lewelma Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 My ds is a very mathy kid and is also a planner -- he really wants to get an idea of his career options. He definitely wants to be a mathematician and has long considered theoretical physics as his only option. Given that we want him aware of many options, we have been suggesting lots of other ideas over the past few months and have finally hit upon one that is interesting to him -- the math behind artificial intelligence. We have told him that artificial intelligence is in everything from investment banking to big data marketing. However, he is not interested in computer science as a career, but he is interested in how the brain works and does like biochemistry. So he has asked me to design a course to give him a feel for the subject, and I am at a loss. I have found that Coursera is running a computational neuroscience course right now that my ds and dh watched last weekend. It is tough! But ds *was* interested. So I was thinking of having him focus on the chemistry of the brain and the history of artificial intelligence. The problem is that I need to link it in some way to mathematics, and I just don't know where to start. If anyone knows anything about this topic, please point me in the right direction. I am not even sure what this field is called if you want to approach it as a mathematician rather than a computer scientist or biologist. Thanks, Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in Richmond Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I have no idea what to use for coursework at your son's level, but a frequent Mathcamp visiting lecturer is Josh Tenenbaum from MIT. He's a professor of cognitive science, working with the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence (CSAIL) lab there, and his specialty is building mathematical models of human and machine learning. He's doing some pretty nifty stuff at the intersection of the three fields you mention. Check out his website & maybe you'll find some ideas. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I was going to point you in the same direction as Kathy! I actually was a graduate student with Josh at MIT back in the previous century. Besides the CSAIL lab, check out MIT's Media Lab, where they do AI work. I would check out MIT's open courseware page and browse through their offerings, to - they have syllabi, lectures, etc. from many MIT courses available online, and there might be some things that grab there. http://ocw.mit.edu/courses MIT has such unique and hard to categorize stuff going on in this area, just browsing through this stuff may give you guys some interesting things to pursue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 Thanks ladies! So if I were to assume that the math is far beyond us, what exactly should he study? Am I looking for a neurosciences textbook? An artificial intelligence textbook? And if so, can you recommend any that are somewhat easy? I also don't mind buying cheap second hand textbooks and then having ds just do the first 3 introductory chapters, or whatever. Or perhaps I want more of a "dummies guide to the brain" or something written for a lay audience. ETA: just looked at the MIT opencourseware link! um, WOW! Now I'm going to be overwhelmed with choice. Will be interesting to see how understandable some of these lectures are. I think he wants brain anatomy (which I think is a dissection class), and cell and molecular neurobiology (which is obviously going to go over his head as it is a grad course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 Interesting. So I think I just want an intro course, because ds will definitely not be able to read any cutting edge math papers on the topic!! The problem is that he wants to do MATH as a career, but wants to get a feel for the fields in which he might use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathie in VA Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 As a computer scientist major/math minor myself, I just had to do a quick search... found this at amazon: http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/0818672005 ETA: and one more: http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Neuroscientists-Fabrizio-Gabbiani/dp/0123748828 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 As a computer scientist major/math minor myself, I just had to do a quick search...found this at amazon:http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/0818672005 Super cool! I think he could just read the beginning of each chapter to get a survey and not hit all the math, but yet still see how it could be used. Excellent. So how exactly does AI connect with Neuroscience? Or does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathie in VA Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 So how exactly does AI connect with Neuroscience? Or does it? ug we must have posted at the some time... I edited my post with another link.. just on this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 ETA: and one more: http://www.amazon.co...i/dp/0123748828 :scared: :eek: :blink: um, not this one! But it is getting me thinking. He needs the content without the math right now because he has not taken any calculus yet. So looking for books verbally describing the goals of AI and how researchers use the knowledge of how the brain works to inform their AI projects. Thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 What about this one? http://www.amazon.co...PXG8H6N20X6M3FC Or this one? Sometimes introductory texts for non-majors can be a more approachable way to start with a topic. http://www.amazon.co...9RR7MNARJGBZYJ9 As far as the MIT opencourseware classes go, check out 9.01, Introduction to Neuroscience. This will probably not be too far out of reach. Ooo, I like the look of the textbook it uses: http://www.amazon.co...itopencourse-20 I've heard Mark Bear speak, and he's excellent, I'd guess this is a well-written introductory text. 9.14, Brain Structure & its origins, would be a good follow-up, focusing on Neuroanatomy. One of it's texts, the Nauta one, is kind of The Bible: http://www.amazon.co...itopencourse-20 The Computational Neuroscience class they offer, 9.29, is wayyyyy over my head, so I can't make any intelligent suggestions about that! Those might be the things I'd start with. I'm going to try and look for some good AI reading suggestions, too, but I'm out of time right now, I'll come back later this eve or tomorrow morning with some more suggestions in that realm. ETA: I should have explained, for MIT you want to look for Brain and Cognitive Sciences, which is course 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Ok, just had to throw one more name at you: Marvin Minsky, kind of the granddaddy of AI/Computational Neuroscience. This website has a lot of cool stuff on it, to his writings, and links: http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Thanks heaps! I am currently in the middle of Science Fair (both organizing for all homeschoolers, and finishing with my dc) or I would go look at all those references right now! Will get back to you with questions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Or this one? Sometimes introductory texts for non-majors can be a more approachable way to start with a topic. http://www.amazon.co...9RR7MNARJGBZYJ9 I think it is this one!!! Mixing AI with neuroscience! As one reviewer said: how the abstract concepts of neural networks approximate (or fail to approximate) the biological reality. Ok, showed ds all the links. We finally have a name for what he is interested in learning about - cybernetics or computational neuroscience. yea! nice to have a couple of names to research! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Just thought I would post the list of books I have finally decided on, in case anyone else is interested. A bit of this and a bit of that.... but mostly at at a beginners level. Biozone's Biochemistry The Human Brain Book Godel, Escher, and Bach Physics in Mind: A Quantum View of the Brain From Computer to Brain: Foundations in Computational Neuroscience Coursera's Computational Neuroscience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I like your book list. I thought I'd just share a few musings, fwiw. You can do computational neuroscience without knowing anything whatsoever about the brain. Unfortunately, a lot of people do this! I think it's so great that your ds wants to learn some anatomy & physiology and biochemistry. It will make him (should he choose to pursue this) a much better, more interesting researcher who is capable of coming up with biologically plausible models & systems. And it isn't hard! Learning the requisite anatomy & biochemistry takes being able to read a few textbooks (which I know you are preparing him to be able to do). From where I sit, the math is the really hard part! So tell him not to be intimidated by the "brain science" part of it, he will pick that up with no trouble. Also, if it's not insultingly obvious to say so, AI - figuring out how to make machines who can do things people do - is a very hard problem, and it's a very different problem than figuring out how brains do the things people do. There are two different paths there, both of which could be very rewarding. When people get into trouble is when they conflate the two . . . imo. I'm excited for your son! I hope he enjoys this study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in Richmond Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Did you know that MIT has an OpenCourseWare class for high schoolers on the Godel, Escher, Bach book? It was designed by MIT students for 7th to 12th graders attending enrichment classes on campus, and contains video lectures, notes, and resource links. Might be fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Rose, thanks for your musings! Now, I just have to make sure he has quiet time to read the books! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 No, I didn't know about the MIT course. I will definitely look into it! Thanks Kathy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Ruth, I'm sure you probably saw these MIT courses for high school students, these might fit in nicely to give your son a background for his readings: http://ocw.mit.edu/high-school/courses/introduction-to-cognitive-neuroscience/ http://ocw.mit.edu/high-school/courses/godel-escher-bach/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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