Vent--Too many questions, feeling helpless

[Ravin]

DD started K early because she seemed to be ready. Teaching her to read proved less than effortless, and she started slowing down in her progress in math in 2nd grade. It seems that while her ability to grasp concepts and her interests are still ahead, her ability to process and her basic skill acquisition in the 3 R's are just creeping along, and she's developed horrid anxiety and is starting to have a very negative view of her own abilities.

 

We've been trying for over a year to figure out what's wrong so we can work on it (or around it, or both) and get some professional guidance on how to best do that. Last year, in 3rd grade we had her evaluated by the school district, and they reported that because she was working on grade level, they wouldn't do an IEP and at most would give her extra time on assignments because her processing speed was low. Intervention isn't done until a student is 3 grade levels behind in an area.

 

We've been able to get her psych intervention for her anxiety, but it feels like we're treating the symptom without doing anything about the underlying problem. We're on a wait list for an edupsych eval (after giving up on months of trying to get insurance to pay for a neuropsych eval) at the university.

 

Seeing DD's misery and frustration lately makes me just as frustrated. Our last day of lessons was torture. One big reason for homeschooling is that I want to protect her love of learning and i feel like I'm failing at that, badly. At the same time, I don't see any other alternatives that would do any better--quite the contrary.

 

It's definitely time for a rehash of what we're doing and finding better approaches. I'm tired of banging my head against a wall, and watching DD doing the same. Yet we still haven't gotten those answers/diagnoses/advice we need to sort it out.

[Trilliums]

DD started K early because she seemed to be ready. Teaching her to read proved less than effortless, and she started slowing down in her progress in math in 2nd grade. It seems that while her ability to grasp concepts and her interests are still ahead, her ability to process and her basic skill acquisition in the 3 R's are just creeping along, and she's developed horrid anxiety and is starting to have a very negative view of her own abilities.

 

 

 

Sounds like my DS who was dxed Nonverbal LD and at the time the evaluator said that basically meant he was dyslexic. Who knows what he really is...but I can tell you it took me a couple of years to restructure my thinking about what education should look like. I had to give up on most of my preconceived notions of how we should spend our days. To me, education at home was supposed to include a lot of written output to support or show my kids were making progress. They can progress and absorb so much beyond the basics though. I finally figured I was actually limiting us by focusing too much on the basics (by which I mean the mechanics of writing, learnign spelling rules, learning math computation, doing drills). Your daughter is very young and has time to acquire academic skills. I would back off on the structured academics for now. She can grow and learn without worrying about the 3 Rs for now. Help her develop conceptual understanding and thinking skills. Reading and talking and doing stuff was the best way for us to achieve this in our family. Turns out my kids did not have a narrow window of opportunity for learning the basics of education.

[Tiramisu]

Read all of OhElizabeth's posts. They will give you lots of things to think about.

 

I also have one with processing issues that have caused a lot of frustration, anxiety, etc. You're not alone in that. :grouphug:

 

Wait for the evaluation and go from there. And be patient with her and yourself. Your smart girl is still there, you just have to find out what works for her. That may be through trial and error and take some time, but she's young. Protect her love of learning, go as slow as you have to, and praise her at every opportunity.

[Tiramisu]

I'm back because I read this on your other post:

 

She grasps concepts quickly but terminology and notation (writing anything, including math, with the same difficulties she has in other language learning) and multi-step processes are all problems for her. She also doesn't handle jumping from one thing to the next too quickly well, and it can be hard to tell if she's paying attention.

 

She balks if she sees too much on a page at once. If something doesn't immediately register amd make sense, she freaks out. If there are too many steps to deal with, she freaks out.

 

Wow! We really have the same problems.

 

Could I tell you what math program might be a good solution? MUS. We tried all sorts of stuff and dd did well, except for Saxon. Talk about jumping around and crowded pages. Saxon was a nightmare for her. But we had a fine time with Foerster's Algebra 1 (nice, neat format), and even TT Geometry and Algebra 2. But she somehow had a relaxation factor with MUS that has not been captured with other programs. We've only used MUS for Pre-Algebra and Pre-Calculus, so I don't really know what it would have been like if she used it all the way through.Would it have hurt her SAT scores? I would almost be willing to trade a few points on the math section of the SAT for peace at home. LOL.

