Do you ever feel completely panicked about your discipline methods?

[urban_mom]

I have a 5 and 3 y/o. My 5 y/o dd is pretty tame, but she's definitely willful in her own way. My 3 y/o is just a disaster though. He has been a challenge since he learned to walk at 9 months old! :)

 

I have tried different things over the last year, but spanking is the primary discipline around here for DIRECT, WILLFUL disobedience. Not for everythign like fighting with big sister or whatever, but definitely for your typical screaming "no" and running away type of behavior. We've tried time outs but we have never had a single bit of "luck" with that. On the other hand, spanking hasn't really gotten us anywhere either. I've tried very hard to "disciple" them by talking to them about what Jesus would want us to do and by talking to my son about saying he was wrong and apologizing and I have talked to him about "protecting" his sister rather than hurting her, etc. Anyway, I just say that so you realize I'm not this crazy out-of-control spanker or anything. However, he is just one disobedient thing after another right now. I mean, I can be taking them to the pool and in the process of getting in the car to getting into the pool, we can have had about 10 big problems, (taking off his seat belt, hitting sister in the car, running away and not holding my hand on the way into the pool, throwing a fit about putting on suntan lotion, trying to run at the pool rather than walk, etc). I try to deal with each problem calmly and rationally but firmly and consistently, but after at least a year of disciplining this kid 150 times a day, I feel like I have not seen one speck of improvement!!! He is in his room right now because he was supposed to sit on a chair for about 3.5 minutes while I got an adjustment at the chiropractor and he ran around the room like a mad man instead! I'm so tired of how negative I have to be ALL THE TIME! I feel like all I do is discipline!! HELP!

[Joanne]

No, I have not panicked about my discipline choices once I developed and implimented my approach.

 

 

I mean, I can be taking them to the pool and in the process of getting in the car to getting into the pool, we can have had about 10 big problems, (taking off his seat belt, hitting sister in the car, running away and not holding my hand on the way into the pool, throwing a fit about putting on suntan lotion, trying to run at the pool rather than walk, etc). I try to deal with each problem calmly and rationally but firmly and consistently, but after at least a year of disciplining this kid 150 times a day, I feel like I have not seen one speck of improvement!!! He is in his room right now because he was supposed to sit on a chair for about 3.5 minutes while I got an adjustment at the chiropractor and he ran around the room like a mad man instead! I'm so tired of how negative I have to be ALL THE TIME! I feel like all I do is discipline!! HELP!

 

Honestly, and with great love and care, you sound terribly permissive. I would not "disciple" out of control young children, expect them to "be nice" to their sister, repeat myself or being loving, calm or rational.

 

I'd be swift and firm and resolute; the first time. This kid is out of second chances. It seems to me he's scraming for boundaries - and boundaries set well in advance of what would be your boundary for a more laid back, easy child.

 

This may help:

 

http://goybparenting.com/?p=173

 

Now, realize that parenting a child like this has "family effects" if you get firm; just as it has family effects if you stay wishy-washy. Therefore, know in advance that as you transition into being firm and confident, you'll give up some things as a family. It's temporary; but it often makes people give up the transition.

 

I'd give this kid ONE chance to make it to the pool. One. If he blows it at all, you don't go. Better yet, everyone BUT him goes. The same principle applies almost everywhere (g'ma's house, restaurants, play dates.....); If you don't follow the rules, it's a choice to leave.

 

For chore, school and other areas that are not things a child typically wants to to -everything "else" is put on hold until the chore or school work is complete.

 

Discuss less - much less.

 

Repeat the rule *while* getting up to enforce it:

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=54

[The Governess]

I totally know how you feel and I'm so sorry you're going through that! There are times when I feel like my disciplinary tactics are not making a shred of difference too.

 

Actually, one thing that has helped recently is our "bead jars." I got two pint-size canning jars and filled one with big beads from a craft store. Every time one of the girls does something nice or listens the first time, they get to take a bead out of one jar and move it to the other. After all the beads have been moved over we get to go pick out an inexpensive toy for each of them. They get SOOOOO excited when they get a bead. I am still using time outs and the occasional spank (which like you said I use for outright defiance only) but adding the positive reinforcement really has made a difference, I just have to continually remind them to think about their behavior. Like "remember that you get beads for listening to mommy the first time" or "girls who help mommy clean up get a bead," etc.

 

 

My dd1 sounds a lot like your 3 year old. She is so, so headstrong. She wants to do things her way all day long, and if she doesn't get her way we will never hear the end of it. She just turned four and it has gotten much better lately. I think that a lot of it is that she is smarter and more mature for her age than I give her credit for. She wants to do things herself, and usually my excuse is that she dawdles and so I help her and then a fight ensues. But being able to master things and be in control of herself is very important to her. I am learning how to allow her to have more control without it being unfair to the rest of the family and giving her more "grown up" tasks that she can succeed at (helping me cook, garden, etc.) seems to help too.

