Feedback on Illustrated Guide to Home Biology?

[PeterPan]

Now that it's been out a year and people have had a chance to use it, any feedback on how the labs or turning out or what you're thinking? Successes? Failures? Loved/hated? :)

[Parrothead]

Is this the Thompsons' book? I have it and am planning on using it this fall. :lurk5:

[Julie of KY]

I haven't actually used it yet, but I've dug through it. I've looked at all the labs and made a supply list. It looks like a great book for learning microscopy.

I received a bunch of supplies in the mail this week, and I'm excited about getting started.

The book has a ton of information and things I've never learned. It takes you step by step how to do everything. It's the first resource that I've had that teaches me how to make my own slides and makes me think I can make slides of anything.We'll see.

 

I have a background that has used a microscope extensively, and I teach from his chemistry lab book so I'm familiar with the author so I have high hopes.

[PeterPan]

Julie, your comments are interesting! You know your reviews on HST helped me sort out what to order this year for our physical science, hehe, so I definitely value your input. We also seem to have similar kinds of kids I think (but that's just an aside). Anyways, does it bug you that he doesn't ask QUESTIONS? I was reading that the new AP Bio labs are moving toward questions rather than demonstrations, and of course that kind of structure (ask a question, think through how you could answer it, do the lab, analyze results) is a process we take for granted with our BJU Physical Science labs or the PH CIA labs. Are you going to hand the labs to your kids and have them do them, or are you going to drive it? Well, duh, surely they're seeing the steps. He HAS questions, but they're sort of buried and not driving the process educationally. So that's the thing nagging me.

 

I spent some time looking at it last night, and the approach and what I can turn it into varies with the chapter. For instance his units on protista, mushrooms, etc. fall more in the category of facilitating exploration, something I had hoped to accomplish during our "collection" weeks this summer. So that's awesome. Some of the units are more on the realm of guided slide study. And some are your more traditional labs. So I'm hoping today to have a chance to categorize those out and see where things fall. I'm trying to do 8 weeks of collections (collect things, make slides, study, compare to prepared slides where possible) and 18 weeks of other types of labs. At least that's my thinking at the moment. Some of those 18 can be multi-week labs, don't mind that. Actually I prefer it, because I think monitoring a plant or terrarium would be a GOOD thing for my kid at this stage and promote engagement. (If you're curious, I'm assigning the other 10 weeks to reading trade books on bio topics.)

 

I like exploration, and I like self-generated questions that make you go further. I was just concerned because Thompson's book doesn't even seem to be set up with trying to get them to ask questions. You as the instructor have to pull back and guide them into that yourself. (The questions are there but more as statements, so the instructor would have to present it that way and drive it.) It's pretty important to me, because with no engagement, no thought, there's going to be no retention on my dd's part.

 

BTW, there was this poster persinem who posted on the boards here *briefly* a couple years ago. She talked about doing longitudinal studies, ie. of milking things. So she set up microcosms with protista and whatnot and then tried to see how many biology textbook topics they could see and explore using this one thing. I think it's fascinating, because for me so much of biology instruction gets disconnected. We look at meiosis here and diffusion there and we never actually connect it to THINGS doing it. I want that wonderment. I want her never to see a pond or her back yard the same way again, kwim? I want her to walk by and HEAR AND FEEL those critters doing that and realize what's going on! To me that's wonderment. Why memorize the steps if you can see it? But dude I had the CRUMMIEST bio class EVER in high school. It didn't even occur to me till last night that there might be critters (protista?) with cells so large that you could actually see the meiosis and mitosis and stuff easily at home with a microscope. I thought you had to have a prepared slide or wizardry. It's sort of like a city slicker thinking meat comes from a styrofoam package, not a cow. ;)

 

So that's the other thing I need to figure out, what's hopefully in the Illustrated Guide ( I have the pdf), how to get that kind of connection. I may also morph this into two years or say 1 1/2, dumping some of the topics like anatomy to 10th. I just don't see how we're going to get it all done, mercy. Too many cool things to explore. Have you looked at his Forensics book? I guess we could do that 2nd semester of the following year. It's such an odd topic, but it does seem to put skills of chemistry, etc. into context. Or maybe it would be better following chem? Don't know. I'm just letting this all form. She's not a science person, but she can explore and engage just fine. I decided with her I would plan out activities that take 5-6 hours a week and start filling weeks. If it takes 2 years to get through everything we want to do, I'm cool with that. On the transcript I'm marking units, not credits, so particular coverage doesn't matter.

 

Hmm, well we'll wait and see if there is any more feedback! :)

[NCMom]

 

BTW, there was this poster persinem who posted on the boards here *briefly* a couple years ago. She talked about doing longitudinal studies, ie. of milking things. So she set up microcosms with protista and whatnot and then tried to see how many biology textbook topics they could see and explore using this one thing. I think it's fascinating, because for me so much of biology instruction gets disconnected. We look at meiosis here and diffusion there and we never actually connect it to THINGS doing it. I want that wonderment. I want her never to see a pond or her back yard the same way again, kwim? I want her to walk by and HEAR AND FEEL those critters doing that and realize what's going on! To me that's wonderment. Why memorize the steps if you can see it? But dude I had the CRUMMIEST bio class EVER in high school. It didn't even occur to me till last night that there might be critters (protista?) with cells so large that you could actually see the meiosis and mitosis and stuff easily at home with a microscope. I thought you had to have a prepared slide or wizardry. It's sort of like a city slicker thinking meat comes from a styrofoam package, not a cow. ;)

 

 

Link for the longitudinal studies post(s) ??? Pretty please! I can find a post where that poster mentions doing the studies but no in depth info.