 

But honestly, the pages don't overwhelm. There's a very standard format to MUS so they know what to expect, visually and conceptually, too, because there's not a lot of switching around from topic to topic. For dd, also, unusual notation (set notation, functions) can be a trigger. In Pre-Calc, she'll often use "theta" again and again because alternating with too many other "variables" can push her over the edge.

 

Let me tell you about what I know about what could be going on, in case it helps, but I think you already know. Dd has an official dx of auditory processing disorder, a subtype called an integration deficit that often goes along with visual and visual-motor weaknesses. We found out recently that she has those, too, not enough of it for a DCD dx but enough to slow her down significantly.

 

She recently told me that to read a clock, she has to look at it, and then close her eyes to be able to figure out what the time is. She can't tell the time while looking at it. She also has described episodes when she's trying to listen and look at something at the same time, she will just see spots, as though she cannot visually process anything complicated that requires significant concentration while listening.

 

Dd's troubles really became obvious in fourth grade. Before that, I thought I had a genius on my hands. Does that sound familiar? The good news is she is finishing high school, having accommodated her needs along the way. She did fine on the SAT's even without accommodations and has her college acceptances into an area where she is likely to do well. Be hopeful for the future!

[PeterPan]

Ravin, this is just my two cents, but I would make sure the person you're on the wait list to see is going to be able to give the answers you need. Call the person and ask them upfront what tests they'll run (they will list a bunch of letter names, write everything down so you can google them) and figure out if it's actually going to ANSWER THE QUESTION. I don't know what your dc's issues are well enough to know what the question is, but I can tell you that if the question is spectrum or NVLD or adhd or whatever and you don't come out with the answer, you're still left frustrated. I don't know what all ed psychs do, and I'm sure it varies anyway. I'm just saying make sure, before you wait.

 

Two, the benefit we got from evals was so great, I would go into debt for it.

 

Three, I suggest you read something outlandishly beyond the label you want to hear (a book on spectrum, NVLD, adhd with anxiety, etc.), pick the mix that most closely matches where she seems to be operating, and make changes based on that. Go way out of the box and make changes you would be willing to make if you heard that label formally. You aren't going to screw it up. Stop and list out on paper what the problems are right now, then make another page on what it would take to solve them. Then do it. Sometimes we *know* the answer inside or have some intimation but don't really *like* the answer, if that makes sense. Maybe like isn't the right word but rather we don't feel brave enough just yet. The eval made me brazen. :)

 

Four, try searching just the SN board here with the term anxiety and see what pops up. An evening reading on that might give you a lot of ideas. I'm guessing there have been so good books in the past mentioned for it. I don't have a list like that handy, but I'm pretty sure they've been mentioned in the past. In fact I'm positive they have. Anxiety, transitions, these are terms that will pop up books to help you. These are the types of buzzwords.

 

You can start to notice these things in her now in fact. Notice how she transitions. Try to notice how fast (or slowly) she processes. Even though you don't have numbers, you can see it happening. With me it was more that I was just so frustrated, I didn't know there was a WORD for it, if that makes sense. Once you get words for it, you move on to how to respond (if that makes sense).

 

But yeah, in general, just pick a label you think might be it based on your reading and make the changes. They won't be perfect, but it's at least a start. Look at your list and think about what works and what is provoking frustration. I can't remember her age, but I think in general you can't go wrong erring towards ways you work well together. You find one thing that's working (cuz maybe there is only ONE thing that's working!) and you go dude, how do I harness that *one* thing and carry that success over to something else? Why is that *one* thing working? That's how I've found our greatest successes, when I used that approach. But to do that you have to put blinders on. ;)

[PeterPan]

I'm back because I read this on your other post:

 

She grasps concepts quickly but terminology and notation (writing anything, including math, with the same difficulties she has in other language learning) and multi-step processes are all problems for her. She also doesn't handle jumping from one thing to the next too quickly well, and it can be hard to tell if she's paying attention.

 

She balks if she sees too much on a page at once. If something doesn't immediately register amd make sense, she freaks out. If there are too many steps to deal with, she freaks out.

 

 

 

handle jumping = transitions

freaks out with multistep and too much=can't break problems down into parts (EF=Executive Function)

 

Sometimes they can't handle multi-step and breaking things down because their working memory is low. They literally lose the first thing when they move on to the 2nd and 3rd. So you start using a whiteboard as a source for external RAM. At least that's how we do it. And you break the steps down explicitly before you start. You write them down at the top of the board in order.

