First curriculum purchase. Need secular ideas.

[jamnkats]

My kids are 6, 8, 12, and 14. They have never been formally homeschooled as we are unschoolers. This was pretty easy to accomplish in the US, but a year ago we moved to Mexico and are now rather isolated both geographically (no phone service, internet by satellite only, closest town 15km away) and culturally. While on one hand, the kids recognize the difference between Aztec, Maya and Totonac architecture, my opportunities to schedule a robotics class or an art class, visit the symphony, etc. are rather limited. Last fall I ordered many of the non-religious Sonlight Core 1+2 and Core 5 books. I also have Singapore math and will be ordering Teaching Textbooks for the 12 and 14yos. So, history-wise and literature-wise, I am pretty comfortable with that which we have. The girls (6, 8 yos) have Spanish copywork and cursive books but they are still printing when writing.

 

So, for Math I have Singapore for the girls and Teaching Textbooks for the boys.

 

For literature I have all the Sonlight stuff.

 

For history, I am happy with the Sonlight stuff.

 

I am looking for Grammar/Composition for the boys. I've looked at Rod & Staff, CQLA, Easy Grammar, Growing with Grammar, Access Writing, Writer's Choice and Meaningful Composition. I LOVE Meaningful Composition but the sample pages don't show if it is as religious as the CQLA. I'm not really worried about grammar, per se, but more composition. I don't think the girls really need grammar yet. I just found Writer's Choice - any ideas if this is an engaging as Meaningful Comp? I can't find a sample yet. I have also looked at the Michael Clay Thompson (?) Grammar Island, Sentence Island, etc., but worry that since it comes from a website devoted to "gifted" children, my average kids will be overwhelmed.

 

The girls aren't reading yet but the 6yo regularly does Headsprout a few times a week. The 8yo isn't ready yet. My 12yo didn't start reading until he was 10 so it doesn't worry me yet. I do plan on making sure she doesn't have any letter dyslexia or anything though. I'm thinking of Explode the Code also but haven't decided.

 

For science we have lots of books and I''m not sure I want anything concrete for science. there is a guy in Alabama who has an online thing and I think we'll do Mythbusters and Krampf's videos.

 

The 14yo is interested in learning Latin so I'm looking for something NOT DRY and engaging for him (and me, tbh!). I speak Spanish only to them an hour a day (sometimes all day very irregularly) so they are slowly picking up Spanish (we're so isolated they only play with local kids once a week or so).

 

Art we do on the beach or the girls are CONSTANTLY drawing and Sonlight has the "How Artists See" series which I figure is good enough.

 

So, I'm looking for suggestions on Latin, honing the boys writing skills and other ideas if you have any areas you think I'm lacking in.

[SkateLeft]

Okay, first off, living in Mexico sounds so cool! :D

 

Personally, I'd avoid buying a whole grammar/composition program if you're just transitioning from unschooling. With history and literature set, you can probably do a lot of what you were already doing as far as composition is concerned. Maybe have them write out narrations of their reading, or responses to the things you discuss. My daughter's favorite composition resource has been a little $7 book called "The Lively Art of Writing." Last year, she picked and choose from the assignments in the book. This year, we'll work through it a little more systematically. She also likes "What If? Writing Exercises for Fiction Writers," which is another little book. If you're looking for full-on composition programs though, maybe something like Classical Writing's Older Beginner's books, which covers grammar and comp: http://www.classicalwriting.com/ Sorry I can't help more... I tend to do my own thing with comp and let Latin cover the grammar. :)

 

For Latin, you could take a look at Galore Park's Latin Prep. It's secular and certainly not dry. :) Actually, Galore Park offers English books as well that might work for you.

 

Another option might be Oxford Latin, which is rigorous, but pretty fun too. (I think, but I'm a Latin geek.)

[mktkcb]

OK, for composition you might check out Write Shop, IEW, classical writing, Apologia's Jump In (Apologia isn't secular, but the comp book isn't overtly religious), Writing Strands (the original WTM rec), Wordsmith/WS apprentice, Peace Hill Press's new writing series, Put That in Writing (older kids), or even Sonlight's writing (unless you've already tossed that option out).