 

Maybe if he has more situations where he gets to be in control or make his own choices he will be more accepting of the times when he needs to do as you ask? I'm really not sure as I hardly feel I'm handling my own situation well! I hope you figure something out that gives you results, it is so frustrating when nothing works.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I try to deal with each problem calmly and rationally but firmly and consistently, but after at least a year of disciplining this kid 150 times a day, I feel like I have not seen one speck of improvement!!! He is in his room right now because he was supposed to sit on a chair for about 3.5 minutes while I got an adjustment at the chiropractor and he ran around the room like a mad man instead! I'm so tired of how negative I have to be ALL THE TIME! I feel like all I do is discipline!! HELP!

 

((hugs)) These are difficult ages. Kids' dopamine and norephinedrine systems (the ones which allow your kid to hear and follow instructions, change his course of action at will, prevent himself from doing something, calm himself down) mature so very s l o w l y. You can help the process along by developing pathways from his lower brain up into his higher brain. A great way to do this is to ask an intellectual question while a kid is running around like a lunatic. You can also do this by touching him gently or singing a song with him while he's being impulsive. When he's getting into mischief, distract him with something challenging to him which is acceptable to do. Basically, any time you see his behavior turning a little bit berserker, channel it into a useful function. This will create a pathway in his brain from the simpler, reactive areas into the more sophisticated places, and with five or six years of practice guided by you, taking that pathway will become a habit.

 

As for the incident at the chiropractor, I sympathize. I feel so betrayed when my kids can't let me have three minutes to attend to something I need to do in order to continue taking care of them well. I have to remind myself that low level stress hormones are released when a small child is bored (because of the way human beings are wired to seek stimulation), and combined with the inability to inhibit their motoric impulses . . . well, it's probably unrealistic, neurologically, to expect a three-year-old brain to tell a three-year-old body to sit still in a chair for three minutes. Can you bring along some sort of craft or small toy? Or ask your child to straighten up the magazines on the coffee table? You can teach your child to freeze his brain's stimulation seeking behavior in response to a physical threat (like a spanking), but you probably want to raise kids who will react to real life physical threats by tuning UP their awareness of and ability to interact with their environment, not turning it off.

[chiguirre]

I went through that age/stage with both boys at the same time. First and foremost, they do actually grow out of it, honestly!

 

The most successful thing I came up with was to make punishment a ritual. First, they had to recite the rule they broke (with prompting or verbal modelling if needed), then they got a slap on the wrist (not actually very painful, but I was aiming more for instilling shame at misbehavior), then they had to recite the rule again. Having to look at me and hold out their hand seemed to be more effective than bending them over.

 

I also had them recite their rules (I always aimed for 5, with the last being silly and they changed a bit over time). So, for example, I'd ask what are your rules and boys would answer something like:

 

No hitting

No kicking

No screaming

No throwing

No touching babies

 

This helped to get them thinking about how to behave and headed some stuff off before it got started. I saved spanking for major stuff (running in a parking lot, taking off your seatbelt, touching the stove...basically anything life threatening). If you suspect that your ds is acting out because of sensory overload, avoid time out as a consequence because it can be a positive reinforcer.

 

I'd also suggest not taking ds anywhere alone until you can count on safer behavior. If you must absolutely go out, I'd have him by the wrist and shoulder in a 2-handed grasp so he can't get away from you. Since your dd is 5, she can probably walk with you without needing a hand. This is a pain, but you will be able to control your ds much better and avoid danger.

[Jugglin'5]

No, I have not panicked about my discipline choices once I developed and implimented my approach.

 

 

 

 

Honestly, and with great love and care, you sound terribly permissive. I would not "disciple" out of control young children, expect them to "be nice" to their sister, repeat myself or being loving, calm or rational.

 

I'd be swift and firm and resolute; the first time. This kid is out of second chances. It seems to me he's scraming for boundaries - and boundaries set well in advance of what would be your boundary for a more laid back, easy child.

 

This may help:

 

http://goybparenting.com/?p=173

 

Now, realize that parenting a child like this has "family effects" if you get firm; just as it has family effects if you stay wishy-washy. Therefore, know in advance that as you transition into being firm and confident, you'll give up some things as a family. It's temporary; but it often makes people give up the transition.

 

I'd give this kid ONE chance to make it to the pool. One. If he blows it at all, you don't go. Better yet, everyone BUT him goes. The same principle applies almost everywhere (g'ma's house, restaurants, play dates.....); If you don't follow the rules, it's a choice to leave.

 

For chore, school and other areas that are not things a child typically wants to to -everything "else" is put on hold until the chore or school work is complete.

 

Discuss less - much less.

 

Repeat the rule *while* getting up to enforce it:

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=54

 

For once, ;) I agree with Joanne.:D While I might not use the same discipline methods, I agree that I would make this a huge priority, with no repeating and second chances. In general I have found that when the smaller things are cracked down on, you never get to the bigger things like hitting and tantrums. At least I haven't, and I have 5.

 

Also, I suspect that maybe you have trouble putting authority in your voice and really believing it yourself. You might try taping yourself in your interactions with your kids. This really helped one of my friends. Hope this helps.

