Testing Questions, and How to Teach while Testing?

[Innisfree]

Back in the spring I posted about my 8 year old dd who is diagnosed with a mood disorder-nos. I suspected there might be learning disabilities as well, and we've spent the summer trying to get through testing, which is nowhere near done. We do have some preliminary results, and I'm wondering where we go from here, given that we plan to start school on Monday.

First, the simple question: what is the difference between educational psych testing and neuropsych? Everyone here refers to neuropsych, but my daughter's psychiatrist said that was for cases where traumatic brain injury was suspected. We are currently doing testing through a practice which does educational psych testing.

Second, we're getting some preliminary results, but it's been very rough because she shuts down every time she gets frustrated. Just folds her arms, lowers her head, and stomps downstairs to the waiting room, saying "We are never coming here again!" :glare:   So, in two hour-long sessions, they still haven't managed to get through the first (IQ) test, which was supposed to only take an hour.  Next week we have two more sessions scheduled, so we'll see.

 

Preliminary results: they say she is very smart, has a very low frustration tolerance :thumbup1: , is a slow processor, and is more verbal than visual. Still unknown: specific reading difficulties, which I suspect, and any other specifics.

 

We are on a long waiting list for a sensory evaluation, I'm scheduling a developmental vision exam, and we'll keep plugging along with testing.  But... last year she shut down and exploded every. single. day. as I tried to teach.  We need to start up again, and I'd hoped after a summer of testing we'd have more answers. 

 

How hard would you push her to read, which she's avoiding now?  She'll read a bit with books I'm not crazy about, like Junie B. Jones or Geronimo Stilton.  I'm guessing that until we know more we're at the "any reading she'll do is good" point?

 

Writing????  Her handwriting, when she chooses, is fine, but she hates to write.  Is it plausible that she has real difficulties here which should be accomodated when I know she can write neatly? 

 

How would you try to educate this child while results slowly trickle in?

[Innisfree]

Help, please, anyone???

 

I really am unclear on the difference between neuropsych and educational psych testing, and I'm hoping we're doing what will give us the information we need.

 

And I really don't know if I should simply be reading out loud to her, or asking her to read a certain number of pages/ length of time on her own, or asking her to read to me. If she reads out loud I don't know if I should be biting my tongue to avoid correcting her and just trying to note what kinds of mistakes she makes, or asking her to sound out words when she makes mistakes and pointing out words she skips.  She shuts down after a correction or two, so I don't want to make that happen, but I'm not comfortable dropping it entirely.

 

[Heathermomster]

I don't know the difference between a NP and a education psychiatrist.  I never heard of an ed psych until I came to the boards.  A reading specialist friend referred me to a NP for testing, so that's what I did.  My child has never suffered traumatic brain injury either.  The local NPs that I've spoken with do nothing but testing for learning disabilities....A NP will tell what you what they specialize in, if you ask.  Anyho...

 

DS is a gifted dyslexic/dysgraphic/dyscalculiac.  He has no mood disorders that I'm aware of, so take what I say with a grain of salt.  Google ed psychs AND NPs in your area.  Call them.  Explain your situation and ASK them about testing.  Call nearby cities if you have to.  Speak with them and find out who you need to see.

 

Seems like you need to get the mood disorder under control prior to anything else at this moment.  Perhaps someone with experience in this area can speak with you off list.  Blessings, h

 

 

[Innisfree]

Heather, thank you for your ideas.  We've been working with therapists for years now, and a psychiatrist for most of the last year, going through the process of sorting out medications and trying to control the mood issue.  That set of symptoms has improved considerably, and I guess I was assuming that a learning disability might account for some of the remaining problems. 

 

I do think something is causing problems with reading.  She is very good with reading short, basic words, up to three syllables or so, but she tends to guess (wrong) when she spots an unfamiliar word, and has trouble sounding them out.  She also skips or fills in small words which aren't there.  She seems frustrated with reading and is much more unwilling to read than to do some other things.

 

I just don't want to increase her frustration or make matters worse.  Improving medication seems to take months, turning into years, and getting test results almost as long.  And we have to go to the test providers the psychiatrist referred us to, but hearing everyone use different terminology made me worry we were spending this months-long process with the wrong people.  I can't just put off teaching her on the assumption that someday we can fix the mood issues. 

 

Reading back over this, I can see my own frustration coming through.  Please don't think it's aimed at your answer.  I really appreciate ideas, and you're certainly right that the mood disorder is huge... maybe more of what's happening than I realize.

