Which BJU American history text should I use...

[hollyandab]

I'm planning on using the new Read with the Best American literature and comp program next year with my boys who will be in the 9th grade.  It is a 2 year program, and she suggests using Hakim's History of Us over 2 years along with it.  We already read those a couple of years ago.  So...I want to use BJU's American history program, but I'm not sure if I should use the 8th grade or 11th grade text.  I am planning on using the activity books along with the text and adding in historical fiction and biographies during those 2 years (9th and 10th).  Since it will be spread out, I was thinking about using the 11th grade version.  But, it is an 11th grade text (looks kinda hard for a 9th grader), and since I will be adding to it, I don't want to overwhelm them.  I have one dc that would probably be ok, but the other one will probably just let his eyes go over the words and say he read it...hmmm...  So, that makes me lean toward the 8th grade text "beefed up."  My question is, since this will be their high school American history, will they be missing anything major by using the 8th grade text?  Does the 11th text have info that is important to know before they graduate that the 8th doesn't have? But then I think about Hakim's History of Us, and I can't imagine BJU's 8th text would be easier than that.  ???  Any thoughts?

 

Thanks!

 

Holly

[Mom22ns]

BJU's 8th grade text is probably a similar level to the Hakim text, but if you are doing 2 years of American History for 2 high school credits, I would use (at least) a high school level book. BJU American is designed for use in one year. It will certainly not be too rigorous for them spread out across two.

 

FWIW, we did American History spread out over two years too. We chose college texts to go a bit deeper with the extra time.

[hollyandab]

Hmm, ok.  Thanks.  Out of curiosity, which college texts did you use?

 

[Mom22ns]

Last year we used America: A Narrative History

This year we are going to use America Past and Present

 

I haven't read enough of the second one to really say which one I like better. My kids struggled with A Narrative History. About half way through the year last year I really considered picking up BJU American instead, so I obviously don't think that is a bad choice :).

[hollyandab]

Any thoughts on America: The World's Last Best Hope?  I love the way it reads, but not sure if the "facts" come through. 

 

There was also another one suggested on this forum, but I can't remember the name of it.  Something like Patriot's History...IDK

[PeterPan]

The Bennett and Schwiekart books are harder to read than the BJU 11 US History (which I have sitting beside me).  You'll notice 2Ns was using her more challenging textbook in conjunction with the NROC online video lessons.  That way you have some kind of background when you sit down to read the book.  For your purpose, sounds like you might be happy with just the videos even, fleshing them out with the literature.  

 

MFW spreads the BJU 11 text out over 2 years for their high school cores, don't they?  Check.  You're going to be able to find inexpensive copies of the BJU 11 used, because they just put out a new edition.  Usually the changes between editions are a mix of updating the last chapter, correcting errors, refining a few things, changing the end of chapter questions, and dramatic visual/format changes.  In other words, you can pick up and old edition and it will be 90% the same.  So if someone has an old edition lying around or you can pick it up on amazon for a song, do that and read and decide for yourself.  

 

I like the BJU texts, and no *I* would not use the lower text.  However you should understand that the high school text is meant to prepare them for college.  They're supposed to slow down and read it and outline and take notes and actually interact with it.  It's not a book you just pick up and read.  It has a flow, with arguments, lists, viewpoints, cause/effect it's trying to get them to notice.  The skills you need to be successful with it are very similar to what WTM recommends doing for high school (outline the spine, interact with it), so I don't think it's a stretch to say this is worthwhile.  My dd doesn't love the text, but that's because she's not a textbook person for one and for two because she's such a nut that she reads it and knows what they DIDN'T tell you.   :lol:   For real, I finally told her to read and make notes while she read about the things that made her angry, things she noticed were left out, areas where she was left with questions, etc. etc.  We WON'T TELL HER, haha, that it's called a close reading.  We'll just let her think she's smarter than the text, haha.  :D

 

So to me BJU is about the skills I can get when she interacts with the text, not just about the content.  If all you want is content, watch videos and be in peace.  The BJU 11 has tons of great content, and you could easily spend the two years rabbit trailing stuff.  You know alternatively, if the skills required aren't where you want to be, you could decide to do the BJU 9 geography or 10 World History first.  We used parts of the 10 world history last year, and it was definitely a good springboard skill-wise.  I agree with you that it could be a jolt to go into the 11 if they've never sat down and outlined, taken notes, read reflectively, discussed, etc.  If my dd just reads something, with no notetaking, no reflection, no nothing, at the end she has just very vague, general impressions of what happened.  I really struggled in college history (ouch!), so I'm pretty sensitive to this idea that bright people can walk into a class, hit a book, and not really have the skills or background or whatever to wrangle with it and be successful.  It's a skill set that's important to me, but it might not be what you want to hit right now.  