 

Also, I have all three of the Illustrated Guide books and some time in the next 2 months intend to go through all of them and see what we can use/connect/observe/do since I ~hope~ to use these as the basis for the rest of our work in science. I have started the Chem book and I see what you mean and it definitely requires some thought...

 

Georgia

[PeterPan]

Georgia, here's one of the really good threads. http://forums.welltr...s-aaarggghhh/

 

To search for yourself, it's easiest to use a google search. Go to your google or browser bar and type in your terms plus site:welltrainedmind.com That will limit it to searching *just* the WTM stuff. I do that almost exclusively now, because the WTM search function now is insane and hard to get results with. So for this search I used "persinem longitudinal site:welltrainedmind.com" and it immediately returned the correct thread. Easy peasy. It's why I used that precise term, so people would be able to find her posts later. :)

[NCMom]

Georgia, here's one of the really good threads. http://forums.welltr...s-aaarggghhh/

 

To search for yourself, it's easiest to use a google search. Go to your google or browser bar and type in your terms plus site:welltrainedmind.com That will limit it to searching *just* the WTM stuff. I do that almost exclusively now, because the WTM search function now is insane and hard to get results with. So for this search I used "persinem longitudinal site:welltrainedmind.com" and it immediately returned the correct thread. Easy peasy. It's why I used that precise term, so people would be able to find her posts later. :)

Well, thank you but that's the one I found, lol. I need more! It's not completely impossible to find info on doing humanities in an out of the box manner, but it is not easy to find anyone doing science that way. And for some reason Biology is the hardest science for me to find ideas that seem like they would work for the kids in our group.

 

Nothing to do but keep on trucking, though...

 

thanks again,

Georgia

[PeterPan]

Well do you want my book lists? :)

 

Is this for your dd9th? You teach a group?

 

I'm not particularly interested in the textbook reading. My goal is to do a combo of collections, labs, and readings. Readings can go a lot of ways, depending on your bent. The stuff I've found to use with my dd is more tame (100 stories behind flower names,Stiff, a book about HeLa, etc.), but there is more a science fiction direction to take it (Terry Pratchett, blah blah). And as someone was pointing out to me, you can draw from history (Romanovs/hemophilia, etc.). I'm excited about the Best of Science & Nature Essay books. They are annuals and inexpensive on amazon ($5-10). My thought is to have her read 2-3 essays from there a week and rabbit trail one of them to make a presentation paper. So for instance you read an article on the ethics and economics of shrimp farming, then you rabbit trail and make a powerpoint on the life cycle of the shrimp that it explains. Doesn't take long to do that necessarily, but it brings together a lot of good skills and brings biology into the realm of the relevant, the debatable, something they want to be informed about.

[Julie of KY]

OhElizabeth, I always enjoy your comments and questions.

 

Does is bother me that he doesn't ask questions in the Illustrated Guide to Home Biology Experiments? Do you mean that he tells you what to do rather than asks a question and lets you "figure out" the answer? When the author was developing the book he surveyed a number of people about what they wanted in the book. I was one of the few that felt that asking questions was important to get kids thinking. Most just wanted the how to do the lab part.

 

I probably look at the book a little differently than most. I plan on starting to seriously work on the book later this spring/summer. For my household, the book will serve to teach ME a lot. I will probably summarize the info and discuss it with my kids. From there, I'd like to ask questions and persue rabbit trails of learning with my kids. I think this book will give me the skill set to be able to "explore" microscopy with my kids.

 

My two oldest boys are only 13 and 11. Neither is biologically inclined - one loves math, and the other physics. I'm sure my oldest will hit calculus before biology as he's my math boy. I will probably have them "formally" do biology in two years (together for 9th and 11th). Right now I'll probably have them read the textbook, Biology Matters (Singapore). I think that text does a good job at hitting the main points of biology without giving them way too much information they will never care about. I want to expose them to as much microscopy as possible. My best friend teaches lab dissections and they will do some with her. My kids can't escape anatomy and physiology as I"m a physician (though my loves are math and chemistry). I want to expose them to as much microscopy/biology but I know it will never be a love of my two older boys. My two younger kids love all things science and are loving my microscope and slides.

 

I've done lots of work with the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemisty. I teach this on Friday afternoons in the spring and fall in my garage, and I've taken about 8 kids all the way through that book and many others partway. I have favorite labs for doing and learning. I can talk intellegently about that book. I also have the Forensics book. Unless you have a specific interest in forensics, I wouldn't substitute this for the chemsitry labs. Many of the labs are more esoteric and I have found them harder to work through. I haven't sat down and worked through that entire book, but I might sometime later this summer.

[PeterPan]

Are your comments on the chem book already in another thread, or would you like to give them here? :) I'd definitely love to hear your experiences with the labs, and you could go straight down the list, right in the order of the toc. I'll write it all down to use in a year or two, hehe. I've already got that book, and yes it was my plan for chem. Your comments on the Forensics make sense. And it's not so much that we won't do dissections or anatomy, but that I might find this turns into two years of study or maybe a year and a half plus some earth science topics or something. I'm just going to let it work out. I'm using units, not credits, on the transcript, so I'm really not worried about it.

 

BTW, have you gone through it and bought your stuff yet? I've bought SO much stuff for the BJU/PH physical science this year, I'm not sure how much I need. I got this insanely nice microscope off ebay (national optical dc3-163). Happy's kits would make life easy, but I haven't yet looked through everything to know if I need everything in it. If I only need select things, I'm hoping HST has it all. They certainly did a stellar job packing my physical science stuff. Everything was exceptionally well packed, really blew my mind.

