Using TOG and CC at the same time

[bethben]

I know this has been discussed in various places and formats, but what is your opinion on using both of these programs at the same time. This would involve joining a Classical Conversations group while doing TOG at the same time. would it be too much for

 

1. Grammar stage students?

 

2. Dialectic students?

 

Is there anything you have to not do in either program?

 

Do they complement each other or compete with each other?

 

Beth

[CAmomof4]

:bigear:

[bethben]

I'll answer my own question - here's my take on Essentials. I think it would compliment TOG - assuming you're on TOG year 1 next year. It gives parents a solid grammar program (assuming you have a good tutor - a bad one would make the whole program only more confusing) and IEW writing which next year is the ancients. It meets in the afternoons which gives you the morning to complete other studies.

 

As far as Foundations, I found a 4 day week very doable for my pre-K and 1st grader. For my 6th grader, he really needed quite a bit extra to make it a full program (science, history readings, Latin program). The 4 day work week was not enough time to really devote to learning what he needed at that level. CC foundations was not enough. I can't imagine adding a foundations/essentials course to the dialectic TOG level without something not being done as well.

 

We will be continuing with CC memory work as it relates to our TOG studies next year. Just for background - we've done 2 years with TOG followed by a year with CC. We are going back to TOG. We won't be joining a CC community.

 

Beth

Edited May 18, 2012 by bethben

[Guest pamperedsteph]

Thanks for setting this up, Beth. I've looked at CC for 3 years and finally decided to join this year. I used TOG for 2 years and got a bad case of "The Grass is Greener" and tried Sonlight and Trail Guide to Learning this year. Neither worked for us as well as TOG did. We also tried a co-op. I was not really happy with the input of my time teaching a middle school science vs. what I felt my kids were getting out of it. I decided to give CC a try but am very nervous about the workload for my 5th and 6th graders.

 

I'm probably going to leave out the TOG writing and cut back on some of the reading. I have no idea what I'll be looking at as far as time committment for CC for the Essentials class. We may find at the end of this year that we are just not co-op people.

[datimasa]

I haven't used either, but based on friends who have done CC, that ALONE can burn someone out. So, I imagine combining it with TOG, which many people find overwhelming, would be WAY overkill.

[FlyingMOm]

I tried combining CC with TOG last year. We ended up dropping out of CC in October. It was sucking all of the life & joy & fun out of our homeschool. :( It is a LOT to do both fully & completely and cc just did not provide the kind of education I wanted for our kids.

 

It is difficult to keep CC & TOG synced together as they move at different paces. CC moves very fast- they cover in 3 weeks what we spent a semester on in TOG. I think the fast pace makes it hard to supplement cc in a way complements the depth of Tapestry.

[bethben]

It is difficult to keep CC & TOG synced together as they move at different paces. CC moves very fast- they cover in 3 weeks what we spent a semester on in TOG. I think the fast pace makes it hard to supplement cc in a way complements the depth of Tapestry.

 

Here is an example: I am co-coordinating CC history sentences with my TOG year 1. I will wind up using 10 out of the 24. I am also combining CC science facts with Apologia Astronomy. I will wind up using sentences from cycle 1 and cycle 2 during the program.

 

I think trying to co-ordinate the two is impossible if you use CC as the base. If you use TOG as the base, it's easier, but you will wind up using sentences from 2-3 cycles to fit into one TOG year. CC goes through history in a MUCH different way than your 4 year cycle.

 

If you just want to join CC for the community and accountability, I found that I spent 20 minutes a day on the memory work and my kids learned it well enough to compete in games. Just don't plan that CC and TOG will match up. You'll give them pegs on the wall so to speak, but you won't have time to explain all those pegs if you also plan to complete a TOG program.

 

Beth

[thegirlwhopaintedtrees]

Here is an example: I am co-coordinating CC history sentences with my TOG year 1. I will wind up using 10 out of the 24. I am also combining CC science facts with Apologia Astronomy. I will wind up using sentences from cycle 1 and cycle 2 during the program.

 

I think trying to co-ordinate the two is impossible if you use CC as the base. If you use TOG as the base, it's easier, but you will wind up using sentences from 2-3 cycles to fit into one TOG year. CC goes through history in a MUCH different way than your 4 year cycle.

 

If you just want to join CC for the community and accountability, I found that I spent 20 minutes a day on the memory work and my kids learned it well enough to compete in games. Just don't plan that CC and TOG will match up. You'll give them pegs on the wall so to speak, but you won't have time to explain all those pegs if you also plan to complete a TOG program.

 

Beth

 

We don't use TOG, but we almost didn't sign up for CC again this coming year because I got burned out trying to keep up the pace of CC. This year we will be approaching CC differently; the way Beth explained about twenty minutes per day on memory work, and not worrying if SOTW corresponds toh the memory work or not.

[Guest karintom]

So those of you that do it, and attend the CC community, do you try to correlate your CC memory work to the corresponding TOG week, or do you just stick with the TOG yearly plan, and not worry about them correlating?

[bethben]

Don't try to correlate TOG with CC memory work. I'll give you an example. In Cycle 2, the memory work spans from 800 AD to 1994. In order to have enough units of TOG to fit into the CC memory work cycle, you would have to own 3 full years of TOG and find the matching weeks. Cycle 1 spans from creation to 1822 - 3 full years of TOG. Cycle 3 spans from 1492 - 2001 - 2 1/2 years of TOG. It's easier to start with TOG and add in CC memory work, but then you can't really be in a community.