 

For Latin: Maybe Latin for Children (It has both primary/secondary levels now), or Galore Park. These both seem to rank pretty well in the "not dry" catagory, and have levels that would be appropriate for a beginning 14yo.

 

I know you said you're not too worried about grammar, but a few others you might look at would be Analytical Grammar, Hake Grammar, or Easy Grammar. I agree with you that if your girls aren't really reading yet, grammar isn't necessary (although Peace Hill's First Language Lessons 1 is a very nice intro that doesn't require reading).

 

HTH,

Kayleen

[LanaTron]

I second Latin Prep. Lessons are short and sweet.

[nmoira]

 

I am looking for Grammar/Composition for the boys.

Sorry to throw more into the mix, but have you looked at Bravewriter?

[Chris in VA]

If you really want to do writing instruction with the olders, and your internet connection is somewhat reliable (don't have to "tune in" every day), check out Write@Home. They have really excellent classes on line where the kids are assigned a tutor who critiques their uploaded work. I have been very happy with the Essay workshop my ds18 took last year. I'd do their year-long program if I were you, following their sequence.

 

BTW, the Essay class used Lively Art of Writing, as a pp recommended. It's a really compact, easy to understand, easy to implement book.

 

Just curious--what will you use for your 8 to learn to read? If you need a rec, we've had good success with Phonics Pathways, plus some sight words and Montessori-type games.

[jamnkats]

Okay, first off, living in Mexico sounds so cool! :D

 

Personally, I'd avoid buying a whole grammar/composition program if you're just transitioning from unschooling. With history and literature set, you can probably do a lot of what you were already doing as far as composition is concerned. Maybe have them write out narrations of their reading, or responses to the things you discuss. My daughter's favorite composition resource has been a little $7 book called "The Lively Art of Writing." Last year, she picked and choose from the assignments in the book. This year, we'll work through it a little more systematically. She also likes "What If? Writing Exercises for Fiction Writers," which is another little book. If you're looking for full-on composition programs though, maybe something like Classical Writing's Older Beginner's books, which covers grammar and comp: http://www.classicalwriting.com/ Sorry I can't help more... I tend to do my own thing with comp and let Latin cover the grammar. :)

 

For Latin, you could take a look at Galore Park's Latin Prep. It's secular and certainly not dry. :) Actually, Galore Park offers English books as well that might work for you.

 

Another option might be Oxford Latin, which is rigorous, but pretty fun too. (I think, but I'm a Latin geek.)

 

It is pretty cool except during hurricane season. Ugh. :)

 

I looked at Classical Writing and the samples I saw just looked so, well, so much like the Sonlight IG's. I had a GREAT writing preparation (school) and have read that composition seems to be the great downfall with homeschooled kids. Since both boys are interested in college, we're trying to get more formal with their "education". Unfortunately, we're very removed here and get once chance a year (when we head to the US for a buying spree) to purchase materials. The Galore Park materials look quite good and they are having a sale right now. What is the difference between the Prep books and "so you really want to learn x..."?

 

Ok, I'm going to give Classical for Older another look. Thanks!

[jamnkats]

OK, for composition you might check out Write Shop, IEW, classical writing, Apologia's Jump In (Apologia isn't secular, but the comp book isn't overtly religious), Writing Strands (the original WTM rec), Wordsmith/WS apprentice, Peace Hill Press's new writing series, Put That in Writing (older kids), or even Sonlight's writing (unless you've already tossed that option out).

 

For Latin: Maybe Latin for Children (It has both primary/secondary levels now), or Galore Park. These both seem to rank pretty well in the "not dry" catagory, and have levels that would be appropriate for a beginning 14yo.

 

I know you said you're not too worried about grammar, but a few others you might look at would be Analytical Grammar, Hake Grammar, or Easy Grammar. I agree with you that if your girls aren't really reading yet, grammar isn't necessary (although Peace Hill's First Language Lessons 1 is a very nice intro that doesn't require reading).