 

Do you have any opinion on prepared slides? Happy suggests in the Guide that you make your own slides and have purchased slides for comparison (and backup, lol). This definitely seems reasonable to me. I don't know if he includes any in his kit. HST had what looked like nice sets. Happy had mentioned in another thread the value-priced, chinese dog component slides from amscope on amazon. I just think that's so nasty and a violation of all principles. Ok, I'll shut up now. ;) I just really don't want to buy those. (But I don't mind if you do.) Any thoughts on where you'll buy yours? It surprised me Happy would even recommend them, considering how down he was on the scopes from the same company. The sets from HST were more expensive but offered more diversity if you want them available through all the units you typically cover in biology. People have said there's a move away from microscope work in biology classes, but I don't see how you can distance the discussion and the seeing. At least you can't with my dc.

 

Yes, what you're saying makes sense, that the guide becomes your reference tool as you guide them into explorations. I definitely think it can work that way.

 

I've found some interesting things the last week or two while researching. There's a site where AP bio teachers are showing their modifications (and more practical versions) of the new AP labs. http://apcentral.col...34458.html I thought this lady's idea was neat for Phylum Fridays. http://winwardsci.co.../ap_bio_notes You know though, don't laugh, but with the new cladistic method of classification (that I'm totally not up on), is that stuff with kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, species GONE? Do phyla even EXIST?? LOL I guess that sounds dingy, but that's a really basic thing I haven't figured out yet. Was the scoop that they made a couple new phyla to make space for some new types of creatures? I thought I read that. I'd hate to have her do such an assignment and realize all the lingo and terminology has changed. I have a Miller Levine text at the library I can pick up and a Campbell text on order, so hopefully I can learn a little something. The MIT Opencourseware Intro to Biology (not the full, just the Intro class) is quite understandable. My dd and I enjoyed listening to a lecture from it enough that I think we may schedule it in. The lecturer paced like frantically the entire time and hardly maintained eye contact. It really beats all issues with attention, when the lecturer is that entertaining. http://ocw.mit.edu/c...6-genetics-1/ And I'm not sure if I can figure out how to use it to good effect, but the anselm biology site had interesting links with detailed steps, slides, etc. for some of their labs. http://www.anselm.ed...sylllect09.html

 

Well I'm glad you're here sharing what you've done! It's very helpful! :)

[Julie of KY]

I went through the Home Biology book and made a list of supplies that I'll need for most of the labs (except the prepared slides). I might have left off a few things that are only needed for one lab, but I bought most of what I needed. (I bought it all from HST). I bought an elementary set of prepared slides and decided to hold off on buying any more prepared slides until I get started. My kids are loving the elementary slides - even my husband. I will probably buy many more prepared slides, but I was unsure of what I really wanted.

 

Very few of my comments on specific chemistry labs are posted on the boards. In a few weeks, I'll sit down and type out some comments. You can fire me off a private message/email and I'll send them to you.

[NCMom]

Well do you want my book lists? :)

 

Is this for your dd9th? You teach a group?

 

I'm not particularly interested in the textbook reading. My goal is to do a combo of collections, labs, and readings. Readings can go a lot of ways, depending on your bent. The stuff I've found to use with my dd is more tame (100 stories behind flower names,Stiff, a book about HeLa, etc.), but there is more a science fiction direction to take it (Terry Pratchett, blah blah). And as someone was pointing out to me, you can draw from history (Romanovs/hemophilia, etc.). I'm excited about the Best of Science & Nature Essay books. They are annuals and inexpensive on amazon ($5-10). My thought is to have her read 2-3 essays from there a week and rabbit trail one of them to make a presentation paper. So for instance you read an article on the ethics and economics of shrimp farming, then you rabbit trail and make a powerpoint on the life cycle of the shrimp that it explains. Doesn't take long to do that necessarily, but it brings together a lot of good skills and brings biology into the realm of the relevant, the debatable, something they want to be informed about.

 

I do have 3 students (plus 2 littles who will come along for the ride) to work with. I have two 9th graders who have done Apologia Bio and are doing Apologia Anatomy and the 11th grader (and another potential 11th grader) who has buckets of free time, is done with everything but 4 classes and even though she used college level texts for the most part for science, is NOT at all satisfied with her experience so far. None of them are. The younger two are artsy, the older is math/science oriented.

 

I would LOVE your booklists. This is what this class is wanting to do. I have buy in from the students, just need the creativity and ideas. You clearly have oodles of both!

 

Thanks and sorry if this is a rambling mess, it's a swim meet weekend!

Georgia

[PeterPan]

You know, with students who actually like science, you should write karenanne for booklists. Her dd reads stuff like by Ian Stewart who actually does make connections like that. That's way above my dd's head though. And no, I'm not so creative, lol. I'm just very MOTIVATED. She'll learn better this way, in context, and the psych told us to do it and not even blink about it, that she's going to be FINE in college. So yeah, just motivation. If I want a good year, I just have to research and pull it together and make it happen. Oh, and I sometimes forget to sleep. That helps too. :)

 

I can't seem to get to work the charlotte mason list that is commonly linked to here. I started there, looking the things up on amazon and rabbit trailing through their suggesteds to see what else would pop up.

