From Horizons math to Saxon. It's not working.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

We switched our 4th grader from Horizons math to Saxon this year and it has been a nightmare. He completed Horizons 4 last school year and has been using it from the beginning. He did great with this program always scoring 100% on his tests. The problem was with me. I didn't feel that Horizons gave me enough instruction when I was unsure how to explain a topic and would have to search online or ask a mathier person to help me with explaining. So, we switched. I had him take the placement test for Saxon and he scored in the 7/6 level. After looking through 6/5 that a friend loaned us, I felt that it would be better to start there to make the transition easier. So we took the plunge. Dreadful! That is the perfect word for how math has been going for us. We are on lesson 18 and it just isn't working. It is taking him forever to do math, problems that he knows how to do are now confusing him (either because they are explained differently or because the formula they give confuses him... and me), and he just got a D on the last test.
 

I just don't know if I should stick it out and maybe sit with him through the entire lesson or throw in the towel and go back to Horizons. Is it because Horizons wasn't really teaching him??? Or is it just that Saxon seems to teach more rote memorization and the memorizing of the formulas is confusing him? What do I do... need some guidance please.

 

[Dory]

I posted about this same sort of problem in the general education discussion. My 4th grader is using MM. last year went great, this year is like pulling teeth. Lots of tears involved and it takes hours to get through math. I went back a grade to review a little and he was flying through it all (and writing his answers in roman numerals), so we went back to 4th and he is back to the super slow painful work. From what the ladies over there said, it's the grade. They have to start using what they know a little more and things are not as simple. It's requiring him to think through it a little more and it's making for a harsh adjustment. That might be all that's going on with your ds.

We are slowing down and doing less for awhile. We'll keep plugging on, but with less at a time. I've brought in more living books as well to keep math somewhat fun in some ways so that he doesn't hate it by the time we get through this. He loves the living books.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Just went over and read your post. Sorry you are dealing with math woes too. It's SOOO frustrating. Today I sat with him for the entire lesson and even went over a lesson from a few days ago that he obviously didn't get. It went better, but he kept yawning and losing focus the entire time. Is that an age thing with boys? I don't think it's just the level of math (grade 4 math) because he did grade 4 horizons last year and did great with it and he's working on Saxon 6/5 even though he tested into 7/6 so I don't think the work is too hard for him. I think it really is just the difference in the two math programs and the style of teaching... with a TON of 9/10yr old boy stuff thrown in. I just need to decide if we should keep drudging along with Saxon or go back to Horizons.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I know others who left horizons after 3 or 4th. None had good experiences. We stuck with it. I agree horizons lacked teaching certain skills the way we know, but I too taught some things from online video sources. DS just started prealgebra with Derek Owens and he says its easy. I am so glad we stuck with Horizons. I truly believe its one of those programs you need to do completely to see the benefit. I am glad I stayed even though as teacher I was frustrated at times. DS knows his math even with a new program.

 

If you want Saxon then you may need to help guide things a bit to help the child understand their wording of things.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I must admit that the thought of going back to Horizons brings a feeling of peace to me. I know the program and how to teach it (besides those small bumps in the road), he liked it and did well with it, and I know it is a good solid math program. Does it stay in the form of a workbook the entire way through? How does that affect them later?

[Dory]

Well, perhaps you need to switch programs. I grew up on Saxon, and hated it with a passion. It wasn't that it was too hard, and my test scores were always good, but the style was torturous to me.

[Guest]

If you don't go back to Horizons, I suggest checking out CLE.  It is similar to Horizons in that it is spiral.  It is also very clear, and easy to understand.  The teachers manuals are great, and at your ds's age the lessons are often very independent.

[freesia]

I must admit that the thought of going back to Horizons brings a feeling of peace to me. I know the program and how to teach it (besides those small bumps in the road), he liked it and did well with it, and I know it is a good solid math program. Does it stay in the form of a workbook the entire way through? How does that affect them later?

DS1 did Horizons during grades 3-5 then went into pre-Algebra (he is very quick in math, I'm not sure any of my others will do this). He had to copy the problems out in 6th grade for the first time. He had no problem with it at all. I feel that Horizons prepared him well.

 

Last year I did a year with Math Mammoth with my middle 2. I loved it but my DD1 cried the whole year. We went back to Horizons and she is doing math happily again.

 

My dh, who was a certified math teacher at one time, thinks it's better to have a child feeling happy and confident about math than to have them cry daily. (This doesn't mean they should never have to do difficult problems and struggle, just that a program that is right for them shouldn't bring tears regularly).