 

HTH,

Kayleen

 

Wow, you gave me a LOT to check out there. THANK you! I was hoping the Latin study would take care of grammar? I LOATHED grammar in highschool (but hate poorly spoken English) but I'll look at your recommendations.

 

Thank you again!

[jamnkats]

I second Latin Prep. Lessons are short and sweet.

 

Thank you. What is the difference between Prep and "So you really want to learn..."? I visited the Galore Park website (they are having a sale until July 31) but am not finding that information. Thanks so much!

[jamnkats]

Sorry to throw more into the mix, but have you looked at Bravewriter?

 

I thought I had yesterday (I spent the ENTIRE day looking at Math, Grammar and Writing) but apparently I missed it. Thank you!

 

I am simply overwhelmed with all these choices! I certainly had no idea when my eldest was a 5yo... :) I am happy, however, to have nailed down Math and turned my math-hating 14yo into a Math-enduring 14yo. The other day he remarked, "I loathe to admit that I am finding the material quite intriguing."

 

I LOVE math, so this is quite joyous for me.

[jamnkats]

If you really want to do writing instruction with the olders, and your internet connection is somewhat reliable (don't have to "tune in" every day), check out Write@Home. They have really excellent classes on line where the kids are assigned a tutor who critiques their uploaded work. I have been very happy with the Essay workshop my ds18 took last year. I'd do their year-long program if I were you, following their sequence.

 

BTW, the Essay class used Lively Art of Writing, as a pp recommended. It's a really compact, easy to understand, easy to implement book.

 

Just curious--what will you use for your 8 to learn to read? If you need a rec, we've had good success with Phonics Pathways, plus some sight words and Montessori-type games.

 

Thank you, I'll add it to the list. :)

 

I've never used anything to teach the kids reading; they all have learned on their own. I'm sure the 8yo will do the same - the 6yo really enjoys Headsprout so that's why she is doing that. With the Sonlight literature, we do a LOT of reading, and she does a LOT of writing (very Waldorfish in timeline) and so far exhibits no dyslexia so I'm content letting her come to it in her own time. What sort of Montessori games would you recommend? I'm always up for a non-rigid recommendation. :)

[jamnkats]

THANK YOU, whomever recommended Brave Writer! This looks like something I can do with all 4 and would fit our lifestyle very well. I had investigated the subscription side of the project yesterday and rejected it, not realizing there was another side. So, again, thank you!

 

http://www.bravewriter.com

 

I am now looking at the Lively Art of Writing.

[Nikita]

Thank you. What is the difference between Prep and "So you really want to learn..."? I visited the Galore Park website (they are having a sale until July 31) but am not finding that information. Thanks so much!

 

The Prep series moves a bit more slowly. The sequence generally recommended here is Prep 1, 2, 3 followed by SYWTTL 3. My 13yo son worked through some of Prep 1 last year (started late in the year, stopped early, otherwise he should have finished it all) and loved it. It's thorough, the lessons teach exactly what is needed for the subsequent exercises so it can be quite self-directed, and I feel it provides a good combination of vocab, grammar, and translation.

 

I would also recommend the Bravewriter manual called Writers' Jungle, particularly because you said you have unschooled. It really falls into the "relaxed" homeschooling category, not the classical. I like it a lot, and am always inspired by Julie's approach.

 

Nikita

[jamnkats]

thank you so much! I'm really leaning towards Bravewriter myself and just posted a WTB in the purchasing forums. Thank you all so very much!

[keptwoman]

I was going to second Brave Writer, I bought it this year, the TM itself is a fabulous read and I got so much out of it and I really like the way it approaches writing.

[jamnkats]

Thanks again for all the advice. This is what I've decided on. Please keep in mind we're going from a radical unschooling philosphy to curriculum and I will not coerce the kids into "schoolwork" as that really goes against my parenting philosophy - we are really a very consentual household.

 

The boys (very recently turned 12 and just turned 14) are very taken with Teaching Textbooks and are already working on lessons 1-10 of Math 7. The 14yo is on lesson 6 and the 12yo on lesson 3. I know they are most likely "behind" in math, but are grasping the concepts very quickly and completely understanding. So I don't think I need to consider any other math (and I personally LOVE math and can't wait until we get to Trig!)