 

http://winwardsci.co...ted_reading When I came to this link, THAT'S when I finally felt vindicated, like I was not nuts, since a lot of the books I got were on here. I haven't yet had a chance to continue through the list and look at the rest of them. She is very creative and thorough, as you say, and I found other inspiring ideas on her site too (Phyllum Fridays, blah blah). I think it's nice to get a lot of ideas and then let them sift and mull till you know what comes to the top for your student. Or at least that's what I do. Lots of good ideas out there, but you only need the ones that bring something good for your situation.

 

http://forums.welltr...-for-biology/ This thread looks good, and I *think* I had seen it before. I'm realizing though I should look at it again and make sure I didn't miss any goodies! :)

 

I'm just saying this list isn't terribly original to me; I built on the information people had posted before. I don't even have all the threads to cite people.

 

BTW, have you pursued math reading? I just got The Code Book by Simon Singh and The Calculus Diaries by Jennifer Ouellette. It's amazing how well-reading HUMANITIES people are in the sciences. You think people pigeon hole and only like certain things, but actually I can cite multiple history lovers who ACTIVELY READ AND LEARN SCIENCE (and math!) as adults, and this is how. This whole fascination with textbooks is obscene, because for some kids it's not a path forward to long-term engagement with the topics. These trade books, with their more mature writing and middle of the road content, really span that, and it's a way the adult history lovers I know like learning science.

 

Well anyways, here are some, again, not necessarily things you haven't seen before.

 

The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks --Skloot, about the HeLa cell line

Polio, an American Story--Oshinsky, won a Pulitzer

Botany of Desire--Pollan

The Violinist's Thumb--Kean

Best American Science and Nature Writing annuals--I got 2012 back to 2008. I've hatched this little scheme where we read 2-3 a week and pick one to rabbit trail and do a powerpoint on. Discuss of course.

The Language of Flowers--Diffenbaugh--Haven't read this yet. It's fiction. Just got it to throw in with the theme, no clue how much actual content it has. Looks like a real tear-jerker.

The Bird Watching Answer Book--Cornell Lab of Ornith.--Turns out to be kind of simple (non-technical), but it might be an interesting read.

The Nature of Life, Readings in Biology--This is a discussion guide. Thought the structure might be useful to us.

Stiff, the curious lives of cadavers--This is a hilarious, though she allows it to go off-color in places. I'm sort of on the line. I may give it to her with a chapter marked to skip or whatever. Fascinating stuff though. You'll never think of death the same.

The 39 Steps--For the life of me I can't remember if this had ANYTHING to do with biology or if I just found it, realized it was only $2.50, and bought it. But who doesn't need a little Hitchcock (read the book then watch the movie) to brighten their day? :)

Microbe Hunters--Not a hard read.

The Rose's Kiss--books by a botanist up in NY, seemed fascinating

Wily Violets & Underground Orchids

Natural Affairs: A Botanist Looks at the Attachments between Plants and People--I think this went with Botany of Desire. Got a little botany-heavy, lol. That's ok. You can see botany, and it's an easy life-long pursuit. (not expensive, all around, blah blah)

Scientific American's Amateur Biology--This book is COOL. I don't normally read the whole of a book, but this one ranked. If you want inspiration for that dc who completed AP bio and hasn't found a thing to do with it, well here you go. Find the chapter with the 10th grader who did research on limiters in plants. Notice how many of these people are hobbyists, retired people, people at home, doing actual, useful science, making contributions to the science community.

100 Flowers (Birds) and How they Got Their Names--She's a history person, what can I say? :)

Flower Confidential: the Good, the Bad, and the Beautiful--I remember nothing about this one, hasn't come yet.

Winter World: the Ingenuity of Animal Survival--Ok, is this the book by Bernhdt Heinrichs? If so, it's part of a series. He has some others (like his life story) that are even better. I just had to start somewhere and had a deal to throw this one in the package for cheap. Anything by B. Heinrichs is interesting. You can see samples on amazon. Biologist dude who wrote well and prolifically.

Cats are Not Peas--About genetics and cats, hard to go wrong. Has an index like a textbook, but very engaging. Hoping she likes it considering what I paid, lol.

History of Medicine--Tiner--Not a hard read, definitely the lightest in the bunch, but it might be interesting to her.

 

***

adding some more books as I come across them

***

Field Guide to Bacteria --Dyer--Seems like a dry read at first, but the woman clearly likes her bugs (bacteria). Lots of pictures, and it got my mind reeling in all kinds of directions I had never considered. So much better than opening a vial and examining under a microscope. If you do that, how does the kid have any CONNECTION that this is happening all around him?!?!

 

I'll update this section as I find more. I went through that pink AP list last night, and they were sort of a mix. I liked the idea of books about women, but the Brenda Maddox book was bordering on femi-nazi. It made you ANGRY rather than funneling the facts and energy a more productive way. I think the *topic* was worthwhile (the woman behind the Watson/Crick DNA story and how she didn't get credit because she was a woman Jew, or at least that's the contention), but not sure I want to use that particular book. Some of the others were light.

 

***

 

I haven't really started grouping those things to see how they fit into sensible units. I was hoping to have some overage so I'd have options if something doesn't click. There are many more rabbit trails this could go down obviously. Haven't even pursued the hemophilia/russians thing to get a book. Really just follow rabbit trails of the suggested books on amazon and see what calls to you. Some of these authors have more books. I got all that in one or two evenings, so I'm sure I could get more if I need to to flesh out certain topics. I have no sense that I'm covering the exact same info a text would cover, nor do I want to. I want her to engage with the stories (trade books), see the biology in action (labs), and discuss current issues (magazine articles in the essay books). That's good enough to me.