 

Transitions you deal with by minimizing them and having clear expectations, clear plans. It's sort of an odd thing when they're young because they might not actually be able to focus for a long time on an individual thing and need breaks, but the transitions are hard to come back from. So you clump like things and make the day flow so it's short little sessions but together with no transition. At least that's what we do.

 

too quickly = watch her processing speed. Watch what happens when you ask her questions and how long it takes her to give you the answer. If you find yourself biting your tongue a lot (or frustrated and not biting your tongue, oops), then you're starting to get a word for it.

 

Like Tiramisu says, you really need someone to sort it out for you. Could be none of this is what's going on. These are just some terms to get you started, things you can watch for.

 

Btw, when you look at books like Cindy Gaddis, Jeffrey Freed, etc., there seems to be the concensus that people people who are adhd, spectrum, etc. will turn out to be R-brain dominant, VSL, etc. Might be another way to read to see if there are things there you could harness to make your day go better or maybe an explanation of why certain things *are* working. It seems to come out as this need to create (beyond the norm, with intensity), and it's the medium that varies. Again, it's something positive to harness at a time when things are seeming very negative. If you find that thing, then you can explore one (or more!) of your school subjects with it and ditch the more formal/WTM methods. For instance you can read aloud history while they build in their preferred medium. Or go even further and ditch the read aloud and just build. :)

[PeterPan]

Here's a book for you, got mentioned on the boards here a while back and sounded very good. If it's not exactly what you need, the thread where it got mentioned had more.

 

Unstuck and on Target!: An Executive Function Curriculum to Improve Flexibility for Children With Autism Spectrum...

[Ravin]

Thank you, everyone! OhElizabeth, in particular, your post had me going yes, this! a bunch of times.

 

We already use a white board for math and grammar exercises and spelling practice. The freak-out comes when she sees the problem. I don't get a chance to break it down for her before she freaks!

 

We made a poster of the steps of long division. On Monday, we were working on the whiteboard and used the poster, and I made her work through her freak-out (felt like a jerk about it), and she actually had an easier time of it than on the previous problem. I'm moving us to the driveway to do it in chalk so she can get her whole body involved on Friday, and see where that gets us. She also brought home some worksheets from her enrichment program she's excited about.

 

She does seem to lose track of which numbers she's supposed to do what with in a long division problem, and from one step to the next it all just refuses to stay coherent for her. She told me today it's like the numbers take over her mind and growl at her and whirl around in her brain. I told her our goal was to get those numbers to dance to an orderly tune.

 

I totally get what you're talking about with respect to the conflict between transitions and the need for breaks. And I DO bite my tongue a lot (or annoy her by not giving her long enough to answer) on a lot of things.

 

I am letting go a lot of the WTM stuff. I have my eye on a writing program targeted at students with learning disorders for next year, and for now her composition is following the lead of what she wants to do (at present, she's doing a presentation on the Wright Brothers. I have no idea what sparked it, but we're running with it!) The rest of our year in math is going to be outside the box fun, and we'll pick back up with Fred (which she LOVES as a read-aloud and is usually receptive to) and maybe something else to reinforce/practice in the fall. Latin she's actually enjoying, go figure! More than the other subjects, we've taken that at her pace.

 

Part of the stress is that we are going to have to put her in school in a couple of years because I'll be working full time, and I want her to be ready and confident for that. She wants to go to a performing arts school (there are several good charters in our area with that focus), and I want her to be ready.

 

If we were planning on homeschooling through high school, I'd be less worried.

 

 

handle jumping = transitions

freaks out with multistep and too much=can't break problems down into parts (EF=Executive Function)

 

Sometimes they can't handle multi-step and breaking things down because their working memory is low. They literally lose the first thing when they move on to the 2nd and 3rd. So you start using a whiteboard as a source for external RAM. At least that's how we do it. And you break the steps down explicitly before you start. You write them down at the top of the board in order.

 

Transitions you deal with by minimizing them and having clear expectations, clear plans. It's sort of an odd thing when they're young because they might not actually be able to focus for a long time on an individual thing and need breaks, but the transitions are hard to come back from. So you clump like things and make the day flow so it's short little sessions but together with no transition. At least that's what we do.