 

The girls (8 and 6) will occasionally do Math workbooks we have here and I have Singapore 1A and 1B coming. I currently have 2B, 3A and 3B, but these seem too hard so we're just doing other workbooks (they asked me to buy, the last time we were in the US) for now.

 

I am going to do the Bravewriter program with everyone - the boys read the entire website yesterday and are really looking forward to "tea Time". :) The girls do a lot of tracing with Spanish language cursive books (they asked for) and a LOT of drawing and tracing throughout the day. We'll all do copywork and dictation together, daily. Mom included.

 

I am giddy with anticipation over Artistic Pursuits. I am getting K-3 books 1 and 2 and 4-6 book 1. I think the boys will be excited to do both the K-3 and 4-6 and the girls will LOVE all the K-3 stuff. To be perfectly honest, I expect to be doing all the work alongside them. Unfortunately, I have to know exactly what we are going to be ready for all year as I get but one chance to purchase materials (when we go to the US this fall). Do you think that kids who draw all day and love drawing would go through more than one book a year (i.e. book 1, book 2)?

 

My 14yo wants to learn Latin and I'm still deciding between Galore Park and another that escapes me. We'll be doing Latin together.

 

I have just started the Science research, but am looking into TOPS (the 14yo wants to do experiments), Real Science, Science Explorer, Sonlight Science, Beautiful Feet, History of Science, Apologia (briefly looked and it looks really "schooly"), Exploration Education, Glencoe, Prentice Hall (looks really schooly), Galore Park. Ugh. The list is overwhelming. I'm leaning towards TOPS as it is all experiment-based and that is what he is wanting to do, but are concepts covered also?

 

Does this sound like too much for a family which has been radically unschooling since day 1?

[sagira]

You may try Beginnings Publishing's Spectrum Science. They are shorter, student-directed lessons. Some say not enough meat, but as unschoolers you know that's a not a problem as whatever you're interested in you want to keep researching and uncovering. Has a decent amount of experiments. Otherwise, you can always just order science kits based on what questions your teens are asking.

 

I greatly admire unschoolers. I have a friend who's unschooled and who unschools her children and she's one of the most interesting, smartest people I know :)

[jamnkats]

You may try Beginnings Publishing's Spectrum Science. They are shorter, student-directed lessons. Some say not enough meat, but as unschoolers you know that's a not a problem as whatever you're interested in you want to keep researching and uncovering. Has a decent amount of experiments. Otherwise, you can always just order science kits based on what questions your teens are asking.

 

I greatly admire unschoolers. I have a friend who's unschooled and who unschools her children and she's one of the most interesting, smartest people I know :)

 

That was one of the first ones I looked at and since Spectrum does not currently have samples, I relied on Rainbow. There is just too much religion for me. I don't mind a casual mention here or there, but the text is really based on religion and at one point, in order to study a subject, the text says, "let's play a game (and pretend this is real)". I'll have the boys look at it, but I think it is going to be way too religious for us.

 

THANKS though!

[sagira]

No problem! Thanks for the implicit review, as I was unaware the RS had religious components to it -- good to know. I'm sure you know of this Company as they cater to unschoolers, but here's a great page:

 

http://www.fun-books.com/story_of_science.htm

[latinteach]

The 14yo is interested in learning Latin so I'm looking for something NOT DRY and engaging for him (and me, tbh!).

 

Your son might really like Lingua Latina by Hans Oerberg. It's a direct method Latin program, which means that it is an immersion program. Even the grammar is taught in Latin. Jeanne Neumann's College Companion is a grammatical commentary which provides an excellent scope and sequence to accompany it. Some people like to work through at least part of a grammar-based text first, before tacking Lingua Latina. Latin Prep or Wheelock's Latin would be good secular choices. Wheelock's is very good value for money as it lists for only $21 and includes pretty much everything there is to know about grammar and syntax, plus introduces authentic Latin readings quickly. (You can get a teacher's key by contacting the publisher with proof of homeschooling status.)