 

Have you looked at the new AP labs for your older student? They're much more inquiry driven. http://apcentral.col...ge/34458.html This link had tips on modifications and how teachers are implementing them. http://www.collegebo...24-12.pdf This link has the pdf of the new manual, so you can see if it adds anything to what you've already done or would combine well with Illustrated. I haven't even had a chance to compare them yet. (I decided to take a break last night and made plans for another course instead, lol.)

 

http://www.glencoe.c...pdf Here's a link to some "pre-AP" labs that seem like they might overlap with Illustrated. Has a more traditional format.

 

Well that's as far as I've gotten. I'm waiting for my books to come in (a few more to go!), and then I'll use the lovely pile method and start organizing. That's when I'll know if I need more in certain categories. Never can have too many books, lol. I'm HOPING there ends up some magic correlation where I have this plant exploration lab plus a plant book we read, that kind of thing. But we'll see.

 

BTW, I'm going to try to make some plans for photography. Maybe you have some do-ers who'd like that too? :)

 

Adding at end here to look for the Best American Science and Nature Writing books (annual series). I got several, and they're very fascinating. Reading level is moderate, and they have lots of potential for rabbit trailing, studying writing/rhetoric, whatever you want.

[shanvan]

Why, oh why, did I open this thread? I have to come back later when I'm feeling stronger and more able to handle all these ideas. I wish I had read all this a year go. <sigh>

[PeterPan]

Well Shannon, don't solve the past, only the future. :) That's what I'm trying to do at least. And as I get better at figuring out how to schedule for her for one thing, I'm trying to carry it over for another. I think I FINALLY, last night, got my breakthrough on how to do that for history. It's like the science is more obvious or comfortable to me, so I could see it and find principles to carry over. Maybe you have something with the reverse, where you can take your success with TOG (or hindsite) and carry that over to science? You're just taking what you learn about a way he can work well and carrying it over to another subject.

 

And just to be clear, there are people who are having bad experiences with the Illustrated Guide, even though they're not posting in this thread. It's not so much that the book is bad (because it's not) but that NO one method could POSSIBLY fit everyone. So I would never want someone to read this thread and think this is mainstream or something they ought to feel guilty about or aspire to or whatever. You also have to consider what I'm NOT doing. I'm NOT making her go through the entirety of a textbook. I think we may use one selectively or as reference, but just to use it as a spine, nope. It would be an unusual student who could go in so many directions (text and challenging labs and additional reading and periodicals and videos and...) all in one year. Something has to give. You pick what is most important for your student and what can get done. My epiphany for this year has been how well we work when I chunk things into 3-5 hour segments (or whatever is appropriate) and divide that work by weeks and put sticky flags on it with week numbers. Then buy all the supplies for those things and make it happen. Before I was too ethereal (my kid will love it and rabbit trail and we will be so engaged that we'll just on our own get xyz done). One headache, whatever, blows up good intentions. But my notebook with flags marked by weeks where I know the tasks are chunked by reasonable amounts of time, that I can get done. Totally pragmatic and non-romantic. And I don't sleep enough. If I did (or had more kids), I doubt I could get this done. :)

 

PS. If this year is going really nasty, maybe take the last 10 weeks, ditch the textbook, and just doing reading? Seriously, he could start with my list, follow the suggested rabbit trails on amazon to find things more to his interest, pull them from the library, and read 1-2 a week. Those would probably be interesting enough and bring enough moral considerations in that he would probably want to discuss. And have him read from one of those Science/Nature Essay annuals and do a little report or powerpoint of things he researches from them. So it wouldn't be hard to add this on at the end if there's something you've been aching to ditch. You could do the BJU labs and some reading and skip the text a while. He might even get his love of science back. He's such a reader, he might LOVE that Scientific American Amateur Biology book. It was way cool and left you wanting to go build things to do your own science... This is where the love is. :)

[shanvan]

Elizabeth,

 

The problem with this thread is I see quite a few books/ideas that I know would light a spark for Ds (and me too), but we are finally making progress with the text and with learning to interact with a text. I've also got some ideas for rabbit trails just from going through the tex and talking about it with Ds. But, I feel pressured by that pesky little idea of finishing the book and accruing credits. Lots of great ideas about how to explore and enjoy, but how to find time to fit them in? :banghead:

 

ETA: Sometimes just reading the text and talking about the material does spark an interest for Ds, so it isn't that using the text is bad, just that the resources listed look good. Choices have to be made. Like I said, I have to look it all over when I'm not feeling overwhelmed.

[PeterPan]

Oh Shannon, lol. Well can we say summer reading? I mean if it's going WELL, don't rock the boat! So what did you change about how you're using the text? And you're using the dark cover 3rd edition or the white cover 4th? (just curious) And you're doing the labs too? I have an antique, I'm guessing 2nd edition, text and lab book. The toc hasn't changed on the labs, so I'm assuming mainly the formatting has changed. I've been super impressed with the level of inquiry and thought process in the BJU labs for our physical science. I need to sit down and compare them to the Illustrated Guide and get this all to mesh out.

 

She *can* use the text. I'm just not sure in our case it's worth it. I'm going to be very judicious. You're right though that it's a wall you have to hit and scale. If it wasn't in biology, it would have been in something else. We're already using the BJU World History, so we've hit that "how do I sit down with a text and get something from it?" thing. I've been using some other supplemental books (things I think maybe TOG uses over 4 years?) similarly, chunking them and requiring her to go through and actually understand something that it wouldn't be her natural bent to read. In fact, that's been such a good process for us, last night I was picking out a few on the next level for next year. I think we might tackle that Story of Philosophy TOG recommends and Ryrie's Survey of Bible Doctrine. Should take a year for each of those, the way I figure.