 

I have the BJU 8 and the Schweikart and Bennett books btw.  I think you just have to get a hold of them and see what you think for your kids.  To me, I would rather slow it down, read it aloud together if necessary, and get the added thought process and content of the 11.

[hollyandab]

Thanks, Elizabeth.  (If you remember, I'm the one who went to school with your hubby--chalkboard eraser throwing...)  We've been using TOG for the last 2 years, but I was feeling a little overwhelmed looking at the Rhetoric level, so that's when I decided to do 2 years American history followed by 2 years of world history using BJU for high school.  I agree with note taking with the harder text; however, I was kind of liking the thought of NOT doing any reading with them.  That's how TOG is.  Just the discussions.  We're doing BJ's earth and space this year, and it's going well with them reading on their own and me going over the comprehension questions with them.  I was thinking that's what I would do with BJ's history, but I'm not sure they could handle the 11th grade text on their own.  I'd have to read it with them and help them outline. 

 

Right now, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.  We finished the 4 year cycle of TOG last year, and I'm a bit all over the place this year trying to pull stuff together myself.  IDK--maybe I should just return to TOG and quit stressing myself out!  It's just that the textbooks look so nice and tidy, but then I get bored thinking about doing it with them!  LOL...bleh...  The problem with TOG right now is, the D level is looking a little too easy for them (especially literature), but the R level looks, well, that ain't happenin' for a while...   :(   it looks VERY difficult.  I heard they were working on a bridge between the 2 levels, but I haven't seen anything yet.  We started this year with yr 1 of TOG, D level, but it was soooooo boring....  Anyway, right now I'm throwing MOH at them while I try to figure out a plan for high school...a plan like public school, maybe, mayhaps?  :)

 

Thanks for your thoughts and hope all is well in OH!

Holly

[Julie in MN]

Elizabeth mentioned MFW and I thought I'd clarify that MFW uses one semester of BJU and then stops to do a semester of Government around when our nation was founded. The next year, they do the other semester of BJU and a semester of Economics. So, BJU isn't really spread out, but there is a nice break in there, which is one way of doing it.

 

I think the hardest part of BJU is the detailed questions and testing, so for a 9th grader who wasn't ready for that, I think the outlining ideas might be good on their own.

[PeterPan]

Holly, I had totally forgotten the connection, what a hoot!  :)  Um, I think you're makign a mistake on your text order.  MOH is fine, but it sounds like you're not thrilled.  If you want to use BJU, jump in with their World History right now, using the text over two or three years, as you say.  Do just their middle ages chapters this year and learn those skills.  Then next year do their ancients chapters.  Years three and four you'll be plenty ready for the high school US text.  

 

I agree with you that in some ways TOG makes things hard.  It dumps into those discussions a lot of analysis and whatnot that the BJU could do for you.  When I've compared the parent notes in TOG and what BJU does, to me it's all there.  I don't do well with history, don't like to teach history, etc. etc., so it's easier for me to hand her a tidy text and study guide and tell her to read then flesh out with books and videos.  No it isn't as delicious as something that already does that fleshing out for you (TOG), and it's also possible to get so busy with a textbook you don't get to the good stuff.  I also wouldn't say my dd *loves* doing history that way.  She does it because it's easy for me and accomplishes my skill goals.  

 

That's just to say I can't guarantee your kids will like it but that if you do want to go BJU, start with the World History this year and just use select chapters.

 

You might look at Biblioplan instead.  It might be what you're looking for. 

[hollyandab]

Elizabeth,

 

I threw MOH at them because I wanted to do the Bible timeline along with history, and MOH is really the only text I knew that did that.  I'm adding Bible reading and the Early Times series (which I really like) and historical fiction along with it.  It's going ok, and the boys like it (most likely because it's easy), but I'm having them read several lessons every day which will put us in the Middle Ages by January.  Then I got thinking....yes, waaay too much thinking going on here (which is why I need something to guide me)....why not just have them read through all 3 MOH this year--easy enough as just a narrative--and then we would be good to start on American history next year!! 