 

Latin Prep and So You Really Want to Learn Latin are published by Galore Park. They are good grammar-based programs. My only criticism is that I disagree with their "golden rules" for translating from Latin, which advises that one should always look for the verb first, then find the subject, etc. At the very beginning, this works, but as you proceed to real Latin, this will not be helpful advice because your subject, object and verb may be just 3 words in a lengthy, complex sentence. (For some good advice on how to learn how to read Latin, see this article http://www.txclassics.org/ginny_articles15.htm and go here to download a printable reading card http://www.classics.uga.edu/courses/latn4770/miscellanea.htm -- note that to use this method, you really DO have to learn all your endings and grammar) Other than their advice to look for the verb first, I think they do a great job presenting the forms and syntax.

 

Latin Prep is based on the British CE syllabus (Common Entrance, which is an exam given at ages 11-13 for entry into independent sector schools) and works through the early stages of the GCSE, which is the General Certificate of Secondary Education -- the first level of state examinations. So You Really Want to Learn Latin apparently is supposed to take the student to the GCSE level, tests taken between ages 14-16, and prerequisite to A level exams, which are the exams required for university entrance.

[Spy Car]

Your son might really like Lingua Latina by Hans Oerberg. It's a direct method Latin program, which means that it is an immersion program. Even the grammar is taught in Latin. Jeanne Neumann's College Companion is a grammatical commentary which provides an excellent scope and sequence to accompany it.

 

Thank you for mentioning Jeanne Neumann's College Companion to Lingua Latina. I have really lenjoyed Lingua Latina, but I've hit snags at times and often wished for a "traditional" supplement to the inductive method. Now it is available (and I was unaware of it until now).

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

[SkateLeft]

I have just started the Science research, but am looking into TOPS (the 14yo wants to do experiments), Real Science, Science Explorer, Sonlight Science, Beautiful Feet, History of Science, Apologia (briefly looked and it looks really "schooly"), Exploration Education, Glencoe, Prentice Hall (looks really schooly), Galore Park. Ugh. The list is overwhelming.

 

Since you're looking at primarily secular materials, I think Apologia might be too religious, depending on which books you're looking at. I prefer my science to be secular also. We've successfully used the elementary books published by Apologia, but last year we tried using General Science and found it both very dry, and very pedantic. My daughter preferred it to some other textbooks we'd looked at, but when we sat down to plan for the coming school year, she adamantly refused to use any Apologia materials again. :D

 

Instead, we're going to use Oak Meadow's Physical Science. Have you looked at Oak Meadow's science? Sorry to throw yet another choice into the pot! :lol: It's secular, experiential and not terribly schooly while at the same time teaching the concepts. I think it might be a better fit for a radical unschooler than one of the more schooly options. There are samples on the OM website.

 

Oh, and btw... We don't do separate grammar (or vocabulary or spelling) apart from Latin, and that works well for us. :D

[jamnkats]

Thanks to everyone for the Latin advice, and Sailmom for (yet another :)) science choice.

 

I've been doing NOTHING but looking at curriculum for the past 3 days and I think I might be going just a little insane. :)

 

I had pretty much decided to go with Usborne books, "Science Experiments You Can Eat", "Secret Science" and TOPS, but now I'm off to check Oak Meadow. Well, after dinner. :)

[Nikita]

If you can stand another science option, then I suggest you look at Nebel's Elementary Education. I mention it because it is a bit like Bravewriter and very unschooling-friendly in that you can just dip into it wherever you like, but it is also very strong conceptually and describes a lot of hands-on activities. It is meant as an entire curriculum for gr 1-5, but more than half of it is devoted to science concepts and I think it takes the concepts into enough depth at least for middle school. I used it extensively about 3 years ago, then we got involved in a science coop doing FLL and that took over our science for a while. I just pulled it off the shelf yesterday and happily realized how easily it will dovetail with the TOPS units that I'm thinking about.

 

You can see sample pages on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Nebels-Elementary-Education-Creating-Tapestry/dp/1588208923/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217274495&sr=1-1)

 

One drawback is that it is really a teacher manual and not very kid-friendly - small print, only a few line drawings - it doesn't lend itself to browsing by the kids.

 

Nikita