 

If you really want to do TOG and CC, the best advice I have is to just enjoy your community and enjoy TOG but don't expect them to match up.

 

Beth

[Hedgehogs4]

I really think this question depends on two things. One, how easily stressed you are about getting your money's worth out of a product, and two, how much money you have to spend. I think it would be very difficult to do both well. I personally do not find the two very compatible. I wrote a blog post called A Change of Seasons in which I thoroughly lay out my reasons for changing from CC to TOG.

 

Both products are expensive--there's no getting around that. After doing both of them, I personally have found TOG to be a much better investment. We have accomplished so much more this year than we ever have, and have loved it all!

[AngelBee]

I am thinking it would be a lot. I have looked at CC (we use TOG) but I think it not matching up would drive me crazy.

[jbtandem]

I've used TOG for 6 years and have been intrigued by CC for probably 3 years. I have a dear friend who uses CC as her curriculum and loves it. I personally felt that trying to do CC AND TOG was just too much. I'm also not in favor of the exorbitant tuition fees for CC. I just don't see that the additional cost will really benefit my children. I do however really like the idea of the memory work as CC uses it and wanted to find a way to combine that aspect with TOG. There are some people out there who have done it. One in particular posted on the TOG yahoo group that she had done this and was willing to share it. You might want to do a search on the group for "using CC and TOG."

 

I have heard from CC users that the co-op day is essentially memory work and exposing the children to the new concepts or the new lessons for the week, and then you can go home and use TOG to teach those history lessons, or any other curriculum of your choice, your choice of science curriculum to support the science lessons, etc. So, can they be used together? Yes, is it seamless? No. Obviously not! TOG is a 4 year cycle, CC is a 3 year cycle. Are there ways to work around it? Of course! It just depends on what you want to get out of your school year.

 

Honestly, I've seen a lot of CC users end up buying TOG or moving completely over to TOG. It's rare that I've seen a TOG user use CC as additional curriculum, it's even more rare that a TOG user moves completely over to CC.

 

My personal choice is to not do CC as it's just too expensive and I don't see the benefits outweighing the cost. I have all the TOG curriculum and have opted to incorporate the memory work aspect of CC with TOG at home. But that is what I have deemed best for my family and our budget.

 

Blessings,

Diane

Contact me privately at jbtandem@yahoo.com if you have questions...I rarely check the WTM board!

[Guest Tina Jobe]

Hello Ladies,

 

I saw the original thread on the ToG group. I have been using ToG for 5 years and I'm on a core team for a ToG co-op of 24 families. I do not recommend trying to combine ToG with CC. While I've not been a part of CC, I am very familiar with their curriculum. It is comprehensive and does not need "supplementing." If you really wanted to enrich it with additional activities, you could do so just by searching the internet for writing topics, art, etc. ToG is a rich, very full curriculum. My advice is to use it and meet with just another family or two if there is no ToG co-op. Otherwise, so much of what you are purchasing, you will not use. ToG works beautifully in a co-op setting. One wonderful advantage is that even the high schoolers stay on the same history track as younger siblings. I love how all the subjects focus on the history. The unit study/Classical approach lends itself so well to full-family learning. I understand the need for learning in community. Personally, I prefer the ToG curriculum over CC. However, I know there aren't as many ToG co-ops. If it's not possible to start one and the weekly accountability of CC is highly important, I'd just do CC. There is no need to overbuy and stress in owning too much curriculum. Before joining CC, I'd seriously consider ToG. It truly is the best out there, and I know many families who've met the need for accountability with a small group of families all committed to the ToG curriculum.

[LillyMama]

We are going to try to both this year, with my two first graders, at the foundations level. Here's what I'm thinking:

 

We do a May-April school year. So we're three weeks in to TOG-1.

 

I got our CC stuff last week and we have just added some of the memory work to our Calendar Time. Not ALL of the memory work, just some. So we've done the first few history weeks, as they line up with what we're doing, the math facts, and the grammar for one week, the ten commandments for the first two weeks, etc.

 

My theory is to spend the May, June, July and August going half-speed through CC. Then if we join the group in September, we'll have some of it under our belt and it won't be so over-whelming. If we don't join the group, we'll just take a whole year to get through what they do in six months.

 

My issue with just using CC is that I prefer the four year cycle of TOG and therefore I like the slower pacing. But I like the memory work for CC, and the structure of how they lay it out gives me a little accountability as I'm not very good at memorizing or encouraging my kids to do it.

 

I think, like so many have said before, it's all about what you want to get out of it. I thought the CC curricula pieces were not too extravagant in cost, but if we join a group, I know that my costs will double. That plays a huge role in my decision of how to proceed.

[Guest Bepette]

We have been part of a wonderful CC community for three years. For us, CC is the icing on the cake. It is strictly memory work with the accountability. We love it. We don't try to make it work with SOTW or TOG, I'd be very stressed if I tried that. :-)

[k3bzr18]

We have been part of a wonderful CC community for three years. For us, CC is the icing on the cake. It is strictly memory work with the accountability. We love it. We don't try to make it work with SOTW or TOG, I'd be very stressed if I tried that. :-)

 

:iagree: