Senior year planning with special factors (Xpost)

[Tiramisu]

I may wind up deleting this post so please don't quote me. :)

 

I'm putting this post on different boards to get various perspectives.

 

Dd will be a senior and is planning on studying music in college. The schools that have her specific major are generally not competitive and she already has met the admission requirements of the ones she's considering. Her SAT's are good enough to get some scholarships at those schools, but not great, so she'll practice more and re-take them.

 

What I'm wondering about is whether she should take pre-calc this year. She has taken up to algebra 2, which she finished sophomore year. I'm worried that she'll look like a weak student without it, having only two years of math in high school. Last year was just SAT math prep after she hit a wall with TT pre-calc. If we attempt it again this year, we'll try MUS. The thing is, she doesn't need pre-calc and she's not interested in it, and I would almost like her to spend the time on what is more relevant for her future.

 

My struggle is that I always have in my mind a "rigorous" academic plan. Though dd is bright, intellectually curious, reads a lot, and can express herself well, she has a lower processing speed and CAPD, verified through testing. This means I have to be careful not to overload her. When she's overloaded, there's more of a chance that communication will go awry, leaving her confused and frustrated.

 

On top of these issues, she feels physically unwell rather often. We have done medical testing but have never found a clear answer. Recently, she's had increased nausea and significant weight loss, so we've started looking into what is causing that. This means, on top of the normal stuff, we have no idea what the next school year will look like. So, is it worth throwing pre-calc into the mix?

 

FWIW, I have younger dc so I have their needs as well.

 

I'm open to any helpful feedback and suggestions.

 

Thanks for not quoting. :)

Edited July 25, 2012 by NJKelli

[regentrude]

For a music major, I see no reason to take precalculus.

The music majors I know were admitted based on auditions and received their scholarships for their artistic abilities, not for high SAT scores - so maybe investing the time in music instead might make more sense.

[MomatHWTK]

I might consider adding it, but treating it as an elective. So, we have these lessons because I want you (student) to go as far as you can, but if we only do them now and then or don't complete the course that's ok. Treat it as an audit or survey only class.

[FaithManor]

For a music major, I see no reason to take precalculus.

The music majors I know were admitted based on auditions and received their scholarships for their artistic abilities, not for high SAT scores - so maybe investing the time in music instead might make more sense.

 

 

I agree in theory with Regentrude. From the musical standpoint, taking college level music theory here senior year would be very, very wise instead of the pre-calc - do not to skip freshman theory in college - it's just a monster class...one of those that weeder courses in the music department and any prep she can manage would be excellent.

 

But and this is a major but, many uni's and LAC's are cracking down on the minimum requirements for entrance to college. Now some will look at it and say, "Oh, she completed Algebra 2, so even though she has only two credits of math in high school, she completed three levels of upper divisional math!" but the others, not paying even the slightest attention will look at it and say, "Only two years of math! We require three credits as a minimum" and ding her application. Not taking a math for the last two years of high school can look like the student isn't motivated.

 

The thing that has to be remembered is that except for the VERY competitive music LAC's and the Conservatories (Julliard, Eastman, Oberlin, Cincinnati School of Music, New England Conservatory), the applications go first to the regular admission's department and they have to pass muster there before they are passed on to the music department for consideration for auditions. I've known a few very, very talented musicians that thought they could get away with two math, two science (not the math based ones either...usually life science and physical science), one or at most two years foreign language, and filled their transcripts with drama, music, art, etc. all of which are wonderful in the long haul for a music major, but ended up at the low ranked uni down the road with the really crappy music department because their transcript wasn't competitive enough to get past the admins of the much better schools they wanted to attend. The only way around that is to have hung around campus on student days, attending their music camps, etc. and getting the "eye" of a music faculty person who will streamline that app through the process because they've already decided that student is someone they want to audition for the department.

 

The very, very best thing you can do is call each and every school she is interested in and find out what they want to see. If they want a third year of math, ask them if it needs to be pre-calc or if they would count a year of computer programming (Visual Basic and Java are algebra 1 based) or Stats and Analysis which is not mathematically intensive, but is an elective within the math department.

 

Also, don't put all your eggs in one basket. The music admission's at any school of decent reputation varies form year to year based on who they need to fill vacating spots. So, your child can be an amazing violinist and not get admitted while a far less proficient bassoon player gets in because they desperately need that chair filled. She needs to apply to several institutions.

 

Faith - degrees in piano performance, piano pedagogy, and music education

[Tiramisu]

I agree in theory with Regentrude. From the musical standpoint, taking college level music theory here senior year would be very, very wise instead of the pre-calc - do not to skip freshman theory in college - it's just a monster class...one of those that weeder courses in the music department and any prep she can manage would be excellent.

 

But and this is a major but, many uni's and LAC's are cracking down on the minimum requirements for entrance to college. Now some will look at it and say, "Oh, she completed Algebra 2, so even though she has only two credits of math in high school, she completed three levels of upper divisional math!" but the others, not paying even the slightest attention will look at it and say, "Only two years of math! We require three credits as a minimum" and ding her application. Not taking a math for the last two years of high school can look like the student isn't motivated.