[The Governess]

One other thing I would say is that we have a list of our 10 "big rules" on the fridge (no hitting, no pushing, no jumping on the furniture, etc.). The girls know these rules and get no warnings for these offenses. Straight to time out every time without discussion. I just point to the rule on the list that was broken and they go willingly to time out.

 

I think it's important for kids to know beforehand which things you won't tolerate. It may help to talk to him before you get in the car to go somewhere about exactly how you expect him to behave (let you buckle him, not throw things at his sister while you are in the car, no running around the pool, etc.). And tell him what the consequence is if he doesn't obey. Then stick to it. And pick your battles. Make it possible for him to succeed by choosing a few big rules he needs to follow and not expecting 100% perfect behavior. If he feels overwhelmed by the number of rules he has to follow he may just give up.

[Mx5]

I have a 5 and 3 y/o. My 5 y/o dd is pretty tame, but she's definitely willful in her own way. My 3 y/o is just a disaster though. He has been a challenge since he learned to walk at 9 months old! :)

 

I have tried different things over the last year, but spanking is the primary discipline around here for DIRECT, WILLFUL disobedience. Not for everythign like fighting with big sister or whatever, but definitely for your typical screaming "no" and running away type of behavior. We've tried time outs but we have never had a single bit of "luck" with that. On the other hand, spanking hasn't really gotten us anywhere either. I've tried very hard to "disciple" them by talking to them about what Jesus would want us to do and by talking to my son about saying he was wrong and apologizing and I have talked to him about "protecting" his sister rather than hurting her, etc. Anyway, I just say that so you realize I'm not this crazy out-of-control spanker or anything. However, he is just one disobedient thing after another right now. I mean, I can be taking them to the pool and in the process of getting in the car to getting into the pool, we can have had about 10 big problems, (taking off his seat belt, hitting sister in the car, running away and not holding my hand on the way into the pool, throwing a fit about putting on suntan lotion, trying to run at the pool rather than walk, etc). I try to deal with each problem calmly and rationally but firmly and consistently, but after at least a year of disciplining this kid 150 times a day, I feel like I have not seen one speck of improvement!!! He is in his room right now because he was supposed to sit on a chair for about 3.5 minutes while I got an adjustment at the chiropractor and he ran around the room like a mad man instead! I'm so tired of how negative I have to be ALL THE TIME! I feel like all I do is discipline!! HELP!

 

 

My friends all had girls for their first babies, and I had a boy. Their daughters, at 3yrs old, would sit quietly in church. My son would be acting like a chimp on Jolt cola. Their little girls would wear tiny white gloves and play quietly on a chair. My son would run on top of the chairs, very happily.

 

I found now, after having 2 more boys and 2 girls, that the genders are quite different, even though there's quite a continuum of extremes in both genders.

 

It can be confusing to be the mom, can't it?

 

What I can tell you is to take a deep breath, and realize that this bundle of energy son will most likely choose your nursing home. ;)

 

He is too young to understand the concepts you're expecting him to understand. He will nod at you when you talk about protecting and hot hurting sister, but that won't stop him from hitting her. You will have to prevent that, perhaps 100 times a day, until he's old enough to control his impulses better. Yes it's tiring but it does pass. Yes, it's difficult to figure out how to best help our sons make better choices. But I can tell you, now that my sons are 18, 13, and 9, that you won't be doing this forever. Your son will be a completely different person in just a year or two. He'll hit 13 and change a LOT physically, and you'll wonder if he remembers one thing you taught him about teeth brushing, or putting away laundry, or not jumping off the deck. Even at 18 I still have to remind my son about some things... I suspect I'll do it until he leaves home. But man, did those early years fly by. I wonder what happened to my little Legomaniac. He's taller than I am, holds 2 jobs, treats me with great affection and respect, and is a joy to have around.

 

You are not far behind me in life's path. Honestly, I felt like I was going crazy when the kids were younger. I put my sons on the time out chair many times. Put them in their rooms many times. Restricted TV, put them to bed early, pulled friends and toys. It all seems like a blur now but I did live through it. So will you!

 

All this blabbing to highly recommend a book I'm reading now that I wish I would have had available when my first son was little. It's James Dobson's Raising Boys. Your library will have it. There's a lot of info. in the first few chapters that made me realize my boys are boys. I especially like the stories people shared with Dobson about their own crazy antics as little boys. (Hint: there's one story about 2 blind boys who took their dad's motorcycle for a spin around town. YIKES)

 

You do not have to be negative all the time. You control how you talk to your kids. You can also control how you think about them. When you feel yourself snapping inside, remind yourself that you are the adult, and that your child is being childish. Being childish is something that they grow out of. You can always control how you speak to them, how you act toward them. Be calm, be in control of them, and remember how much you love them.

 

Also, on a very practical level, I really like "Parenting with Love & Logic" materials, as they recommend that we deal with our kids without all the emotion. Fabulous tips. Those resources, along with Dobson's book, may be available at your local library.