3rd gr. Writing: What do you think they should know?

[Joshin]

I'm wondering, if you were to assemble your own writing program for an 8-year-old/third grader that just began to read fluently, what topics would you cover? I'm putting together curriculum lists for next year, and I am hitting a brick wall with writing for DS7. My older son is a natural writer and we didn't use a curriculum until 5th grade, which didn't hurt him at all (In fact, I don't think he really needs a curriculum now, but he enjoys using them so much). DS7 is the opposite. He's accelerated in math but is a reluctant writer and he's also stubborn. I visited our homeschool book store yesterday and looked over some writing programs, and I can already hear his groans and arguments. I can already tell the WTM recommendations for this level won't fly. It's not that the lessons look too hard, but the topics used to teach the lessons will just bore him to tears and the repetitiveness will frustrate him.

 

He was also reluctant reader but now he's doing well and enjoying it -- but he only learned after I dropped curriculum and just taught him the phonics rules for each letter/letter combination one at a time. He's a no fluff kind of kid. This year I have just been using a Think! Write! Draw! book and letting him more or less free write. He has capitalization, punctuation and basic sentence construction down pretty well, which is what the lower levels in most curricula seems to focus on anyway.

 

The writing program I put together for my older at this age is probably a bit advanced for where DS7 is going to be in a few months. We basically just did three units -- poetry, short stories and simple reports/research papers. I could just get a curriculum and make him do it, and he would (although the daily complaining would be loud). Writing just isn't a hill I find worth dying on with this boy, though. So, my plan is to put together our own personalized writing curriculum targeted at his science interests.

 

We will continue to use FLL for grammar because it's been fairly painless. We also use a separate spelling program which he actually enjoys, because to him spelling is like a puzzle. So this is just writing.

 

Thanks!

[Crimson Wife]

If he's bright but a reluctant writer, check out The Paragraph Book series from EPS. It's designed for remedial use in middle school, but I used it with my DD when she was in 2nd grade. One of the best parts about it is that it minimizes the physical act of writing. You don't need the TM as it's designed for classroom use.

 

I'm going to be trying Singapore's Sentences to Paragraphs books 3 & 4 with my DS after he finishes MCT's Sentence Island. He is still at the sentence-writing stage so he's not quite ready to begin TPB just yet.

[Farrar]

We do Bravewriter and I like how flexible it is and how it's basically all about routines. So my third graders do copywork or dictation once a week from a book we're currently reading aloud or a high quality book that they're reading independently (one is behind on spelling and does copywork mostly - he does some dictation with spelling and the other does mostly dictation). They do a written narration once a week about something we're studying or a book we're reading. They do a freewrite once a week - I give them a prompt, but they can choose to write about something else. And they do a writing project once a month - something that doesn't just get gone over (I go over narrations with them and we correct spelling and so forth together) but that is revised and edited and usually typed.

[KellyMama]

The incremental approach and short daily lessons in WWW have worked very well this year for my reluctant 3rd grade writer. ;) He can write a solid paragraph without complaints now - last year, a few sentences on any topic had the potential for tears.

[MinivanMom]

I have a 2nd grade boy who has basically been in that same place this year. He loves math and science, but has just started to really read fluently. It has been a struggle to get him to write more than a few sentences. What I have done is to focus on giving him as much control as possible. I made up a writing folder for him. On the left side is a checklist with suggestions of different types of writing he could do (sorted into a fiction & a nonfiction column). On the right side is a sheet that lists the steps of the writing process. When it is time to write, I let him choose whatever project he wants and work through it at his own pace. I will just casually ask him what he is planning to work on and then I will watch the clock to be sure that I'm not requiring him to work for more than 15-20 min. He loves to draw so I bought a pile of nice blank books to ensure he would have a beautiful end product. I encourage him, but mostly I stay out of the way and give him as much control over writing as possible. At times it has felt like he was making no progress whatsoever; he would take an entire week to write a first draft. At this point in the year, though, I can see that he has slowly made progress. He has written several science reports and several fiction stories (about science topics). They have all ended up as gorgeously illustrated books.