 

The thing that has to be remembered is that except for the VERY competitive music LAC's and the Conservatories (Julliard, Eastman, Oberlin, Cincinnati School of Music, New England Conservatory), the applications go first to the regular admission's department and they have to pass muster there before they are passed on to the music department for consideration for auditions. I've known a few very, very talented musicians that thought they could get away with two math, two science (not the math based ones either...usually life science and physical science), one or at most two years foreign language, and filled their transcripts with drama, music, art, etc. all of which are wonderful in the long haul for a music major, but ended up at the low ranked uni down the road with the really crappy music department because their transcript wasn't competitive enough to get past the admins of the much better schools they wanted to attend. The only way around that is to have hung around campus on student days, attending their music camps, etc. and getting the "eye" of a music faculty person who will streamline that app through the process because they've already decided that student is someone they want to audition for the department.

 

The very, very best thing you can do is call each and every school she is interested in and find out what they want to see. If they want a third year of math, ask them if it needs to be pre-calc or if they would count a year of computer programming (Visual Basic and Java are algebra 1 based) or Stats and Analysis which is not mathematically intensive, but is an elective within the math department.

 

Also, don't put all your eggs in one basket. The music admission's at any school of decent reputation varies form year to year based on who they need to fill vacating spots. So, your child can be an amazing violinist and not get admitted while a far less proficient bassoon player gets in because they desperately need that chair filled. She needs to apply to several institutions.

 

Faith - degrees in piano performance, piano pedagogy, and music education

 

Thanks for all these helpful comments.

 

Right now we're planning music history with Discovering Music and introductory music theory with Fundamentals for the Aspiring Musician, which was recommended by the creator of Discovering Music. She also said that's the class where many students run into trouble.:001_smile:

 

Now I'm on the look out for a hs-friendly stats program. :auto:

[Corraleno]

Could you do your transcript by subject, rather than by year, and list Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2? That sequence (Alg 1 in 9th) is still quite common, and many public schools give credit for Alg 1 even if it was completed in 8th. That would give her 3 years of math on the transcript.

 

Jackie

[Susan C.]

Here is what we did for dd18, just graduated and going to college soon, English major, art minor. I got approval from the college to use Lial's Intermediate Algebra for senior year. I called it Algebra 3 on her transcript with everyone's blessing. I do know Algebra 3 is traditionally college algebra, but intermediate is very close. It was the best math year ever and dd tested very well on the college's math placement test. A third pass at algebra really sealed the concepts for dd. I did trudge through precalc. with my older, and concepts were remembered enough for ds to get As, but he didn't retain much. That is when I decided no more precalc. in high school. Both dc are liberal arts types, not math/science types.

[kiana]

I would do college algebra instead. This does block you from using MUS, but it's a reasonable credit and would prepare her for placement tests. She'll likely need a math credit at university anyway, and if she hasn't done math in a few years this'll be very difficult for her.

 

She could also do statistics, although this option won't review algebra as much.

 

Another slightly out-of-the-box option -- if dual enrollment is an option and she passes the placement test, she could take a math for liberal arts or statistics class one semester and hopefully transfer the credit in to not take math at college at all.

[Tiramisu]

Could you do your transcript by subject, rather than by year, and list Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2? That sequence (Alg 1 in 9th) is still quite common, and many public schools give credit for Alg 1 even if it was completed in 8th. That would give her 3 years of math on the transcript.

 

Jackie

 

I have requested that the umbrella school I use note algebra 1 on her high school transcript, specifying that it was done in 8th grade, so hopefully it will be on there.

[Tiramisu]

Here is what we did for dd18, just graduated and going to college soon, English major, art minor. I got approval from the college to use Lial's Intermediate Algebra for senior year. I called it Algebra 3 on her transcript with everyone's blessing. I do know Algebra 3 is traditionally college algebra, but intermediate is very close. It was the best math year ever and dd tested very well on the college's math placement test. A third pass at algebra really sealed the concepts for dd. I did trudge through precalc. with my older, and concepts were remembered enough for ds to get As, but he didn't retain much. That is when I decided no more precalc. in high school. Both dc are liberal arts types, not math/science types.

 

Actually, I have Lial's Intermediate Algebra on my shelf but, unfortunately, I don't think I could get away with algebra 3 on my transcript because I use an umbrella school and I doubt they would allow it. I love the idea, but I think if we did it, it couldn't be for credit.

[Tiramisu]

I would do college algebra instead. This does block you from using MUS, but it's a reasonable credit and would prepare her for placement tests. She'll likely need a math credit at university anyway, and if she hasn't done math in a few years this'll be very difficult for her.

 

She could also do statistics, although this option won't review algebra as much.

 

Another slightly out-of-the-box option -- if dual enrollment is an option and she passes the placement test, she could take a math for liberal arts or statistics class one semester and hopefully transfer the credit in to not take math at college at all.

 

I don't think I have an option for college algebra outside of enrolling her in cc, which would be very hard to manage with her music schedule. Unless there were an online option... I know at least one of the schools she is considering will not allow dual credit to fufill their basic requirement so I wouldn't want to shift too much around to make this work unless it would really help her later.

[Susan C.]

Actually, I have Lial's Intermediate Algebra on my shelf but, unfortunately, I don't think I could get away with algebra 3 on my transcript because I use an umbrella school and I doubt they would allow it. I love the idea, but I think if we did it, it couldn't be for credit.

 

I compared Lial's Intermediate Algebra with the college algebra book at dd's college, they are very close in content.