Need new LA - thoughts?

[SunnyDays]

Sigh. Well, MCT has been a bust this year. I had wavered on whether to go with it again this year, but... we're just not feeling it and it's not the direction I want to go. So, I'm going to sell it, and now we need something else.

 

I think I would like a simple worktext this year. I want to cover grammar with diagramming, usage, mechanics, plus the more "practical" side of writing... paragraphs, letters, book reports.

 

I'm looking at Abeka or BJU. I do like the look of BJU and I think it would work well for us. I'm familiar with Abeka, so no questions. With BJU, is it solid? Is it pretty much on grade level, or advanced or behind?? DS went through MCT Island so he is very familiar with parts of speech and sentence, but needs review plus diagramming. DS is a generally advanced 4th grader, so I'm looking at both 4th and 5th.

 

I also *considered* GWG and WWW, but I think I'd rather have a single program that covers more, KWIM??

 

Thoughts or recommendations here? Hoping to order something quickly and get switched over. Thanks!! :)

 

 

ETA: I think I've narrowed down to between Hake and BJU. Details and questions in post 13 if you have any thoughts!! :D

Edited September 9, 2012 by SunnyDays

[SunnyDays]

Have you considered Hake Grammar and Writing? I know the 4th grade was released for public school. I have not seen any news about the release for homeschoolers, though. You might get away with using 5th. Many people do.

 

 

http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/en/resources/result.htm?title=Sample

 

 

I did think about Hake, but I couldn't find grade 4 anywhere. I did look at grade 5, and it might work. Does it seem people generally like this better than Abeka or BJU? What's different about Hake from the other two, aside from it being secular??

 

Thanks!

[SunnyDays]

Okay, I'm comparing Hake and BJU. BJU certainly looks more colorful. :) Hake appears to be set up exactly like Saxon Math - gee, wonder why?? ;)

 

I'm leaning toward BJU, as I think DS will find it more appealing than Hake.

 

 

ETA: Then again... I wonder if I can go less formal this year... more of a living book approach to grammar??

 

We have Grammarland to read through, and I also ordered Word Snoop, which I read about in another thread. We have WWE and we're incorporating Bravewriter, plus we're keeping Caesar's English for vocab. Oh, and Daily Paragraph Editing. Maybe that's enough for this year??

Edited September 7, 2012 by SunnyDays

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Okay, I'm comparing Hake and BJU. BJU certainly looks more colorful. :) Hake appears to be set up exactly like Saxon Math - gee, wonder why?? ;)

 

I'm leaning toward BJU, as I think DS will find it more appealing than Hake.

 

 

ETA: Then again... I wonder if I can go less formal this year... more of a living book approach to grammar??

 

We have Grammarland to read through, and I also ordered Word Snoop, which I read about in another thread. We have WWE and we're incorporating Bravewriter, plus we're keeping Caesar's English for vocab. Oh, and Daily Paragraph Editing. Maybe that's enough for this year??

What grade are you looking at?

I used the old BJU grammar up to 6th and the new BJU to 3rd. It was not bad. We did most of the work orally during the teaching (following the teacher's manual) and only used the workbook for extra practice if dd needed it. The writing lessons were good (sometimes the subject of the writing needed to be changed some). They always had you and the student work on a writing piece together using a word web, outline, etc. or to show writing a different way (letter, directions, story). This I thought was good, let the child write but with hand holding before letting them do it on their own.

[JaneP]

We are using BJU english 5 and I really love the writing chapters. The instructions are very clear and detailed and it is easy to teach.

 

However, I am not enjoying the way the manual is set up to alternate between writing chapters and grammar chapters. I want my dd to do a little bit of grammar all throughout the year and I'm in the process of thinking how I can tweak the manual. Just something to consider if you are looking at BJU.....

[Angie in VA]

I did think about Hake, but I couldn't find grade 4 anywhere. I did look at grade 5, and it might work. Does it seem people generally like this better than Abeka or BJU? What's different about Hake from the other two, aside from it being secular??

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

This graphic shows 4th grade. This site says 4th grade is now available. Perhaps CBD, Exodus Books, etc. don't have it on their websites yet b/c it's so new.

 

order form linked here

 

photo of books removed 9-13-14

[besroma]

We really like Rod and Staff English. Have you considered it?

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

We are using BJU english 5 and I really love the writing chapters. The instructions are very clear and detailed and it is easy to teach.