 

I know that there will have to be more instruction at some point, but right now I'm working on the "virtuous circle". The more he writes, the easier it is to write . . . the easier it is to write, the more he enjoys writing . . . the more he enjoys writing, the more he writes . . . etc. We do reserve one day a week to work on skills (spelling and very basic grammar instruction on a white-board). I do *gently* point out any grammar, spelling, or sentence construction problems when he is editing his work. I'm not concerned about teaching particular types of writing or units at this point. First, he needs to enjoy writing. I feel like we are slowly getting there. His writing is slowly improving, but his attitude toward writing has improved dramatically. It sounds counter-intuitive, but less instruction has helped tremendously for us.

[Joshin]

Minivan Mom, this sounds a lot like my son and your method is very similar to what I have done this year. He doesn't mind the process of writing very much anymore, though. It's the instruction method in all these curriculum that really frustrates him. The prompts they use to teach a lesson are too silly or boring. He feels no urge to "pretend he is a reporter" or similar. It's just not how he is wired. Too much fluff, and he shuts down. I need to get right to the meat of the lesson and tailor it to his interests or goals to get him engaged.

 

I am confident in my ability to teach writing without a curriculum (I'm a professional writer and I have also worked as an editor). I'm just wondering about any guidelines of what is age/ability appropriate for 8 years/3rd grade. DS12 wrote an 7,000 word novel for NaNoWriMo at that age, but I don't think DS7 will be at that stage so my view of what to expect and plan out is a bit skewed by my older son. The main think I am learning here is that my kids are such polar opposites in strengths and weaknesses that I can never reuse the same curriculum or plans for either of them!

[Farrar]

I am confident in my ability to teach writing without a curriculum (I'm a professional writer and I have also worked as an editor). I'm just wondering about any guidelines of what is age/ability appropriate for 8 years/3rd grade. DS12 wrote an 7,000 word novel for NaNoWriMo at that age, but I don't think DS7 will be at that stage so my view of what to expect and plan out is a bit skewed by my older son. The main think I am learning here is that my kids are such polar opposites in strengths and weaknesses that I can never reuse the same curriculum or plans for either of them!

 

I think opinions about this vary a good bit for this age. At one end, you have people following a sort of Charlotte Mason type approach where a student at that age would be narrating orally longish narrations and doing regular copywork or dictation where you would judge the handwriting, spelling, punctuation, etc, but would not be doing any original writing necessarily. On the other end, I have heard of many public schools where kids are expected to do several page-long research papers with citations at this age as well a "journal entries" of a page or more regularly - possibly even every day.

 

Personally, I would say a third grader absolutely needs to be able to write a sentence, including starting with a capital letter and ending with appropriate end punctuation mark. And if they can't already, that they be working toward writing a cohesive paragraph and toward using strong, varied vocabulary in their writing. Of course, many kids can do more and you want to meet them where they are and push them forward, but that would be the minimum.

[Joshin]

Thank you, Farrar! He's already writing strong, properly punctuated sentences, although still with a bit of creative spelling. He attempts paragraphs in his free writing, but they are disjointed at this point. I think we'll continue as we are for the remainder of this school year so he can continue to have fun with writing. Then, we'll tackle paragraphs, topic sentences and supporting sentences next year. If he gets it that well enough, maybe I'll progress to short reports and stories with him.

 

This child learns just so differently than any other I have encountered. It's as though he uses sheer will to get knowledge into his head, but if he doesn't have an interest nothing sticks. For example, copywork. He hated it with a passion. I finally gave up and told him if he could write neatly and form his letters and space words properly, and punctuate his sentences I'd let him stop. He spent a weekend writing the alphabet over and over, looking at the inside flap of his notebook to verify the letters were shaped correctly. Then on his own, he mastered the cursive letters on the inside of the notebook a few weeks later. I just had to show him how to link the letters. When I asked him why he did it, he answered because he saw those and just knew if he didn't I'd make him do more copywork learning them someday and so he thought he'd just learn them now. It's nice when he takes off on his own, but finding his motivation is my biggest issue with him on some subjects, otherwise the heels dig in and there is no budging him.