 

I don't know what I'd do if I were dealing with a dc who expressed long-term interest in science. Yours has, and I suspect my younger (who is at this point EXTREMELY dominantly kinesthetic) will be too. I think I'd probably do what you are, hitting the wall with the textbook and figuring out how to climb it, maybe making some time to rabbit trail. There's just not time to do EVERYTHING. I'm just glad for your sake you've had a breakthrough and that the textbook side is doing better. That may give you some freedom to add in something this coming year. Maybe, if your total history time decreases with a change from TOG, maybe that gives you a little bit of flex to add in a half hour or hour of science reading a week, kwim?

[Parrothead]

Well Shannon, don't solve the past, only the future. :) That's what I'm trying to do at least. And as I get better at figuring out how to schedule for her for one thing, I'm trying to carry it over for another. I think I FINALLY, last night, got my breakthrough on how to do that for history. It's like the science is more obvious or comfortable to me, so I could see it and find principles to carry over. Maybe you have something with the reverse, where you can take your success with TOG (or hindsite) and carry that over to science? You're just taking what you learn about a way he can work well and carrying it over to another subject.

 

And just to be clear, there are people who are having bad experiences with the Illustrated Guide, even though they're not posting in this thread. It's not so much that the book is bad (because it's not) but that NO one method could POSSIBLY fit everyone. So I would never want someone to read this thread and think this is mainstream or something they ought to feel guilty about or aspire to or whatever. You also have to consider what I'm NOT doing. I'm NOT making her go through the entirety of a textbook. I think we may use one selectively or as reference, but just to use it as a spine, nope. It would be an unusual student who could go in so many directions (text and challenging labs and additional reading and periodicals and videos and...) all in one year. Something has to give. You pick what is most important for your student and what can get done. My epiphany for this year has been how well we work when I chunk things into 3-5 hour segments (or whatever is appropriate) and divide that work by weeks and put sticky flags on it with week numbers. Then buy all the supplies for those things and make it happen. Before I was too ethereal (my kid will love it and rabbit trail and we will be so engaged that we'll just on our own get xyz done). One headache, whatever, blows up good intentions. But my notebook with flags marked by weeks where I know the tasks are chunked by reasonable amounts of time, that I can get done. Totally pragmatic and non-romantic. And I don't sleep enough. If I did (or had more kids), I doubt I could get this done. :)

 

PS. If this year is going really nasty, maybe take the last 10 weeks, ditch the textbook, and just doing reading? Seriously, he could start with my list, follow the suggested rabbit trails on amazon to find things more to his interest, pull them from the library, and read 1-2 a week. Those would probably be interesting enough and bring enough moral considerations in that he would probably want to discuss. And have him read from one of those Science/Nature Essay annuals and do a little report or powerpoint of things he researches from them. So it wouldn't be hard to add this on at the end if there's something you've been aching to ditch. You could do the BJU labs and some reading and skip the text a while. He might even get his love of science back. He's such a reader, he might LOVE that Scientific American Amateur Biology book. It was way cool and left you wanting to go build things to do your own science... This is where the love is. :)

 

 

Thanks. I needed to read this today.

[shanvan]

I don't know what I'd do if I were dealing with a dc who expressed long-term interest in science. Yours has, and I suspect my younger (who is at this point EXTREMELY dominantly kinesthetic) will be too. I think I'd probably do what you are, hitting the wall with the textbook and figuring out how to climb it, maybe making some time to rabbit trail. There's just not time to do EVERYTHING. I'm just glad for your sake you've had a breakthrough and that the textbook side is doing better. That may give you some freedom to add in something this coming year. Maybe, if your total history time decreases with a change from TOG, maybe that gives you a little bit of flex to add in a half hour or hour of science reading a week, kwim?

 

That's a good thought. Science was the text that finally showed up all the issues that needed to be addressed with Ds's reading, b/c nothing really showed up before. He did all the TOG reading and had very few problems bringing it all together. I would read complaints on the boards where people would say that the answers to the questions weren't there and their kids really tried and they couldn't find them, and I couldn't understand it b/c Ds did not have those problems. Maybe he just has a strong history background and remembers all the little tidbits he reads everywhere b/c of his strong interest in the subject.

 

Biology is different though. I like the BJU text (it's the 3rd ed, yes, dark cover) but I do think concepts are not always explained in the easiest language. I've found myself feeling overloaded when I read it. I bought a cheap copy of Campbell's Exploring Life and I think the explanations and attempts to connect the learning to real life are sometimes better. I'm mean and will assign parts of it in addition to the BJU. Sometimes the difference is just an extra sentence that makes things more clear.

 

What we are doing different? I am in the process of turning over the reading to him. I used a lot of suggestions from the monster 'why are textbooks bad' thread. I backtracked to reading aloud with him. That was interesting b/c I found that often he had more questions that the text didn't answer. They were really intelligent questions that show he's thinking. He seems to need them answered to have a full picture and truly grasp the material. So, I modeled how to stop and find the answer to the question before moving on. We've been reading together and I've been checking his notes and reviewing each lesson. Now, I'm not reading the entire chapter with him. I'm giving him some sections that he is responsible for reading on his own and taking notes. Eventually, I'll transfer all of the responsibility to him.

