TOG vs. doing SOTW alone?

[I.Dup.]

Feel free to direct me to a thread that talks about this, if there is one already. I'm sure there is as I know there is a lot of TOG agonizing before buying it.

 

I have run across great plans that help make SOTW more open and go than it already is, so thank you to those of you who made them up and shared them!!

 

I am attempting to plan our history next year and really want a history cycle so of course I love SOTW and the idea of TOG. I have lots of kids and my oldest is going into 5th next year, so this is a perfect time to re-start the history cycle. I really want to make it more streamlined and organized so we can re-use it through the years. That, and the discussion aspect of TOG, is what really appeals to me about TOG.

 

Are those enough to pay all the extra money for TOG over doing SOTW alone? Can those of you who use TOG tell me if it really is worth it over using SOTW alone?

[julzar]

I have used TOG for 3 years and also used SOTW occasionally as it lined up with TOG(it is on the alternate page of the reading assignment chart in TOG). I feel TOG is worth it in the upper years for the discussion aspect especially. Nornmally, discussion outlines start in dialectic around 6th grade, but in Y1 there are questions to discuss regarding Bible topics for Upper Grammar as well. So, 5th grade may be a great time to get your feet wet on discussion if you will be using Y1. For me, it has been worth having my littles tag along in Lower and Upper Grammar Tapestry in order to gain the discussions for older ones and keep everyone on the same topic. We do LOVE Tapestry!

[Tracy]

I have lots of kids and my oldest is going into 5th next year, so this is a perfect time to re-start the history cycle. I really want to make it more streamlined and organized so we can re-use it through the years. That, and the discussion aspect of TOG, is what really appeals to me about TOG.

 

Are those enough to pay all the extra money for TOG over doing SOTW alone? Can those of you who use TOG tell me if it really is worth it over using SOTW alone?

 

For me, yes, this is worth it. I was attracted to TOG, because it would take me all the way through high school. But my oldest dd7 has been hugely interested in history since she was 3yo. (At that time, after hearing the Schoolhouse Rock song , "No More Kings," she told everyone for a year that she was going to rid the world of kings and queens when she grew up.) I think I might feel differently about it if I didn't have a child that was pulling me along.

 

I just bought our 3rd year of TOG, and next year will be the last year that I have history curriculum expenses. (There will be some negligible book expenses, but we mostly use the library.) And every time you add a child, it is that much more worth the cost of the program.

 

The other reason that I knew I wanted TOG was its use of the Socratric method. Having been taught quite successfully with this method, it is one I always try to use with my kids. And if I can find a program that helps me with that, then it is at the top of my list. Now, TOG doesn't use the Socratic method with the G levels, but using the program now and not fumbling with it at the higher levels is also a reason for me using now.

[I.Dup.]

Thank you both! I have been researching TOG like mad for quite awhile, but I never thought to ask what the particular advantages were over SOTW since they seem so similar.

 

Thanks again!

[dawno_momof3]

We have 3 children - dd 6th grade - Dialectic level; ds 4th grade - Upper Grammar level; ds 1st grade - Lower Grammar Level. We have been using TOG for 6 years and we love it. I have also used SOTW as it lines up with TOG because I happen to have a copy of it, but TOG is so much richer. Here is an off the top of my head list of things that I enjoy about TOG.

 

- The literature selections connect to what they are learning in History

- They get a solidly christian worldview

- Guided discussions! I am no good at doing this on my own so I love that they have the questions and ideas for discussion all layed out for me.

- You can easily choose how much or how little you do (on busy weeks we just do the core history)

- I don't have to search for hands on projects they have done the searchig for me

- We use the compter version now and I love how searchable it is and that I can easily print out the questions and worksheets.

- The majority of the resources are available fromt he library (althoughI have had trouble getting some of the Bible history selections from our library

- In addition their customer service is awesome, I have talked to them multiple times and they are always willing to help in any way that they can.

- All of the kids are studying the same time period together so that when my daughter reads to my younger son she is getting review of the easier material she is studying and often times she gives her brother cool fun facts that she has learned in her reading.

 

Hope this helps!

[LillyMama]

What I think TOG does well that aren't in SOTW are the lapbooks and the Bible Readings. I also got the Writing Essentials and love the Word Bank directions. These have been great for my LG/first graders.

 

I bought the whole she-bang for TOG year 1 and don't use very much of it with my little ones- I lean very heavily on SOTW. But I'm glad I bought it because this next year may be a bit tighter than I originally thought, and it made me realize, with my husband owning his own business, that it was a pretty good investment for the future. I guess I feel like, if I have the money now and will use it later, I should buy it now. Who knows where we'll be financially in four years.

[I.Dup.]

We have 3 children - dd 6th grade - Dialectic level; ds 4th grade - Upper Grammar level; ds 1st grade - Lower Grammar Level. We have been using TOG for 6 years and we love it. I have also used SOTW as it lines up with TOG because I happen to have a copy of it, but TOG is so much richer. Here is an off the top of my head list of things that I enjoy about TOG.