[LLMom]

I use Brave writer. We do copywork, some French dictation, and a lot of what Julie (from Bravewriter) calls "jot it down." Basically, mom writes what child tells. You can use that for retelling Bible stories, narrations from literature that we read aloud, or science and history topics. I also jot down fun memories or stories they want to tell but aren't able to write as much as they can tell.

[Farrar]

Thank you, Farrar! He's already writing strong, properly punctuated sentences, although still with a bit of creative spelling. He attempts paragraphs in his free writing, but they are disjointed at this point. I think we'll continue as we are for the remainder of this school year so he can continue to have fun with writing. Then, we'll tackle paragraphs, topic sentences and supporting sentences next year. If he gets it that well enough, maybe I'll progress to short reports and stories with him.

 

This child learns just so differently than any other I have encountered. It's as though he uses sheer will to get knowledge into his head, but if he doesn't have an interest nothing sticks. For example, copywork. He hated it with a passion. I finally gave up and told him if he could write neatly and form his letters and space words properly, and punctuate his sentences I'd let him stop. He spent a weekend writing the alphabet over and over, looking at the inside flap of his notebook to verify the letters were shaped correctly. Then on his own, he mastered the cursive letters on the inside of the notebook a few weeks later. I just had to show him how to link the letters. When I asked him why he did it, he answered because he saw those and just knew if he didn't I'd make him do more copywork learning them someday and so he thought he'd just learn them now. It's nice when he takes off on his own, but finding his motivation is my biggest issue with him on some subjects, otherwise the heels dig in and there is no budging him.

 

That sounds like a good plan. That's pretty much where my third graders are. They are working it out with spelling, but their sentences are okay. We're not quite to paragraphs. Their writing is getting more organized, but they have trouble understanding where to break and so forth.

 

I'll second looking at The Writer's Jungle if you haven't - you can get it from HSBC for a decent price. There is a good bit in there about copywork or dictation, which it sounds like was not working for you guys at all, but there's even more about other things with writing - especially freewriting, revising, and being on your child's side with writing. I think it's a good thing for anyone - but especially anyone who is trying to make their own program. She talks a lot about routines instead of schedules. She suggests some - you could take that kernel though and make your own routine - doing one different thing once a week each. So, for us, our routine has been to try and check off that once a week we did copywork or dictation, freewriting, written narration about science or history, poetry tea, and grammar practice. But I think it's a flexible enough thing that you could take that concept of one writing related task a day and build on it.

[FairProspects]

We are just starting paragraphs, now that sentences have been mastered. I think that is about right for a reluctant writer at this age.

[Walking-Iris]

I also have to chime in and say how much I love Bravewriter. I use it along with WWE.

 

Seems to me that your ds did not like copywork. Maybe letting him use his own selections. My ds does copywork once a week with the Arrow guides (a Bravewriter product) and dictation using WWE selections. He also keeps a book where he writes down his favorite lines from his reading. Maybe some element of control would help your ds.

 

Our writing week is exactly like Farrar's . Copywork and dictation, freewriting, written and oral narrations from read alouds and history (we do something different with science), poetry reading and other weekly read alouds (tea and cookies not always applicable) and grammar and spelling practice (other than some EditorInChief, our only grammar this year has been WWE, and I use SequentialSpelling). We also do the monthly writing activity in the Arrow and we've revised/edited a freewrite and a short story. I'm aiming for next year to include one writing project a month to be taken through the entire writing process.

 

OP--"pretend you're a reporter"???? You wouldn't happen to be using Writing Strands at the moment, would you? That was our writing program until I switched to WWE and started exploring Bravewriter mid-last year. I dropped Writing Strands. My ds loves to write, and I could see WS killing both of our love for writing.

 

If I were to really think about what I would want a 3rd grader doing by the end of the year I would include writing brief stories, reports, descriptions, poems, letters etc. Which can be accomplished with oral and written narrations and freewriting. Just writing for the pure enjoyment of it. As far as the typical paragraph is concerned.... topic sentence with supporting details etc. There's a bit of controversy about how detrimental to writing that formula can be. My ds has done it twice this year. It's a good idea for kids to be aware of that formula. It's a good exercise in organizing one's thoughts. But really, ask yourself how often your favorite authors write in such a formulaic way? Even non-fiction authors? It's a rule to be learned, and then broken.

 

More important than that (see how I spaced? It's time for a new paragraph because it's good on the eyes and I'm talking about something else now. That's all kids really need to know) is understanding the writing process. Drafting, revising, editing, organizing their thoughts. making their writing coherent and sequential.

 

The copywork/dictation/narration trinity will help, as will lots of time freewriting and writing outlines and written narrations. Creative writing helps as well. I think dismal writers are created when young kids are expected to write too much academic style writing. Also it helps to be aware that not every thing a child writes needs to be polished. Sometimes simply writing and getting the thoughts on the page without any expectation to write it correctly helps tremendously.

[Farrar]

Yes, I agree that the copywork and dictation perseverance has helped at our house. I was a huge doubter, but I decided to make it a non-negotiable and just push through the dislike. Et voila. Now they don't love it, but they tolerate it, and it has helped them.

 

On the other hand, when I look back on myself as a learner, it would not have helped me. So in that sense... well, I can see that it is not a magic bullet. There are so few of those in writing instruction.

[Joshin]

I used copywork with my eldest and it was great for him (although he inherited DH's handwriting, sigh). I am a huge proponent of copywork in general, but with DS7 it's just not a hill to die on. He hated it, I told him why it was useful to do, so he mastered those things independently just so he wouldn't have to do copywork.

 

We aren't using a writing program this year, but I did look through several (I can't remember them all, but one was Writing Strands) the other day and they all seemed to revolve around those sort of "pretend" prompts. DS12 has used Wordsmith Apprentice and Wordsmith, and they are that way, too. (Especially apprentice!)

 

I'll have to see if I can get a copy of Bravewriter to check out. Not in the budget to purchase things that we won't use, but it sounds intriguing!

[FairProspects]

If I were to really think about what I would want a 3rd grader doing by the end of the year I would include writing brief stories, reports, descriptions, poems, letters etc. Which can be accomplished with oral and written narrations and freewriting. Just writing for the pure enjoyment of it. As far as the typical paragraph is concerned.... topic sentence with supporting details etc. There's a bit of controversy about how detrimental to writing that formula can be. My ds has done it twice this year. It's a good idea for kids to be aware of that formula. It's a good exercise in organizing one's thoughts. But really, ask yourself how often your favorite authors write in such a formulaic way? Even non-fiction authors? It's a rule to be learned, and then broken.

 

The copywork/dictation/narration trinity will help, as will lots of time freewriting and writing outlines and written narrations. Creative writing helps as well. I think dismal writers are created when young kids are expected to write too much academic style writing. Also it helps to be aware that not every thing a child writes needs to be polished. Sometimes simply writing and getting the thoughts on the page without any expectation to write it correctly helps tremendously.

 

 

Well, for my dysgraphic, free-writing and insisting on copywork/dictation/narration would be equally as deadly, so I think it depends on your learner. Having more of a formula on the other hand is like a road map for him that helps him get to the destination. :)

[Esse Quam Videri]

Here is an interesting blog post about CM's take on writing instruction.

[MinivanMom]

I hate writing from those phony writing prompts, so it's not surprising that so many kids hate them too. If you have the experience and knowledge to teach writing on your own, then go ahead and do it. It sounds like your son has the kind of personality that will benefit from personally tailored instruction free of gimmicks and fluff.

 

As far as where a 3rd grade should be . . . there are going to be a variety of answers to that question. I think the best way to answer that question is to consult your state's curriculum standards (or the Common Core standards if your state is adopting them). This won't tell you where public school 3rd graders are actually at, but it will give you an idea of where 3rd grade teachers are striving to get them to. I live in an educated, affluent area and our best 3rd graders write reams of well-constructed stories and reports. Most have mastered spelling, mechanics, and paragraphs. The ambitious ones (attending the gifted magnets) are working on story construction, word-choice, interesting openings, poetic language, and essays. It sounds like your older ds fell into that category. You may need to adjust your expectations for your younger ds, but the standards for 3rd grade are pretty high in my neck of the woods. It's one reason I've been very glad to have ds7 at home. He's been able to learn and progress at his own pace. I really think that if he was in our local school, the only thing he would be learning is to hate writing.