 

However, I am not enjoying the way the manual is set up to alternate between writing chapters and grammar chapters. I want my dd to do a little bit of grammar all throughout the year and I'm in the process of thinking how I can tweak the manual. Just something to consider if you are looking at BJU.....

They have grammar review pages (on the teacher CD) to do during the writing chapters.

[JaneP]

They have grammar review pages (on the teacher CD) to do during the writing chapters.

 

Thanks!

[SunnyDays]

I know I am the one who suggested Hake. But of the 2 you have picked, I like BJU better. Hake is less money but BJU looks more age appropriate and fun. Let's face it, with a subject like Grammar and Writing, we can all use fun.

 

I would not go light. I would either use BJU or the rest of the things you have. That is a LOT of programs to juggle. The point of using something like BJU is it cuts down on the need for anything else. It should have/incoporate everything you need. I would keep one vocabulary program as that as nothing to do with grammmar, and use GrammarLand purely for a fun read aloud. I would sell the rest.

 

These are the things that are making me think BJU. Looking at what I wrote last night, it does seem very piecemealed. :) I think there are ways I can incorporate a couple of those for fun here and there, but it would be hard to have a complete program from that.

 

And yes, BJU is more visually appealing to DS... and I think that's important here!!

 

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughts... I am going to mull this over today.

[SunnyDays]

Okay... I've been thinking about this and would enjoy more feedback....

 

I'm weighing Hake and BJU. Here are my pros/cons/comparisons, and maybe someone can comment on them??

 

Both seem solid, and both contain that "practical" writing along with grammar.

 

I like that BJU is designed to be a worktext... but, although I know Hake Grammar is supposed to be a textbook, many people write in it and it works fine.

 

I don't really care whether a program is secular or Christian... however, I know some pieces of BJU have been said to be overly-saturated with Christian thought... is this the case with English??

 

Hake, I know, I designed to be done independently. BJU is more set up for classroom with teacher lessons. I plan to give my son direction, but have him do most lessons independently... will BJU still work for this, or will it bomb unless I'm doing major hands on lessons on the whiteboard??

 

BJU is certainly more visually appealing. That wouldn't matter to me as much, but my son might prefer it.

 

So... comments or thoughts on any of those angles?? It's just my impression not having seen them completely. Thanks!! :)

 

 

ETA: And, just for fun.... I'm not entirely sure we're done with MCT. It's true it hasn't clicked for us this year, but... gosh, I'm having trouble letting go of it so easily!! ;)

Edited September 9, 2012 by SunnyDays

[JaneP]

Hake, I know, I designed to be done independently. BJU is more set up for classroom with teacher lessons. I plan to give my son direction, but have him do most lessons independently... will BJU still work for this, or will it bomb unless I'm doing major hands on lessons on the whiteboard??

 

BJU is certainly more visually appealing. That wouldn't matter to me as much, but my son might prefer it.

 

 

Great questions :) I haven't been using BJU english long but I think my dd could probably do the grammar lessons on her own. I think you would probably have to be more involved in the writing lessons to get the full benefit. BJU is very well laid out and the formatting is excellent. It makes it very easy to use.

[Zebra]

I love BJU Writing and Grammar!

 

I wanted to use BJU a few years ago but had all these "issues" in my mind with it. I was concerned because BJU has such a negative reputation (their university). Also I was worried because I wanted to be all Charlotte Masony and not use a "schooly" text :lol:. AND, I am not exactly a mainstream Christian.

 

That being said, I wish I had just gone with BJU when I wanted to. The layout appealed to me when I looked at it, and it's been a perfect fit for us. We used it last year and are well into the 4th grade level this year.

 

I don't think any of the "issues" with BJU come up in their Writing and Grammar program. History, sometimes...Writing and Grammar, not that I have seen. There might be some sentences about Jesus or things like that. There are sometimes examples of essays that are about churchy things like trying to convince someone to come to missionary night at church. Your child doesn't have to write about that, it will just be the example essay they give. If you are comfortable with Christianity in general, you should be okay. I don't feel that they "preach" at you, or go into denominational details.

 

The best thing about BJU is the set-up. One chapter of grammar, one of writing. Switching back and forth is really wonderful for us. Also, the grammar lessons are SO straightforward. One page, front and back. The front is "guided" the back is independent. The writing chapters really break down writing into easily managed chunks for my dd. I don't wonder how to get my daughter to write an essay, it's all laid-out for me step by step.

 

I had a good friend who was flailing with LA and she was impressed with how happy I was with BJU last year, so she decided to switch. She called me last week gushing about it. She said she could not believe how straightforward the program is to implement. There is no guessing. She also told me she felt so optimistic that they were actually going to have a good year with LA this year.

