of ever having to deal with it again... Who does one ask at these schools to find out what they require for Gen Ed courses, or what they'll accept for getting out of them? Or is it usually on their websites somewhere?

 

If she took cc Lang her junior year, what would she do for English senior year if not the AP? Could she get away with doing Freshman Comp 2, which is Lit analysis (as much as she hates it), and each semester could = a year of high school Eng? That doesn't seem quite right...?

 

I guess I feel like the type of writing in AP Lang is going to be much more useful to her going forward than more Lit Analysis papers, which she will never have to write again ever...

[regentrude]

Do most colleges require a Lit class as general ed? That would actually make her more eager to take AP Lit if it got her out of ever having to deal with it again... Who does one ask at these schools to find out what they require for Gen Ed courses, or what they'll accept for getting out of them? Or is it usually on their websites somewhere?

 

It depends on the major. The requirements for the majors are published in the course catalog and that would normally be on the website.

 

For example, our department requires that all physics majors take two semesters of composition and one literature class, plus some more hours of electives that must be from humanities.

[kiana]

A lot of them do require one. You can find out on the websites -- search for the catalog, and look inside there for the general education requirements. You can also search for "advanced placement" and see what credit they give. At my undergraduate, the requirement was Comp I, Comp II which included Lit Analysis, and a sophomore Literature class. You could skip Comp I with a placement test, but you couldn't skip Comp II and the sophomore class except with transfer credit. General elective credit was given for AP English courses.

 

Usually a 3-credit course with a fair amount of work counts as a high school year-long course. Similarly, algebra 1 and algebra 2 will both be semester courses at the cc.

[Matryoshka]

For example, our department requires that all physics majors take two semesters of composition and one literature class, plus some more hours of electives that must be from humanities.

 

Interesting. I entered as a Business major, but later changed to a combined major. I did actually take tons of Literature classes, but none of them were in the English department (I minored in Spanish and German, and I also took Chinese Lit - in the Chinese dept. but taught in English - for fun). One semester of Comp was the only class I took in the English dept. in all four years of college. Never had to take a History class in college either (although I did take lots of social science in the Economics, Politics, and Anthropology departments that covered a lot of history topics).

 

[Matryoshka]

Hey, so if I had her take a semester of English Comp I in 11th, and a semester of English Comp II in 12th, could that along with extra books read/vocab at home count for jr. and sr. year English?

 

Would cc or AP be more likely to exempt her from Comp or other English gen ed requirements at an out-of-state or private University, do you think? I know at the State U the cc credits would transfer, but I know I've heard they don't always. Or is something basic and generic like Comp a shoo-in for transfer credit?

 

I still wonder if a whole year AP Lang course senior year would be the best prep, though for her writing strength going forward (aside from credits transferred)... or do you all think that's just overkill?

[Matryoshka]

No one has any feedback or opinions on my rambling follow-up questions? ;) :bigear:

[regentrude]

 

Hey, so if I had her take a semester of English Comp I in 11th, and a semester of English Comp II in 12th, could that along with extra books read/vocab at home count for jr. and sr. year English?

 

Sure, absolutely.

 

 

Would cc or AP be more likely to exempt her from Comp or other English gen ed requirements at an out-of-state or private University, do you think?

Ask the college. it will depend. Some accept absolutely no outside credit, and AP would be a better route for them. Other schools accept transfer credit.

[regentrude]

 Never had to take a History class in college either

 

In our state, there is now a state law that requires every college student at a public institution to take a semester of US history. A Western Civ course may be substituted, I believe.

 

[msk]

Another option for senior year English might be to look for a more specialized CC writing class than English Comp I&II.  It depends on what's offered obviously, but some places have courses in things like science writing, writing an argument, etc. that would be useful in many fields, and in future college courses too.

 

I teach at a CC, and I see many students who've been trained to write in a very artificial style I think of as "too many English classes."  They're so terrified of things like first person and split infinitives they end up writing awkward, stilted sentences that don't get their ideas across clearly.  Obviously a really good English teacher wouldn't teach in a way that led to that, but it's why I'm suggesting a different kind of writing class.  A writing course focused on conveying actual information (instead of writing thoughts and opinions down in a very specific style that's not widely used elsewhere) would fill the English credit, and perhaps teach your student something more or different about writing in contexts other than the artificial one found in an English I-II classroom.

 

I sympathize with the lit analysis pangs.  I disliked that intensely in high school, when we always applied it to novels.  Those ideas are a lot more interesting applied to nonfiction and historical documents, though, so if there's something like Western Civ that fills that requirement in college she might enjoy that more.

[8filltheheart]

Would cc or AP be more likely to exempt her from Comp or other English gen ed requirements at an out-of-state or private University, do you think? I know at the State U the cc credits would transfer, but I know I've heard they don't always.

One of the ways I have observed schools not accepting CC English comp courses is by making their freshman comp courses 4 cr hrs vs 3 and stating explicitly on their websites that 3 hr courses will not be accepted as substitutes. (This has been public universities, not elite private unis). So definitely check with specific schools.