 

There were quite a few things happening. Ds realized he wasn't organizing his notes well. He also had no idea how to pace his reading and was doing too much at once. He needed me to model reading a single concept through and then retelling the concept or process in my own words, sometimes having to look back at other parts of the text, until I knew that I understood it. He just was not used to having to put that much effort into reading, so he was doing his usual reading and expecting to remember it all and taking on too many pages at a time. Why I didn't realize this was happening sooner, I have no idea or justification for.

 

We have the DIVE disc and are doing selected labs from it, but I've backed off labs b/c I was trying to unravel what was happening with Ds's reading. Ds has been watching them. Now that I have that mostly sorted out, we'll be going back to actually doing the labs.

 

I don't know if Ds still has a long-term interest in science. He has said recently that he doesn't want to major in anything science related now. That could be b/c of my lack of teaching and throwing him into something he couldn't handle though, so we'll see. Science is work for him in a way that other subjects are not. Realistically, his strengths don't seem to be in the science areas, even though he has an interest and lively curiosity.

 

ETA: I keep wondering if students who have to work at it ever do end up going into the science majors/fields just b/c the interest is there?

[shanvan]

Elizabeth,

 

Has your Dd read Freckles by Gean Stratton Porter? Dd is reading it for her book club and we've turned it into a read aloud. It ties in very well with Biology and many of the books you have listed. I've scrapped Dd's science (Elemental Biology logic stage) and am using Freckles as a jumping off point to explore. Last week we did some reading about moths and butterflies, Dd wrote a report and did a drawing/labeling of a Luna moth. I'm thinking Ds might find some rabbit trails sparked by it, though he'll be digging deeper than Dd, obviously.

 

On a side note, Dd enjoyed the old Rod & Staff Science text we have lying around so much more than the assignments from Elemental Science. So there's a plus for texts. She thought the text was more interesting and it sparked her to do more reading on her own. She also liked the Scott Foresman text we picked up at the local Goodwill.

[PeterPan]

Shannon, I LOVE the changes you've made to the way you're handling the text!!! Those are great techniques, and I'm going to reread them and figure out what I can carry over to dd. Thanks for taking the time to write all that out. :)

 

I like the way you're mixing up the instruction, doing some with him and assigning some that he bridges and does on his own. That's a good way to teach it and gives me a good process of how we could start to turn that process over to her. You know some people in fact read all their texts aloud to themselves. I heard of someone who literally sat there and HIGHLIGHTED every single thing he read in the book, simply because it helped him focus on the task at hand.

 

And yes, BJU is intentionally working on some skills here that TOG skirts around.

 

Well I guess I'll go get those books now. I was hoping to avoid a trip today, but I probably won't be satisfied till I go. Just never know how much fun it will be to have a copy of Campbell or Miller-Levine in the house and be able to snuggle into the wee hours, picking labs and chapters and deciding on collections, lol.

 

BTW, have you ever thought of an evolution/apologetics unit? Could be something you do next year. I don't think my dd is ready for a ton, so I thought I'd just start with something really basic like Evolution Exposed for this coming year. My dh got very into apologetics in high school and college, so it's something that can interest them at some point.

 

Nope, haven't read Freckles. I'll have to see if we have it. I tried to get her into some Gene Stratton Porter once, and she bucked on it, not sure why. Seemed pretty reasonable. But then this is the girl who didn't like the HOBBIT the first time she read it, and now she loves it. Just never know, lol.

[PeterPan]

Just me and M/L hanging out here, comparing it to the BJU... I can see why you were so frustrated Shannon. :eek:

[shanvan]

Just me and M/L hanging out here, comparing it to the BJU... I can see why you were so frustrated Shannon. :eek:

 

You have no idea how much better that makes me feel. I've never looked at M/L though. So, you are finding the BJU to be a bit much at times? I'd be curious to know your thoughts.

[NCMom]

You know, with students who actually like science, you should write karenanne for booklists. Her dd reads stuff like by Ian Stewart who actually does make connections like that. That's way above my dd's head though. And no, I'm not so creative, lol. I'm just very MOTIVATED. She'll learn better this way, in context, and the psych told us to do it and not even blink about it, that she's going to be FINE in college. So yeah, just motivation. If I want a good year, I just have to research and pull it together and make it happen. Oh, and I sometimes forget to sleep. That helps too. :)

 

Well, your motivation seems pretty creative to me... :laugh:

 

I can't seem to get to work the charlotte mason list that is commonly linked to here. I started there, looking the things up on amazon and rabbit trailing through their suggesteds to see what else would pop up.

 

This one I actually know. This is the list that my oldest used, way back when, when I was younger and smarter, lol. It's MacBeth Durham's CM list http://charlottemason.tripod.com/

 

Thank you so much for the booklist and links! I'm sooo psyched. :001_tt1:

 

BTW, I'm going to try to make some plans for photography. Maybe you have some do-ers who'd like that too? :)

That would be just amazing!

 

 

Georgia (I really don't use that many exclamation points irl...)

[PeterPan]

Ok folks, I'm back and wanna talk turkey on these labs. I'm blowing my mind with how many variations there are on ways to demonstrate plant respiration and pigments (two separate labs). It seems like ALL the sources I'm looking at (labs from BJU, AP, that pre-AP source, IG, LabPaq, blah blah) all pretty much do the SAME THINGS if they do them. But they all have their own ways of going about it. Personally, I love the idea of using the Vernier sensors and ditching all this insanity with leaf discs and underwater set-ups and whatnot. But it's also kind of insane to keep plunking out for that. How many times in my life will I REALLY want to use those probes? Not many. :lol: So I know the labs are just trying to work around it. Just feeling frazzled here.