 

BJU is obviously not for everyone. But it has been great for us.

[Zebra]

 

Hake, I know, I designed to be done independently. BJU is more set up for classroom with teacher lessons. I plan to give my son direction, but have him do most lessons independently... will BJU still work for this, or will it bomb unless I'm doing major hands on lessons on the whiteboard??

 

 

 

Last year I used the $5 TM from Christian Liberty Press. So, there was no lesson. During the grammar lessons I would just hand my dd the worksheet. She would read the info at the top and do the exercises, front and back.

 

This year I got a good deal on a TM. We have been doing the "lesson" from the TM every day, but it takes maybe 5 minutes to do. Then, dd does the front page of the worksheet, and if she gets it right she only has to do the "apply and write" sentence on the bottom of page 2. I actually think the lesson in the TM explains the concept pretty well and is not very difficult for me to "teach". It also keeps me on top of what she is learning, because I don't always know what a possessive dangling adverb is without a little refresher ;). The writing lessons are a little bit different. You will have more explaining to do during those lessons.

 

I also like that there is an extra practice CD rom with the TM. If after the lesson, page 1, and page 2 your child is still struggling with a grammar concept, there is yet another practice sheet full of exercises you can print out if you need it.

Edited September 9, 2012 by MeAmy

[SunnyDays]

Great, thanks for the additional thoughts. I'm still not sure where we'll go. I'm trying to work through some of Grammar Town before tossing it completely, LOL. But I think I'm leaning toward BJU if we switch... and even if we don't go that route this year, we probably will for next year. BJU just seems simpler somehow. And DS is a STEM focused kid... he is good at LA, but wants to just get it done, so I think a worktext will be a good bet for him. :)

 

One more question on BJU: Is it pretty much on grade level, average to slightly challenging for the grade? I looked through 4th and 5th and they look very similar. Do most people work at grade level or a year ahead if your student is bright or slightly advanced in LA?? Thanks!!

Edited September 9, 2012 by SunnyDays

[JaneP]

Great, thanks for the additional thoughts. I'm still not sure where we'll go. I'm trying to work through some of Grammar Town before tossing it completely, LOL. But I think I'm leaning toward BJU if we switch... and even if we don't go that route this year, we probably will for next year. BJU just seems simpler somehow. And DS is a STEM focused kid... he is good at LA, but wants to just get it done, so I think a worktext will be a good bet for him. :)

 

One more question on BJU: Is it pretty much on grade level, average to slightly challenging for the grade? I looked through 4th and 5th and they look very similar. Do most people work at grade level or a year ahead if your student is bright or slightly advanced in LA?? Thanks!!

 

:lurk5:

[SunnyDays]

So, interestingly enough... I was all set to buy BJU.

 

I showed my DS the online samples of both Hake 5 and BJU 4 today. He chose HAKE!! I told him I thought he'd like the color and illustrations of BJU. His response was that they were nice, but that the Hake pages were much simpler and less cluttered, with more white space. He's right... and now that I think about it, it shouldn't surprise me because that's been a big issue for him with other curricula!!

 

So... I think I'm going to close my eyes and hit the "order" button for Hake and give it a whirl!! :) Thanks to everyone for helping me think it through.

[Poke Salad Annie]

I can't really suggest one program above others. We use and enjoy a variety of things----KISS, Warriner's Second Course, Sheldon and Maxwell, and maybe some others.

 

This is JMHO, but I think the greatest grammar program is not a *program*, but instead using your own knowledge to teach the child the basics and on from there. If you don't have a good understanding of grammar, then it doesn't matter which program you choose.

 

The best tool you might own in your toolbox is an old edition of a Warriner's text. You can work through anything from there, and should not need to spend much on *programs*.

 

Make sure your child knows the parts of speech and how they work. Analyze all sorts of sentences, giving her some that stretch her brain a bit. You can pick sentences from any book---even the read-aloud you're using. To me, that's the only way that *grammar* makes any kind of sense. For more help, read anything 8FilltheHeart has written on the boards about teaching grammar or writing.

[Tarreymere]

Have you considered Hake Grammar and Writing? I know the 4th grade was released for public school. I have not seen any news about the release for homeschoolers, though. You might get away with using 5th. Many people do.

 

http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/en/resources/result.htm?title=Sample

 

I have Hake 4. They said they will sell the school version to homeschoolers if you want it before the homeschool version is published. I got mine last week and we love it.