Another writing question: ESSENTIALS in WRITING

[jenL]

I know it's very new, but if you have begun using it, can you tell me how it's going? I'm looking for systematic and thorough for next year for 4th grade, and from the video clip I've seen, it appears that it may be? I'd love the pros & cons if anyone has them.

[houseofkids&pets]

:bigear: Giving this a bump since I am listening too.

[Tess in the Burbs]

:bigear:

[MerryAtHope]

I haven't posted a review on my blog yet (keep meaning to get to that, busy end of school year!) but I've answered some threads on here about it. Here are some links:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...d.php?t=348381

Iew vs Essentials:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326752&highlight=Essentials

Other threads:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...ght=Essentials'>http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...ght=Essentials'>http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...ght=Essentials'>http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...ght=Essentials

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...ght=Essentials

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360795&highlight=Essentials

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355956&highlight=Essentials

[Pen]

Have got the 4th grade level here. Writing is a problem area, and so far no program has gone really well long term past the shiny new just out of the box stage. So, I have several and come back to them and away again. Is there anything I could answer that would help you, since I have it at the right grade, to decide how it would be for your particular child?

[jenL]

Have got the 4th grade level here. Writing is a problem area, and so far no program has gone really well long term past the shiny new just out of the box stage. So, I have several and come back to them and away again. Is there anything I could answer that would help you, since I have it at the right grade, to decide how it would be for your particular child?

 

Pen, this would be for 4th grade for my son who LOVES details, so paring things down is very difficult for him. He can write a very basic paragraph. He likes things to be very succinct and orderly. I'm looking for something where the lessons are short (it seems they are), but meaty. I'm planning on keeping WWE4 for narrations and I will be using the dictations as copywork.

 

What are the main focus points for 4th grade?

[jenL]

I haven't posted a review on my blog yet (keep meaning to get to that, busy end of school year!) but I've answered some threads on here about it. Here are some links:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...d.php?t=348381

Iew vs Essentials:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326752&highlight=Essentials

Other threads:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...ght=Essentials'>http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...ght=Essentials'>http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...ght=Essentials'>http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...ght=Essentials

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forum...ght=Essentials

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360795&highlight=Essentials

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355956&highlight=Essentials

 

Merry, you are GREAT! Thank you! I'm going to look through these now! I appreciate you sharing all the links... sometimes it's tough to search, so this helps tremendously!

[Pen]

Pen, this would be for 4th grade for my son who LOVES details, so paring things down is very difficult for him. He can write a very basic paragraph. He likes things to be very succinct and orderly. I'm looking for something where the lessons are short (it seems they are), but meaty. I'm planning on keeping WWE4 for narrations and I will be using the dictations as copywork.

 

What are the main focus points for 4th grade?

 

First, Essentials for 4th grade to me seems much easier, in general, than Zaner-Bloser's third grade materials (and btw, I suggest that you take a look at Zaner-Bloser's Strategies for Writers among your options), though bits may be more difficult. So, yes, short, for sure, but maybe or maybe not as meaty as you are looking for.

 

The opening gives reasons for writing well and has examples of things that are hard to read because not well written. Then the rest of the around first half is grammar and some usage and mechanics. (Which again is more basic than Zaner-Bloser grade 3 G.U.M..) But perhaps is the gist of what needs to be known, and is short.

 

The second half is writing per se. And maybe you would want to start there since your son can already write a paragraph.

 

I think it does a good job with the writing process steps of pre-writing, draft, revise, edit, publish/share.

 

It has a variety of graphic organizers for writing, so that might be of help to your son, in getting structure and figuring out how much detail. And also, I think, very helpful checklists like "Does your beginning "grab" the reader?" Various such questions are presented for Intro, Conclusion, Overall, Mechanics, for various types of writing. The instructions often seem to call for just one paragraph, but the checklists seem to suppose that there may be more than one.

 

Then toward the end of the book (written exercises) there are instructions that look pretty good to me for step by step writing of an Informational Report, including a bibliography. This looks like a major focus and high point of the 4th grade EIW program--and if that could be learned and learned well from it, might justify the whole thing.