 

What is the likelihood that the IG (Illustrated Guide) labs WORK? Is he assuring us he did them? I'm not worried about the ones that are just slide studies (which it seems like is about 1/3 or 1/2 the book). It's just blowing my mind, the more I dig in, how many ways there are to go about this stuff and how, still, no one is asking MY questions. I don't WANT to plunk down a slide and show meiosis/mitosis. I want to see it in the wild or bust. (If I can, lol.) The stuff I'm finding just isn't NEARLY as romantic and engaging as I had hoped.

 

I'll go back to looking, but I'm getting swamped and hopeless. The only thing I'm loving at the moment is that Field Guide to Bacteria book, and that because she was willing to get down and dirty and tell you how to know what you were seeing in the wild. Too much disconnect from reality here, with our vernier probes and predone slides and preformulated answers.

[NCMom]

I'm pretty sure I'm not the right person to be answering this but just some thoughts. I was a bio/chem major and I am currently getting a teaching cert in bio. I have done lots and lots of science co-ops over the years and am SICK of the conventional carp, the babyish dumbed down labs, lol. Plus we are really moving to project based here so conventional text-based, all observational labs/science just isn't going to work anymore.

 

I did skim the Illustrated..Bio Guide last night and it looks pretty good as a supplement, but I think for what you want (though I'll admit I am not 100% clear on this part) it isn't the best starting point.

 

Ok folks, I'm back and wanna talk turkey on these labs. I'm blowing my mind with how many variations there are on ways to demonstrate plant respiration and pigments (two separate labs). It seems like ALL the sources I'm looking at (labs from BJU, AP, that pre-AP source, IG, LabPaq, blah blah) all pretty much do the SAME THINGS if they do them. But they all have their own ways of going about it. Personally, I love the idea of using the Vernier sensors and ditching all this insanity with leaf discs and underwater set-ups and whatnot. But it's also kind of insane to keep plunking out for that. How many times in my life will I REALLY want to use those probes? Not many. :lol: So I know the labs are just trying to work around it. Just feeling frazzled here.

 

In my very humble opinion, you may have to pick and choose. I know it's one of the AP labs, but personally for a non-AP bio student I would not use a lot of time or energy on measuring plant respiration unless I was also covering other things like setting up experiments, experiment variables, working with data, etc.

 

I assume that Vernier sensors are O₂ and/or CO₂ sensors? And you would only use them for 1 experiment? Doing the whole leaf disk thing is a giant pain also. And honestly this is not where I would spend my time or money, unless the student was VERY interested in respiration, lol. If you ARE doing it for AP then I would get the sensors and enjoy the use of technology. Learning to use instrumentation with comfort and ease is part of science instruction, too. Then sell those suckers on ebay...

 

What is the likelihood that the IG (Illustrated Guide) labs WORK? Is he assuring us he did them? I'm not worried about the ones that are just slide studies (which it seems like is about 1/3 or 1/2 the book).

I've done a version of probably 75% - 80% of the ones in his book and they work for the most part. What you see will not be as pretty as his pictures, and NOTHING will be as neat and tidy as it appears in the directions. Such is life and Life. :D I

 

It's just blowing my mind, the more I dig in, how many ways there are to go about this stuff and how, still, no one is asking MY questions. I don't WANT to plunk down a slide and show meiosis/mitosis. I want to see it in the wild or bust. (If I can, lol.) The stuff I'm finding just isn't NEARLY as romantic and engaging as I had hoped. I'll go back to looking, but I'm getting swamped and hopeless. The only thing I'm loving at the moment is that Field Guide to Bacteria book, and that because she was willing to get down and dirty and tell you how to know what you were seeing in the wild. Too much disconnect from reality here, with our vernier probes and predone slides and preformulated answers.

 

 

Meiosis and mitosis are hard ones. I vaguely remember that you can make your own slides (with the typical allium family members) but it requires at least one concentrated acid and other much more esoteric chemicals. And really mine have enjoyed looking at the prepared slides for this topic; they are some of the better of the prepared slides.

 

I so understand what you mean about the disconnect from reality, though. There IS a difference between plopping a pre-prepared slide on the microscope and actually seeing life doing the processes of LIVING right there with your own eyes. The reactions and engagement that I have seen when doing a microcosm lab vs. an observe-the-store-bought-slide lab is like night and day for most kids. But biology at the cellular level (and this is what a large portion of intro level bio is now) is not hugely romantic since it isn't exactly easy to observe, is a tad esoteric for most people, and is a lot o' rather involved chemistry, etc. I'm sure cell bio peeps find it all quite scintillating, though. :laugh: .

 

Part of the reality of doing true Biology, rather than Natural Science or Natural History is that you probably can't get away from some level of a.equipment use and b.using some prepared stuff. It is simply too difficult and too time consuming to do everything from scratch. I cannot over emphasize how much time even the most conventional bio labs take. The drawings alone...(especially if you have one who likes to draw each individual protist, each individual cell as lifelike as humanly possible, in 3d with color, on a tablet and then photoshop it. Yeah. :glare:)

 

Besides, stuff like a microscope, a great balance, a pH probe/pH strips can provide hours of entertainment. It does for me anyway, lol. Using some prepared stuff will give you more time for the cool time consuming stuff.

 

I think that maybe books like the Field Guide to Bacteria are where you need to go to find that see-it-in-the-wild depth. Possibly try some of the higher level bio courses for labs? Intro Biology texts ARE all remarkably similar. They are more about git-er-done (as they say around here), and less about experiencing Life. Just my very uninformed, very humble opinion though.

 

 

hth or at least doesn't make it worse :grouphug: ,

Georgia