 

- The literature selections connect to what they are learning in History

- They get a solidly christian worldview

- Guided discussions! I am no good at doing this on my own so I love that they have the questions and ideas for discussion all layed out for me.

- You can easily choose how much or how little you do (on busy weeks we just do the core history)

- I don't have to search for hands on projects they have done the searchig for me

- We use the compter version now and I love how searchable it is and that I can easily print out the questions and worksheets.

- The majority of the resources are available fromt he library (althoughI have had trouble getting some of the Bible history selections from our library

- In addition their customer service is awesome, I have talked to them multiple times and they are always willing to help in any way that they can.

- All of the kids are studying the same time period together so that when my daughter reads to my younger son she is getting review of the easier material she is studying and often times she gives her brother cool fun facts that she has learned in her reading.

 

Hope this helps!

 

That does help, thank you! I love your point about the older ones reading to the younger ones about the same time period!

 

What I think TOG does well that aren't in SOTW are the lapbooks and the Bible Readings. I also got the Writing Essentials and love the Word Bank directions. These have been great for my LG/first graders.

 

I bought the whole she-bang for TOG year 1 and don't use very much of it with my little ones- I lean very heavily on SOTW. But I'm glad I bought it because this next year may be a bit tighter than I originally thought, and it made me realize, with my husband owning his own business, that it was a pretty good investment for the future. I guess I feel like, if I have the money now and will use it later, I should buy it now. Who knows where we'll be financially in four years.

 

Thank you! I will have to look into the writing essentials and the word bank dictionaries. Did you purchase the lap book templates?

[Tracy]

Thank you! I will have to look into the writing essentials and the word bank dictionaries. Did you purchase the lap book templates?

 

You will want to do some research before you buy the lapbooks or WriteAids. They get very mixed reviews. Some love them, but many have struggled with them.

 

I understand the lapbooks target the UG level. So unless your LG kids are very good at that sort of thing or you personally love helping them with lapbooks, then you may want to wait a few years.

 

I bought WA, but it was simultaneously not enough and too much for my dd7. The word bank idea was too simple for her. It involves putting words on cards and coding them according to their parts of speech. As I thought about the words we would use, I realized that she would see many of them as more than one part of speech (for example, the words "flower" and "map" can be both nouns and verbs). It was going to become too complicated a project.

 

The student is then supposed to use those cards to form original sentences. I knew that even if I could get her to form an original sentence (which I had my doubts about), it inevitably was going to use words that were not in her word bank, or the idea she wanted to convey was going to be too complex for her to put into words.

 

I also felt that there was not enough instruction for me, the teacher, as to how to teach the student. It is a great reference for high school, though, so I am glad that I have it. But I will only use it after my students know how to write a basic essay. For now, we are using WWE.

[bethben]

I too have debated the SOTW and TOG thing for my youngest. I even went ahead and bought SOTW and the activity book. But as I went through my bookshelves for year 1, I realized I had almost all the books to make TOG a go for LG ( I like not having to mess with the library). I like all the Bible emphasis in year 1, so I may just go that direction. I have all four years of TOG because for a while they were considering going all digital and I really dislike reading long stuff like that on the computer. As my ds approaches dialectic, it is excellent preparation for "thinking". Some of those questions are HARD! He's going to really have to learn how to think rather that just spit out comprehension questions. One of them for example asks the child to compare and contrast Joshua and Moses. They then are asked to explain how they reflect Jesus and to give Bible verses to back it up. Needless to say, Mr. 6th grader is going to need help with the increase of brain power he's going to have to use.

 

I also had trouble with WA. I had NO IDEA how to teach writing and it just wasn't enough hand holding for me. I like using IEW in those younger years, but for my ds#2, I may go back to WA because I know how to teach writing better and he's done three years of IEW now. I am roughly planning to use the IEW writing skills we've both learned and tweak the WA a bit to fit IEW units.

[LillyMama]

You will want to do some research before you buy the lapbooks or WriteAids. They get very mixed reviews. Some love them, but many have struggled with them.

 

I understand the lapbooks target the UG level. So unless your LG kids are very good at that sort of thing or you personally love helping them with lapbooks, then you may want to wait a few years.

 

I bought WA, but it was simultaneously not enough and too much for my dd7. The word bank idea was too simple for her. It involves putting words on cards and coding them according to their parts of speech. As I thought about the words we would use, I realized that she would see many of them as more than one part of speech (for example, the words "flower" and "map" can be both nouns and verbs). It was going to become too complicated a project.

 

The student is then supposed to use those cards to form original sentences. I knew that even if I could get her to form an original sentence (which I had my doubts about), it inevitably was going to use words that were not in her word bank, or the idea she wanted to convey was going to be too complex for her to put into words.