[Heathermomster]

nm

[City Mouse]

Sounds like you have a tough situation to deal with. I don't have any direct experience, but since it doesn't seem like anyone else does either I will give you my thoughts.

 

I do have a relative who has a child with Bipolar Disorder. He was first diagnosed around 5 or 6 years old. It is supposed to be very unusual to be diagnosed with that disorder at such a young age which made effective treatment very difficult for many years. The boy is a teenager now and seems to have his medication well regulated, but there were many years of very difficult times. He had a very difficult time in regular public school and was several years behind in academics. Until his disorder was stabilized he really couldn't learn new material. I remember him being about 3rd grade and his mom being very excited when he could read a DR Seuss book all by himself. When he has good years his earning progress quickly. He is now able to read on grade level still has other issues. Public school was difficult for him to handle at time, and he has had many different kinds of placements over the years. He is currently in a private (and very expensive) private school that focuses on kids with extreme differences. The education there is customized for each student and does not follow public school standards at all.

 

My son has a LD in reading and writing. (Has been in public school but will be at home this year) he will often get overwhelmed just looking at a an assignment and shut down.

 

 

Now for my thoughts

 

First I would get rid of any expectations of what you think your child should learn by a certain time. A kid that that can only learn on her schedule (when her disorder is stabilized).

At this point if struggling with reading is causing major meltdowns, I would just remove that obstacle to her education. As much as possible, I would have her read along with a recording. That was she is still being presented with the material, but you are not having to correct her so often. That takes some of the pressure off you and keeps you from being the bad guy.

 

When her disorder is better controlled you could focus more on reading. How you describe her reading does sound similar to my son except that three syllable words would be difficult for him. Even if without a specific diagnosis, I started using the Barton program with him this summer. I thought the beginning levels would be very easy for him, but I have found that he has a lot of little gaps that are being discovered. Barton is expensive, but breaks e erything down into very small steps so he can be successful most of the time. That is really helping with his confidence.

[geodob]

The basic difference between and an educational psych and a neuro-psych?

Is that with educ psych training, their is a greater focus on how 'disorders' will effect learning in an academic environment.

While with neuro-psychs, the training has a greater focus on the brain processes that result in 'disorders'.  So that they can look a little deeper, into the underlying causes.  But they are no way limited to traumatic brain injury.

 

So that with your daughter, an educ psych might have a better understanding of how your daughters learning will be effected .  With limited understanding of the underlying cause.

While a neuro-psych may have a better understanding of the underlying cause, with a lesser understanding of its effect on learning, and learning different subjects.

 

But a crucial point, is that you said that she is 'much more unwilling to read than to do some other things'.

Where a functional disorder that effects the ability to regulate and control mood, has a global effect.   It doesn't just effect some things, and not others.

So that this raises the possibility that her mood issues may be a 'symptom'?

It also raises the question of whether she may have some over-lapping issues?   Where it confusing enough to have to cope with one issue.  But a combination of issues could become overwhelming? 

So that a neuro-psych could be more helpful than an educ-psych, to gain a clearer understanding?

[Snowfall]

We originally did the educational psych testing, but their results just didn't have enough clarity or advice, and some of their advice...meh. For instance, we have a *very* writing averse kid with sensory issues specifically related to writing. Forcing her to write holds up her education, because it takes forever and frustrates the heck out of her. The educational psych's advice was to make her write more, never even acknowledging how it might be a problem or discussing how we might do that, when writing makes her start screaming because she can't stand her fingers touching each other. We're now going back for a more in depth eval from a neuropsychologist, and she *does* give educational advice, because her testing results are given to schools, used in lawsuits when schools refuse to provide accommodations, etc. Her report and testing just more thorough than the psychoed eval was.

[Innisfree]

Thank you for all the good ideas!

 

City Mouse, I think you're right about not holding up other areas by tying them to reading.  For the moment I think I'm just going to drop any expectations there, wait for the testing results, and see what they say.  I like the idea of having her listen to an audiobook while reading, if she seems interested in the reading part at all.

 

Geodob and Snowfall, thank you for the explanation about educational versus neuropsychological testing.  It sounds like what we're doing now may be more of a starting point than a complete explanation.  And yes, geodob, I agree that it's not entirely clear if issues are overlapping.  I suspect they are.  One frustrating element is that all the diagnosis is completely subjective, and each doctor sees things through the lens of his/her own experience.  Even the mood disorder diagnosis is not absolutely certain.

 

Anyway, again, thank you all.