 

too quickly = watch her processing speed. Watch what happens when you ask her questions and how long it takes her to give you the answer. If you find yourself biting your tongue a lot (or frustrated and not biting your tongue, oops), then you're starting to get a word for it.

 

Like Tiramisu says, you really need someone to sort it out for you. Could be none of this is what's going on. These are just some terms to get you started, things you can watch for.

 

Btw, when you look at books like Cindy Gaddis, Jeffrey Freed, etc., there seems to be the concensus that people people who are adhd, spectrum, etc. will turn out to be R-brain dominant, VSL, etc. Might be another way to read to see if there are things there you could harness to make your day go better or maybe an explanation of why certain things *are* working. It seems to come out as this need to create (beyond the norm, with intensity), and it's the medium that varies. Again, it's something positive to harness at a time when things are seeming very negative. If you find that thing, then you can explore one (or more!) of your school subjects with it and ditch the more formal/WTM methods. For instance you can read aloud history while they build in their preferred medium. Or go even further and ditch the read aloud and just build. :)

[Tiramisu]

More thoughts about the visual component. When dd had a visual processing evaluation with a COVD fellow, he found that she did not have a visual processing problem per se. He was able to identify, by changing the parameters on the section of the testing that's done on the computer, that dd has a neurological issue that's slowing down her visual processing. I'm bringing this up because you may find that a vision processing evaluation might be worth considering as you proceed with evaluation. The neuropsych picked it up but it was good for *me* to have another professional, a true vision specialist, come up with the same findings.

 

And, since you mentioned the possibility of a performing arts school, the developmental optometrist recommended music as probably the best thing I could do for my dd, better than any therapy he could come up with, he said. Music works on the eyes, the gross and fine motor skills, the auditory processing, and the integration of all of them. He also said that the speed of dd's visual processing can improve by achieving greater degrees of automaticity. So, he told her to keep reading a lot.

[Ravin]

DD is in band this year at her enrichment program, along with creative drama. She's doing well in it, though she has not always agreed with my assessment of her progress nor enjoyed practicing--she likes being able to DO, not so much having to LEARN, if that makes sense.

 

She was playing mostly by ear and demonstration at first, but is starting to read music and can make better sense of a fingering chart than I can at this point.

 

I'm also quick to point out whenever she's better at something than I am. She's above average intelligence at least, her brain just works very differently from mine which makes figuring her out difficult (I'm not that great at figuring out people to begin with, so...)

[PeterPan]

Ravin, what you may be seeing with the music practice is that she's *memorizing* to cover up that she isn't automatic at reading the music. At least that's what happened to us.

 

I agree with Tiramisu that a dev. opt. exam (even just a basic one) is a good idea for everyone. If you get a regular exam with the dev. optom, you can talk with them and they can *screen* for things like convergence and focusing that affect school work.

 

You should start working on working memory. It may help with the numbers floating around and away. And you can get books through the library on EF (executive function). EF is a part of the brain, is developmental, and affects WAY more than you'd ever believe. It's also something you can impact, so definitely do some reading.

 

I'm concerned about your math plan. Math is not the kind of thing that benefits from lack of attention. I didn't respond in your other math thread here on the SN boards, because the approach seemed so foreign to what I would have suggested. I suggest you look for something very do-able and plodding. Then kick it up with your fun/stretch stuff like LoF. It's possible for a student to like the plot of LoF (my dd certainly does!) and have it NOT be a good way for them to learn math. Learning concepts and becoming proficient are two separate things. I don't recall if you've done standardized testing, but you should. This is NOT a problem that goes away, and lack of attention to it does NOT help. You have almost a full school year between now and fall. Use that and pick something practical and plodding that you can do EVERY DAY. EVERY DAY. EVERY DAY.

 

Did I say that enough? Do math EVERY DAY. If she's behind, even do it on Saturdays. If you don't, you're not working with the transition issue and you're not taking advantage of this chance to put into her.