 

I also felt that there was not enough instruction for me, the teacher, as to how to teach the student. It is a great reference for high school, though, so I am glad that I have it. But I will only use it after my students know how to write a basic essay. For now, we are using WWE.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

It's funny how different kids can be. I purchased the pre-printed lap books instead of the templates because, at the time, my husband was on my case about paper and ink. ;) I cut and glued the first one myself and my kids like them. I wouldn't necessarily say that we use them as they were fully intended- I write in a lot of the information for them- but I like the fact that they sort of move in chronological order, from left to right. I feel like both TOG-1 and SOTW-1 jump around a bit in the first few chapters and my kids were getting confused with what came first. Even with a timeline on the wall. Maybe it's because they're not fluent readers yet. Anyhow, for some reason the lapbook helped them "get" that concept. I also let them hold them while we're reading, as it keeps their hands busy but their minds focused on the task. My kids have some sensory issues, and major cases of the wiggles, so it's been a great tool in that way.

 

As for the Word Bank, we had an opposite experience. When we came across words like flower and map, we actually wrote them on both a yellow for noun card and an orange for verb card. This helped us talk a bit more about "are you using it as a verb or a noun?" and then finding the correct card. For some reason, this made the noun vs. verb thing click for them. Also, I told my kids to look at the words and see what sentence they could make, rather than think of a sentence and then look for the cards. So maybe that's why it was easier for them. I don't know, my son is just a very reluctant writer, so the fact that he could practice forming sentences without having to write them helped us past a huge obstacle. His narrations really took off.

 

So, yeah, I agree, find lots of people with lots of experience and see if people describe your kids. Not everything works for everyone. I may not, in hindsight, think that TOG was the most effective use of my money for the LG years, but now that I have it, I have found ways to make it work. I do wish I had known someone who had it so I could have looked through it first. It took me a LONG time to figure out how to get anything out of it for my LGs.

[I.Dup.]

I too have debated the SOTW and TOG thing for my youngest. I even went ahead and bought SOTW and the activity book. But as I went through my bookshelves for year 1, I realized I had almost all the books to make TOG a go for LG ( I like not having to mess with the library). I like all the Bible emphasis in year 1, so I may just go that direction. I have all four years of TOG because for a while they were considering going all digital and I really dislike reading long stuff like that on the computer. As my ds approaches dialectic, it is excellent preparation for "thinking". Some of those questions are HARD! He's going to really have to learn how to think rather that just spit out comprehension questions. One of them for example asks the child to compare and contrast Joshua and Moses. They then are asked to explain how they reflect Jesus and to give Bible verses to back it up. Needless to say, Mr. 6th grader is going to need help with the increase of brain power he's going to have to use.

 

That sounds great and is exactly what I want for my older kids, thank you!!

 

You will want to do some research before you buy the lapbooks or WriteAids. They get very mixed reviews. Some love them, but many have struggled with them.

 

I understand the lapbooks target the UG level. So unless your LG kids are very good at that sort of thing or you personally love helping them with lapbooks, then you may want to wait a few years.

 

I bought WA, but it was simultaneously not enough and too much for my dd7. The word bank idea was too simple for her. It involves putting words on cards and coding them according to their parts of speech. As I thought about the words we would use, I realized that she would see many of them as more than one part of speech (for example, the words "flower" and "map" can be both nouns and verbs). It was going to become too complicated a project.

 

The student is then supposed to use those cards to form original sentences. I knew that even if I could get her to form an original sentence (which I had my doubts about), it inevitably was going to use words that were not in her word bank, or the idea she wanted to convey was going to be too complex for her to put into words.

 

I also felt that there was not enough instruction for me, the teacher, as to how to teach the student. It is a great reference for high school, though, so I am glad that I have it. But I will only use it after my students know how to write a basic essay. For now, we are using WWE.

 

Thank you for the extra info! I think I will skip the WA but do the lapbooks. That's one of the things my kids remember most about when we tried out TOG a couple years ago.

[lea1]

We are using SOTW as our spine and using book recommendations from both SOTW and TOG.

 

I started the semester just using TOG Year 1. Very quickly we were in a section where most of the readings were from a Bible or Children's Bible. We have been reading these to our sons at bedtime since they were babies so they really know these stories inside and out. I also happened to have SOTW so I took a look at the books recommended in the AG.

 

Eventually, it morphed into what we have now, which is using SOTW for our main readings, coloring page and map work. Use both SOTW & TOG for book recommendations and the projects.

 

So, for now, we are using very little of TOG year 1 and I am debating on whether to continue to purchase it as we go along each year for future use. I'm pretty solid that I want to use it as my sons get older. I do really like having it in advance. I have had lots of time to meander through it, think about it and ponder how I want to use it going forward.

 

I also bought WA and, while it does not provide enough detail for me to use to teach writing to my sons, it does have a lot of good potential for future use so I am glad to have it.