Miss Tick Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 My ds and dd are using MEP level 2. DS has little trouble moving “at pace†but it doesn’t come as easily for dd. She can do the work, but it takes f.o.r.e.v.e.r She seems to have a lot of trouble focusing. I don’t think either of them is outside the normal 2nd grade range, but I’ve begun to wonder if dd would be better served by taking a step back, either repeating the material for this year (my eyes are already glazing) or by switching to something else altogether (MM, SM?) Obviously a big hesitation for me is that right now I work with them together in math (and everything else). Also, I worry about scope and sequence difficulties in switching to a different program. Of course I’m tempted to add more supplements but I’m not sure that spending more time on math will fix this. If we keep moving forward, will she have an “A-ha†moment and catch up? Even just a slow ramp-up? I’m looking for thoughts from others and any BTDT advice. For what it is worth, they have worked through Saxon K-3 (except the last 40 lessons) and over the summer I mixed in some Miquon. We also have been slowly working through SM CWP2. So they have seen the same material in other forms. She is much more fluent when I remember to draw or pull out manipulatives, maybe I just need to be better about supporting that aspect for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 You might just try using manipulatives more. My oldest actually uses MEP, but its a lot more frustrating for her than SM. The spiral nature of MEP causes her frustration because she wants to understand everything right then. MEP gives the information in nibbles and comes back to it a but later. Then she's really hard on herself because she didn't get all of it the second it was introduced. For her, it really is a curriculum thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 If we keep moving forward, will she have an “A-ha†moment and catch up? Even just a slow ramp-up? I’m looking for thoughts from others and any BTDT advice. She is much more fluent when I remember to draw or pull out manipulatives, maybe I just need to be better about supporting that aspect for her. I think you just answered a large part of your question. Be sure to support the way she learns. My oldest spent a long time struggling through Algebra topics with several different programs. Then, I had him do Algebra 2 twice with two different programs. He also did precalculus twice with two different texts- once with a tutor and once through dual enrollment. He had a hard time mastering the material and really needed to repeat the skills. His degree needs no more math, so thankfully he was done at that point. I had my middle ds spend a year reviewing arithmetic skills before moving forward with preAlg. It was silly, but really I didn't want him to catch up with his older brother. I don't think it hurt. Then, later he hit some horrendous teenage brain-fog and I had him repeat Algebra 2. Like his brother I had him do precalculus algebra with a tutor before taking it through dual enrollment. Then, he moved to trig. He is solidly grounded and very confident with math through this level. He is now a college freshman and thinks that the beginning discrete math course that he is having to take as a prerequisite for some of his computer science courses is a joke. With my little guy I often have him cover the same skills in three ways- through exploration, in a lesson, and through drill. If your dd needs to cover the material in other ways in order to achieve mastery, then it will be well worth the time to do so. HTH- Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thank you for your replies. I will try to be much more pro-active with manipulatives. I'm also glad to hear that it can be done! Persevere! :D Off to find some cardstock to make 100s blocks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'd try a different approach with her as well. Manipulatives if they work, but maybe a different program. I would be concerned that having her repeat the exact same program (even with manipulatives), or do it more slowly than her brother, would lead to negative feelings on her part -- "I'm too stupid to do math." And in reality, she just may need a different approach. My DD does very well with Saxon's incremental, repetitive approach, combined with some manipulatives, but mostly just crazy visual examples that I invent. If it involves food or money, it's more likely to make sense to her. My DS1, otoh, is thriving with Miquon and Singapore; he creates his own ways of doing problems. The wacky explanations I create for DD are going to be too wordy for him, but things like the c-rods work better for him than they did for her. They're three years apart, but having them on completely different programs keeps DD from looking over her shoulder and worrying about DS1 catching up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'd try a different approach with her as well. Manipulatives if they work, but maybe a different program. I would be concerned that having her repeat the exact same program (even with manipulatives), or do it more slowly than her brother, would lead to negative feelings on her part -- "I'm too stupid to do math." And in reality, she just may need a different approach. Yes, I'm concerned that this not become an issue, we already skirt it on some mornings. She gets the material just slowly, I don't see issues with the spiral approach (unlike a PP's dd). I'll do some looking at other possibilities, I guess I haven't come across a clue (yet) of what will work better for her... Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'd try a different approach with her as well. Manipulatives if they work, but maybe a different program. I would be concerned that having her repeat the exact same program (even with manipulatives), or do it more slowly than her brother, would lead to negative feelings on her part -- "I'm too stupid to do math." And in reality, she just may need a different approach. My DD does very well with Saxon's incremental, repetitive approach, combined with some manipulatives, but mostly just crazy visual examples that I invent. If it involves food or money, it's more likely to make sense to her. My DS1, otoh, is thriving with Miquon and Singapore; he creates his own ways of doing problems. The wacky explanations I create for DD are going to be too wordy for him, but things like the c-rods work better for him than they did for her. They're three years apart, but having them on completely different programs keeps DD from looking over her shoulder and worrying about DS1 catching up. Yes, I'm concerned that this not become an issue, we already skirt it on some mornings. She gets the material just slowly, I don't see issues with the spiral approach (unlike a PP's dd). I'll do some looking at other possibilities, I guess I haven't come across a clue (yet) of what will work better for her... Thanks. The reality is that her brother may indeed be better at math. So what? She may be better at art or swimming or baking. They just won't be at the same level at every thing they do. I tutored a girl who was older than my ds but at a lower level in math. If it was brought up, one or the other would always say that yes Doodle did a higher level math but she could swim like a fish whereas he sank like a rock. My brother is a better artist than I am. So what? I was involved in speech and debate. Who cares? Over 25 years after high school no one cares. And at even at the time I was proud of my brother's art. My oldest had a hard time with math but loved history. For my second math and science were a breeze, but he had no interest in history unless it was art history. That doesn't mean that my oldest was allowed to sulk and skip out on math or that my second was allowed to sulk and skip out on history. They learned to help each other and be proud of their sibling's strength. If your son is good at math, he should be able to shout it from the rooftops. He shouldn't feel any need to apologize or keep quiet about his strengths. Whatever your dd's strength, she should likewise feel excited and free to talk about it. They are plenty old enough to be taught to build each other up. Being the same age they can and should be each others best cheerleader. My brother and I are 13 months apart and I loved being his cheerleader. But certainly if MEP isn't working, look into something else. Didn't I read somewhere on here that BJUP used manipulatives, was colorful, presented concepts well, and provided good teacher support in their teacher guidebooks? How about McRuffy Color math? HTH- Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The reality is that her brother may indeed be better at math. So what? She may be better at art or swimming or baking. They just won't be at the same level at every thing they do. Of course they won't, but I think there's a difference between a child thinking, "My sibling is good at X, and I'm good at Y," and "I'm stupid." I think needing different levels for each of them is going to be easier to frame in a positive light if it's not staring one in the face every single day that a sibling is more advanced in the same curriculum, especially since they started in it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Of course they won't, but I think there's a difference between a child thinking, "My sibling is good at X, and I'm good at Y," and "I'm stupid." I think needing different levels for each of them is going to be easier to frame in a positive light if it's not staring one in the face every single day that a sibling is more advanced in the same curriculum, especially since they started in it together. :iagree: and I apologize if I made it sound otherwise. This is why I suggested BJUP or McRuffy. I sort of went off on a tangent, because it irritates me when a child is not allowed really enjoy what they are good at because the parents are concerned that it might make their siblings feel bad. Again, I totally agree that, if the ds needs to move faster than the dd is able, then maybe the dd would be better served by using a different math program. Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 We switched programs and held DS back a year in math this year. He is pretty much 4th grade level for everything else, and 3rd grade in math. He has always struggled with it. It takes him forever to learn concepts. We tried the Kumon center. We tried slowing math down for him. We tried games. We tried drilling. Nothing worked, and he was facing 4th grade math without knowing or understanding basic multiplication and division facts. I knew there was no point in him continuing without mastering the basics. Obviously I won't know how much this decision benefited him (or not) until closer to the end of the year, but so far I think we made the right decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syndeyjg Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 It really depends on how stuck the kids is. I had my 5th grader go back a whole grade level last year because she was not understanding the concepts even after slowing down and using manipulatives. It was our first year homeschooling and our first year using that curriculum. We spent about 2 months reviewing the 3rd grade books. Then we picks up the 4th grade level again, and things went a lot smoother. This year, working at grade level, she's had a few bumps in the road, but I'm not getting that blank stare I saw last year. So this time we will stay at grade level and keep working through it til she gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 The reality is that her brother may indeed be better at math. So what? She may be better at art or swimming or baking. They just won't be at the same level at every thing they do. -snip- HTH- Mandy I agree with this, and they will both acknowledge that while he is quicker at math, she is more comfortable writing. Dd *gets* the material, it just isn't so quick for her, I often have to walk her through it. We ran into this long ago with reading and it worked to repeat the previous 30 lessons. I think I'll try to add more manipulatives and also some basic-level math fact games. I'm thinking if those facts are rock-solid it can only help whatever is slowing her here. Then maybe we'll keep on for a few weeks and see where we are. It really depends on how stuck the kids is.I think my struggle is that he is relatively fast and she is relatively slow and I don't want to hold him back, but I don't want her to fall irretrievably behind, and the hand-wringing has been keeping me up. Just getting input from thoughtful, third-parties like yourselves is helpful. No one else is panicking, just looking rationally at where we are and what our options are. Whew. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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