 

There's this real confusion and idea out there that only the best is acceptable. I think some of these curricula like SM and MM are fine in general, but I think it's wise to view your dc realistically. On standardized tests there are breakdowns. Math is not all one or the other. The ones we've done break down conceptual and computation, so I've tackled them separately over the years. I suggest you do this as well. Nothing mean or cruel, nothing that leaves her in tears or sweating 40 minutes over 1 page. It's ok to do *1* division problem a day for a couple months. I did 1 division problem a day when my dd was 7, 8 ish. Then she went up to 3-4. When she could do a few more like that, I put them on slips like a scavenger hunt with rewards. Mix it up and shake it up. If conceptually she can only handle 1 division problem a day, FINE, you do that. Then you go to later in the textbook and pull a page on measuring or time or geometry or something she's awesome at and you do that page. And then later in the day you play a game that just HAPPENS to use math. ;) Then you plodded on the hard conceptual, made tracks on the stuff that's easy, and practiced computation. Multi-pronged approach. DON'T just stop doing math, don't rely on Fred, and don't fail to take advantage of this time.

 

Did you see Tara the Liberator's post about a Houghton Mifflin text? It was in the long TT thread on the other board. Pick something sensible and standard, something doable that isn't so hard that it's blowing her out of the water, something she can comprehend and DO. Do that DAILY, 5-6 days a week, for short sessions, without fail. Then your Fred and games and whatnot come in to balance it out.

 

Btw, I don't know the age of this little, but short means 20 minutes, maybe 30. I wouldn't do more than 35 minutes of math TOTAL per day. So like 20 minutes of regular, 10 min. of Fred, and 5 min. of some form of computation practice (games, competition, Flashmaster, flashcards, whatever). There are some really jolly apps these days for fact practice.

 

If you like SM so much, then just use the word problems from it and do 3 a day during your 10 min. brain stretching time. The other 20 min. is that more plodding, do-able curriculum. TT is much maligned and a little pricy, but it can be good. I used BJU at that age and like it a lot. Or find a freebie ps text and use manipulatives with it. But only 20 min., no matter what.

 

You're going to get there. There are no miracles. The labels help, but they won't make the problems go away. Tackle them head-on. You said she freaks when she sees the problem. So don't SHOW her the problem. Instead YOU keep the book and you turn it into a story using her favorite movie characters. You draw the story on the whiteboard and lead her into the problem very slowly. She never even sees the book.

 

And no, going through high school DOESN'T make it easier, trust me. All it does is open a whole new set of insecurities and worries. Your main thing is to plod and not fail to work every day on the foundational things and do some standardized testing so you really know what's going on. With her anxiety, I would probably look for the Woodcock Johnson. There's no time element, and they tell the dc upfront that there's material for ages 2 through calculus. There's no ceiling but also no pressure. Runs about $75 in our area through a tutor. See if you can find it. The psych will appreciate those results too.

[PeterPan]

Btw, writing is a funny thing. People tend to think they need to use a certain program for LD kids. I guess in theory I could have done that with my dd. Up until this year (8th) she was EXTREMELY writing phobic, talked about how she'd NEVER write as much as I do or love it, haha. Now she writes every night (even after a long day of working on her current project!) and enters her writing in contests (and WINS or at least places, hehe). Go figure that. It's entirely possible that you're SUPPOSEDLY LD dc is going to turn out to be a professional writer. Think through that, about what harm you can do by plowing over their innate writing gift simply because the timetable isn't there yet. EF is what drives organization, and EF is developmental.

 

I'm out of time, but we can talk about this later. Main thing is, focus on getting her comfortable at outputting. If she's COMFORTABLE getting her thoughts out and she's becoming a proficient typist, that's good enough for right now. My dd hated summaries and WTM-style stuff, balked and balked at it. We're finally doing WWS1 this year for 8th, and she's doing beautiful work. I've never forced her to do more formal compositions like a ps would. What's curious is we started this particular project we're working on now that involves essentially a VERY long essay component, and her ability to synthesize and analyze turned out to be very, very strong. What is hard for her is NOT reading and analyzing. What's hard is organizing info and getting out. I don't think a bright dc who has the potential to be a very good writer is well-served by having their thoughts boiled down to trifles to fit a pre-determined outline. I don't think a CREATIVE dc who is VSL is ever going to be SATISFIED by the structure of a traditional, formulaic writing approach. And because they're not internally satisfied, they buck it. They have MORE, much more. You get these bright ones, and they have much more sophisticated writing and thoughts inside. Don't think small. Think about how you can harness her brightness and let it come out AND help her find the structure for her thoughts. That's all that matters. Hitting a paragraph-pumping curriculum in 4th or 5th doesn't matter.