 

After that it goes into some other types of writing, some of which seem to me they would be much easier than the report (and I wonder why it is that they appear after the informational report with research and bibliography), such as a Thank You letter, and making lists.

 

I hope that helps.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Pen

[MerryAtHope]

After that it goes into some other types of writing, some of which seem to me they would be much easier than the report (and I wonder why it is that they appear after the informational report with research and bibliography), such as a Thank You letter, and making lists.

 

I hope that helps.

 

In the 7th grade level, there was an explanation (either in the video or TM or somewhere!) about alternating longer and harder projects with shorter and easier writing assignments. Maybe in 4th grade he didn't want to end the year with a long and difficult assignment? (I personally don't feel like doing a research report in May--end of year here--with my kids, I'd like to be wrapping things up and winding down, so maybe it's something along those lines?)

[jenL]

First, Essentials for 4th grade to me seems much easier, in general, than Zaner-Bloser's third grade materials (and btw, I suggest that you take a look at Zaner-Bloser's Strategies for Writers among your options), though bits may be more difficult. So, yes, short, for sure, but maybe or maybe not as meaty as you are looking for.

 

The opening gives reasons for writing well and has examples of things that are hard to read because not well written. Then the rest of the around first half is grammar and some usage and mechanics. (Which again is more basic than Zaner-Bloser grade 3 G.U.M..) But perhaps is the gist of what needs to be known, and is short.

 

The second half is writing per se. And maybe you would want to start there since your son can already write a paragraph.

 

I think it does a good job with the writing process steps of pre-writing, draft, revise, edit, publish/share.

 

It has a variety of graphic organizers for writing, so that might be of help to your son, in getting structure and figuring out how much detail. And also, I think, very helpful checklists like "Does your beginning "grab" the reader?" Various such questions are presented for Intro, Conclusion, Overall, Mechanics, for various types of writing. The instructions often seem to call for just one paragraph, but the checklists seem to suppose that there may be more than one.

 

Then toward the end of the book (written exercises) there are instructions that look pretty good to me for step by step writing of an Informational Report, including a bibliography. This looks like a major focus and high point of the 4th grade EIW program--and if that could be learned and learned well from it, might justify the whole thing.

 

After that it goes into some other types of writing, some of which seem to me they would be much easier than the report (and I wonder why it is that they appear after the informational report with research and bibliography), such as a Thank You letter, and making lists.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Thank you SO much for this breakdown! I will take a look at Zaner Bloser...

 

My concern is all the grammar that you mention which takes up the first half (or less) of the year. We are already doing R&S and have been since 2nd grade. He's pretty solid with grammar. Hmmm... I may email EIW and see what they suggest.

 

I do like the idea of the longer report not coming toward the end for reasons as Merry suggested (mentally done by May).

 

So much to contemplate now!

[Pen]

Thank you SO much for this breakdown! I will take a look at Zaner Bloser...

 

My concern is all the grammar that you mention which takes up the first half (or less) of the year. We are already doing R&S and have been since 2nd grade. He's pretty solid with grammar. Hmmm... I may email EIW and see what they suggest.

 

I do like the idea of the longer report not coming toward the end for reasons as Merry suggested (mentally done by May).

 

So much to contemplate now!

 

Contacting EIW is a good idea. I do think from what you describe the first part may not be of much use to you (OTOH, it is not all that expensive, Z-B splits its grammar and writing curriculum so you don't need to buy both, but my recollection is that the whole of EIW is around the same as just Z-B's writing part maybe less, so maybe you could just go straight to the second part where the real writing is--and maybe do more than one research report etc.). All the early grade levels of EIW have grammar in first half and writing in second. Or you could try dropping the R&S and just doing EIW for a year grammar and all.

 

I thought I would add that my son chose to go with EIW for what we will do this summer, so apparently it is his current favorite of his choices--he likes to sit and watch the video with his own lap whiteboard.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Pen

[Pen]

In the 7th grade level, there was an explanation (either in the video or TM or somewhere!) about alternating longer and harder projects with shorter and easier writing assignments. Maybe in 4th grade he didn't want to end the year with a long and difficult assignment? (I personally don't feel like doing a research report in May--end of year here--with my kids, I'd like to be wrapping things up and winding down, so maybe it's something along those lines?)