 

And yes, I know about Biblioplan.  In fact, just today I was thinking I should look into it again ( I tried it several years ago), but it seems rather light for high school.  I don't know.  I'm telling you, I had 2 years of peace with TOG.  I never even looked at anything else.  Now that I'm back to looking, I'm confusing the heck out of myself.  Grrrrr!!!  I want TOG, but I really don't like the book selections for D level for the next year or 2.  I REALLY want something they can do on their own.  I'm pretty busy helping dh with his hydroponic side biz.  (This is the man who has an engineering degree and an MBA, and all he wants to do is grow lettuce!  Ack!  Thank goodness for his day job!)

 

Maybe I'll look at BP again...but I already own TOG 3 and 4, so.....

[PeterPan]

Well clearly the only solution to that is to choose something entirely different.  I vote Omnibus.  :D  (just joking)

 

Maybe you could fill in your sig?  I've forgotten the ages of your kids.  Sounds like you're very busy!  Maybe you could do some work this summer prepping to go back into TOG next year?  Maybe make your notebooks and get everything streamlined and automated? If the R doesn't fit, that's a prob.  If D doesn't fit, well mercy there are always a zillion more books to sub in.  The VP catalog has tons of options.  Dd went through the levels of the VP self-paced online history, and it was terrific.  I don't plan on doing any effortful history instruction with ds, not when I can plunk him into that and let them do the work.  :)

[hollyandab]

You know, I was just outside mowing, thinking about my "problems" with school, and I think part of it is, well, I really don't like ancient and middle ages history!  Thinking back 4 years ago, I was a bit all over the place then too.  By the time we switched to TOG, we were starting year 3, which gets me to where I like history!  So, I think you're right.  I think I will slog through the next year or so on our own, using MOH and Spielvogel West Civ as a spine and throw in whatever I want extra (like Famous Men series) just to get to exploration...which in TOG, is actually not that far off.  I think yr 2 unit 2?  Maybe they'll be ready for R level by then.  I know I should like ancient history because of the Bible history, but TOG has about 6 weeks of the first unit studying the temple and Jewish holidays....no offense, please, but that just seems like OVERKILL!!!  That's what sent me over the edge running half tilt looking for something else. 

 

I'm feeling a TOG peace coming on.....everything done for me....  Would it be wrong just to skip year 1?  LOL

 

Thanks, Elizabeth!

 

Oh, yeah, I have twin boys.  They're 13, soon to be 14 (8th grade).  One of them is a very good student, and the other, well....  Not that he isn't smart, he just thinks he already knows everything and doesn't need to read or study!  He's always SHOCKED when he scores poorly on tests! 

 

I haven't looked into how to "fill out" my sig, but we're using Chalkdust pre-Algebra (one kiddo is almost done and ready for Algebra I--guess which kiddo...); BJU space and earth; CLE for grammar, spelling, copywork; WWS I, almost ready for II, but will switch to Writing Aids if we go back to TOG--I'm getting tired of so many different books; BJU lit for lit analysis since we stopped TOG, with historical fiction thrown in there too.  Ummm, what else, well, Bible reading along with MOH and whatever else of a mess I've gotten myself into since stopping TOG....lots of Ancient Greece, China, and Rome books that I'll throw at them.  Just.  Get.  Past.  Ancient!!

[freesia]

Jumping in here--I think it would be fine to skip Ancients at this point. I had ancients but skipped the rest, and then did AP American history. I ended up a history major at a selective LAC. (I also didn't do Chem, but that is another story. . . LOL) I think it would be fine to focus on what you or they are passionate about.

[hollyandab]

Okay!!  Thanks, Freesia!  I like it!!  I think I forget how little history most kids have in ps...I probably need to quit obsessing!

[freesia]

Okay!!  Thanks, Freesia!  I like it!!  I think I forget how little history most kids have in ps...I probably need to quit obsessing!

And I should join you. LOL

[PeterPan]

Yeah if you want to do TOG 2 and skip 1 entirely, that seems perfectly fine to me.  You could do sort of a *highlights of TOG1* along with gov't their senior year.  My dd loves ancients (well and the middle ages and...) but doesn't really like american history, go figure, lol.