 

Btw, does she like history? My dd is insane for it. There's a junior level National History Day category for your dd's age. Check it out. Might give her a meaningful project to merge her creativity and her budding enjoyment of writing. It's really a whole year thing, so then you wouldn't even need that LD writing program. :)

[Ravin]

Shehas had standardized testing last spring. This was before she started anxiety meds, and dealt with the test by randomly bubbling in the math portion, so the results were less than useful. The school testing reported she was working at grade level. She'll be tested again in April, hopefully with clearer results.

[Ravin]

I never said we were going to start neglecting math--just that we were taking a break from Fred and trying some other approaches. We did do-able and plodding, and she grew to hate it in 2nd grade about the time multiplication was introduced--her resistance to it ground any progress to a halt. So we started Fred, with worksheets to practice, and that reinforced what she'd already learned and then advanced her past that considerably. Now she's hit a "ceiling" again, so we're switching gears--not abandoning math study.

 

I spent the evening discussing it with DH, and he concurs with my observation of DD's inability to break a whole down into parts. We discussed what to do about math, and back-filling some gaps seems the thing to do. DD wants to re-read Fred, and I might do that with her, while finding more productive ways of helping her work on long division, multi-digit multiplication, place value, and her multiplication facts.

 

In the long run I want to stick with Fred, because it's approach of not putting too many problems on her plate at once. It does eventually catch up to standard scope and sequence, though it's out of step with it until 4th grade.

 

For writing, we're going to do typing instruction at home as well as continue working on her penmanship, spelling, and grammar as separate subjects (she's making progress in all of the above, as long as I don't try and pile it all together on her), along with copywork and dictation, and keep encouraging her independent composition.

 

We have an appointment for a med check on Monday. Hopefully an adjustment will help...

[Heathermomster]

I spent the evening discussing it with DH, and he concurs with my observation of DD's inability to break a whole down into parts.

 

For writing, we're going to do typing instruction at home as well as continue working on her penmanship, spelling, and grammar as separate subjects (she's making progress in all of the above, as long as I don't try and pile it all together on her), along with copywork and dictation, and keep encouraging her independent composition.

 

 

 

 

It's common for math and handwriting issues to go hand in hand.

 

Individuals with maths disability struggle with the ability to subitize and pull numbers apart. These students require explicit multisensory instruction. Look at books by Kathy Richardson, Ronit Bird, and David Sousa. Also, ETA Cuisenaire sells an excellent product with c-rod activities called Mathematics Made Meaningful. There is a little book with the c-rods kit by John Kuntz that methodically addresses specific math learning and identifies which topic card to use.

[Trilliums]

Btw, writing is a funny thing. People tend to think they need to use a certain program for LD kids. I guess in theory I could have done that with my dd. Up until this year (8th) she was EXTREMELY writing phobic, talked about how she'd NEVER write as much as I do or love it, haha. Now she writes every night (even after a long day of working on her current project!) and enters her writing in contests (and WINS or at least places, hehe). Go figure that. It's entirely possible that you're SUPPOSEDLY LD dc is going to turn out to be a professional writer. Think through that, about what harm you can do by plowing over their innate writing gift simply because the timetable isn't there yet. EF is what drives organization, and EF is developmental.

 

 

Yes! My kids were very late writers and I anguished a lot over finding the *right* curriculum for them. It was a matter of development for them as well. No program held the key. When they went through puberty, their abilities grew by leaps and bounds. They did not need incremental programs all throughout elementary or even middle school to become strong writers in high school.

 

 

Think about how you can harness her brightness and let it come out AND help her find the structure for her thoughts. That's all that matters. Hitting a paragraph-pumping curriculum in 4th or 5th doesn't matter.

 

 

 

Excellent advice. :)

[Ravin]

It's common for math and handwriting issues to go hand in hand.

 

Individuals with maths disability struggle with the ability to subitize and pull numbers apart. These students require explicit multisensory instruction. Look at books by Kathy Richardson, Ronit Bird, and David Sousa. Also, ETA Cuisenaire sells an excellent product with c-rod activities called Mathematics Made Meaningful. There is a little book with the c-rods kit by John Kuntz that methodically addresses specific math learning and identifies which topic card to use.

 

 

I picked up Mathematics Made Meaningful from Amazon today. We already have some cuisenaire rods (that DD has asked to do things with but wanted nothing to do with back in 1st grade when we got them). Thanks!