 

Ahh. That makes a lot of sense! Ever since my son did his state mandated testing in April it has been hard to keep focus on the fact that the regular school year is not over. So yes, it would be best to get that culmination of the program in while it still feels like school time.

[jenL]

Contacting EIW is a good idea. I do think from what you describe the first part may not be of much use to you (OTOH, it is not all that expensive, Z-B splits its grammar and writing curriculum so you don't need to buy both, but my recollection is that the whole of EIW is around the same as just Z-B's writing part maybe less, so maybe you could just go straight to the second part where the real writing is--and maybe do more than one research report etc.). All the early grade levels of EIW have grammar in first half and writing in second. Or you could try dropping the R&S and just doing EIW for a year grammar and all.

 

I thought I would add that my son chose to go with EIW for what we will do this summer, so apparently it is his current favorite of his choices--he likes to sit and watch the video with his own lap whiteboard.

 

It's great to hear that your son chose this program for his summer work! That makes your life a bit easier (yes?)! :)

 

I had my son sit and watch a couple of the sample videos, and he declared that he wants to learn writing this way because he "can see it, hear it, and then have a paper or a whiteboard to do it on". So, I guess I have his approval! :D

 

I also contacted EIW today, and within an hour, I had an answer from Matthew Stephens! That is impressive... anyway, I'll share our conversation here since he shed some insight into his philosophy of grammar and writing. My questions were as follows:

 

We are currently using a pretty comprehensive grammar program (Rod & Staff), and we've been using it for the past two years. My plan is to continue with this program as it's thorough, and my son enjoys the brevity of the lessons (he was diagnosed with ADHD this year so this is key). As a result, I'm wondering if you feel it would be possible to skip the grammar sections of your curriculum and just use it for writing? Or, do you feel the grammar sections are brief enough that they would be a nice way to review? Is the 4th grade program primarily geared toward writing (meaning there are more writing lessons than grammar)?

 

His response:

 

It is possible to skip the grammar portion of fourth grade. You

also have the option of skipping only part of them if you like.

 

However, let me give you a quick approach to my thoughts on

grammar. When I teach grammar, I focus on application rather

than diagramming. For example, when I teach about adjectives,

I will have students "find" them in sentences the first day, but then

I will move to activities that USE adjectives. Also, when I teach

verbs, we spend sometime identifying verbs, but then in lesson 20C,

I have students choose a "better" verb than the one that is written.

When I teach nouns, however, there isn't much "application" to nouns,

so the activities are more search, find, and label, etc.

 

Also, I might mention that "sentence" lessons are interwoven throughout

the grammar portion of the curriculum. So, with that I suggest the

following:

 

If you were going to use the curriculum for composition purposes,

there are some lessons in the beginning that I'd recommend that

your student covers before moving into composition. This is only

a recommendation, however, as you have complete freedom to

use the curriculum as it fits your needs.

 

The lessons that I would include are:

 

1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 19, 20C, 23, and then 29 and on.

 

If you choose to do all of the grammar, I do not feel it is "heavy"

but rather the "basics" as my goal is to focus more on composition

than on diagramming sentences.

 

Let me say in regards to my last statement. Sometimes statements

such as this can be taken out of context when written in an email

communication. Having said that...I'm happy to visit with you

by phone to explain in greater detail if you like.

 

Because there are many grammatical concepts taught, it could appear

that the curriculum is "heavy" on grammar and light on composition.

In my opinion, however, the curriculum is more of a composition focused

because I do not spend a great amount of time teaching extended grammar

concepts. I hit the basics and how they apply to composition and shift

to writing narratives, paragraphs, descriptive and persuasive writing activities, etc. Equally, there are several "sentence" lessons early on as well.

 

 

I feel more confident in his approach and the inclusion of the grammar now, especially as this is how I see the two subjects eventually working their way together as a child becomes a more experienced writer. I'm thinking that I will continue with R&S since it's so thorough and lessons can be quick. If I decide to use EIW (I'm leaning heavily toward it), then I will follow his suggestions above, possibly adding in lessons he's excluded for "review" if I see they would benefit ds.

[scrapbabe]

It's great to hear that your son chose this program for his summer work! That makes your life a bit easier (yes?)! :)

 

I had my son sit and watch a couple of the sample videos, and he declared that he wants to learn writing this way because he "can see it, hear it, and then have a paper or a whiteboard to do it on". So, I guess I have his approval! :D

 

I also contacted EIW today, and within an hour, I had an answer from Matthew Stephens! That is impressive... anyway, I'll share our conversation here since he shed some insight into his philosophy of grammar and writing. My questions were as follows:

 

We are currently using a pretty comprehensive grammar program (Rod & Staff), and we've been using it for the past two years. My plan is to continue with this program as it's thorough, and my son enjoys the brevity of the lessons (he was diagnosed with ADHD this year so this is key). As a result, I'm wondering if you feel it would be possible to skip the grammar sections of your curriculum and just use it for writing? Or, do you feel the grammar sections are brief enough that they would be a nice way to review? Is the 4th grade program primarily geared toward writing (meaning there are more writing lessons than grammar)?

 

His response:

 

It is possible to skip the grammar portion of fourth grade. You

also have the option of skipping only part of them if you like.

 

However, let me give you a quick approach to my thoughts on

grammar. When I teach grammar, I focus on application rather

than diagramming. For example, when I teach about adjectives,

I will have students "find" them in sentences the first day, but then

I will move to activities that USE adjectives. Also, when I teach

verbs, we spend sometime identifying verbs, but then in lesson 20C,

I have students choose a "better" verb than the one that is written.

When I teach nouns, however, there isn't much "application" to nouns,

so the activities are more search, find, and label, etc.

 

Also, I might mention that "sentence" lessons are interwoven throughout

the grammar portion of the curriculum. So, with that I suggest the

following:

 

If you were going to use the curriculum for composition purposes,

there are some lessons in the beginning that I'd recommend that

your student covers before moving into composition. This is only

a recommendation, however, as you have complete freedom to

use the curriculum as it fits your needs.

 

The lessons that I would include are:

 

1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 19, 20C, 23, and then 29 and on.

 

If you choose to do all of the grammar, I do not feel it is "heavy"

but rather the "basics" as my goal is to focus more on composition

than on diagramming sentences.

 

Let me say in regards to my last statement. Sometimes statements

such as this can be taken out of context when written in an email

communication. Having said that...I'm happy to visit with you

by phone to explain in greater detail if you like.

 

Because there are many grammatical concepts taught, it could appear

that the curriculum is "heavy" on grammar and light on composition.

In my opinion, however, the curriculum is more of a composition focused

because I do not spend a great amount of time teaching extended grammar

concepts. I hit the basics and how they apply to composition and shift

to writing narratives, paragraphs, descriptive and persuasive writing activities, etc. Equally, there are several "sentence" lessons early on as well.

 

 

I feel more confident in his approach and the inclusion of the grammar now, especially as this is how I see the two subjects eventually working their way together as a child becomes a more experienced writer. I'm thinking that I will continue with R&S since it's so thorough and lessons can be quick. If I decide to use EIW (I'm leaning heavily toward it), then I will follow his suggestions above, possibly adding in lessons he's excluded for "review" if I see they would benefit ds.

 

Thank you so much for this!!

[LittleIzumi]

Now I want to use it just from that email, and I don't even know exactly what it is. :lol:

[jenL]

Now I want to use it just from that email, and I don't even know exactly what it is. :lol:

 

Yes! I was so impressed too!

 

Scrapbabe, you are very welcome!

[Pen]

It's great to hear that your son chose this program for his summer work! That makes your life a bit easier (yes?)! :)

 

[/color]

 

Yes. It will make it somewhat less parent demanding than some other options. Also since he chose it, I hope less of a battle to get it done.