Canterbury Tales selections and Shakespeare selection help...

[Robin in DFW]

Which 2 or 3 Canterbury Tales would be the best to cover? Not too rude. Funny is great.

 

And a Shakespeare play? Maybe Julius Caesar?

 

Ds will be 15 (10th grade) if that makes a difference.

 

We are doing World History next year (10th) and will cover Ancient Lit through Medieval/Early Ren. Lit. {fwiw...we will cover American Lit while doing US History (11th) and will cover early modern/modern world Lit while doing Gov/Econ (12th)}

 

I have the following selections planned for next year with the likely possibility that a couple may have to be dropped or changed (ds is a slow reader).

 

Epic of Gilgamesh

Mythology by Edith Hamilton (limited selections)

The Odyssey

Oedipus the King

Beowulf

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight

The Canterbury Tales (a brief selection based on the hive's rec's)

The Once and Future King-this one is a maybe depending on our progress

A Shakespeare play-TBD

 

We do use study guides for our books...it helps me ask the right questions and it helps ds stay on task. I also read the books as he reads them so we can discuss as necessary.

 

Thanks,

Robin

[swimmermom3]

Robin, what Shakespeare plays have you already done?

[Lori D.]

My vote :tongue_smilie: would be:

Canterbury Tales = Nun's Priest's Tale; The Pardoner's Tale; The Knight's Tale

Shakespeare = Macbeth

 

 

Two DSs here. For Shakespeare, we have done both Hamlet and Macbeth. The timing of Macbeth was unexpectedly fabulous -- we happened to do it right after Beowulf, which made for some very interesting connections. The culture/setting of Macbeth is not too far from that of Beowulf, and then we enjoyed the compare/contrast of the two title characters -- their choices and the consequences.

 

I note you will be doing not only Beowulf, but also Oedipus Rex, which would ALSO make for some very interesting comparisons -- Oedipus does have hubris (pride), but even more, he is fated to fall. Macbeth falls by choosing to act and make the witches' prophesy come true -- and then struggles with his conscience: "was I fated to do this, or did I choose it... And can I turn back, or am I in so deep I should just keep going?"

 

For a guide, we really liked the Parallel Shakespeare materials; at a minimum, go with the teacher guide, or better, the teacher guide and the student workbook. Their materials include:

1. parallel text of the play, with lengthy background material as intro

2. student workbook, with guided questions (literary element and analysis/discussion), exercise/writing assignment ideas

3. teacher workbook (answers to workbook)

4. teacher guide (pre-reading discussion questions, detailed answers to the post-reading discussion and literary element questions, teaching suggestions/activities, an act summary, writing suggestions, defined vocabulary list)

 

For a great go-along, after reading the play, we watched Akira Kurasawa's "Throne of Blood", which is Macbeth set in Japanese Samurai times. Fun!

 

If you have already done Macbeth, other accessible works would include:

tragedies: Hamlet, Othello, King Lear, Romeo & Juliet

comedies: Much Ado About Nothing, Taming of the Shrew, Twelfth Night, Merchant of Venice, Midsummer Night's Dream, The Tempest

histories: Julius Caesar, Henry V

Here is a past thread on what would be a good first Shakespeare play. Here and here are helpful threads on teaching Shakespeare.

 

 

 

Of the Canterbury Tales, we did four; of those, I recommend three. Also be sure to read the conversations that go before and after each tale, as the characters comment on each tale -- and on each other -- giving you a fuller sense of the times and culture and the variety of social classes and their different mindsets. In addition to reading SOME of the Prologue (very long), I suggest also reading the Retraction (very short). Because you are doing some of the ancient epics, you might consider The Knight's Tale for the connections and contrasts.

 

The Librarius website has side-by-side original text/modern translation (in verse). We read the modern translation, but it did give us a chance to every so often dip into the original. The No Fear section of Sparknotes online also has side-by-side original and translation text for the Tales, while the literature guide article on Sparknotes has background info on Chaucer, and analysis of the work.

 

1. Nun's Priest's Tale -- short; fable-like (animal characters, with a moral)

We did this because it is probably the most famous story, featuring the character of Chaunticleer the Rooster.

 

2. Pardoner's Tale -- short; ironic; fable or fairytale-like

A great, archetypal tale, in which three men go looking for Death -- and find him.

 

3. The Knight's Tale -- long; like an ancient Greek tragedy/epic

You can then watch the 2001 film "A Knight's Tale", in which Chaucer is one of the characters. While it is not at all based on "The Knight's Tale" by Chaucer, it's a rolicking fun film, a bit like a rock opera.

 

I would suggest avoiding the Miller's Tale; we did it to contrast the themes of love -- high, courtly idea of love held by the Knight in The Knight's Tale with the low, fleshly idea of physical attraction without love in The Miller's Tale -- but we just found The Miller's Tale to be crude and not as well written as the other three tales we read.

 

Past threads with recommendations of which tales: here, here, here, and here.

 

 

Whatever you go with, enjoy your Literature Adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Lori D.

[swimmermom3]

Lori's recommendation for Macbeth is a solid one if you have not done it already. It was the first work of Shakespeare that we did here because I feel it is one of the most accessible of his plays. We have done Julius Caesar as well, but it came after Macbeth, Hamlet, and the Merchant of Venice. It is a fine play, but not nearly as gripping as Macbeth.

 

I would like to throw a thought out there for your consideration. If your son is a slow reader, don't flog to death whichever play you choose with a lot of formal analysis. If you read the play, he reads the play, you both discuss it, and you see a stage version, you will cover a lot of ground because he will be a willing participant.

 

I hope this makes some sense. Your reading list for next year looks great.

[swimmermom3]

Hey Lori, a quick question for you. Do your boys have a preference for Shakespeare's comedies, tragedies, or histories?

[Robin in DFW]

Thanks so much, Lori! Your information databank is infinite and fabulous! We will most likely do MacBeth, then!

 

Lisa...I am ashamed to admit, ds hasn't done any Shakespeare. I haven't pushed it because he is a slow reader and up until now has had a definite preference in reading materials...nature, adventure stories, things with animals...we have also never followed a particular pattern for lit before...just reading, discussing and doing guides for whatever struck our fancy.

 

Anyway, we have discussed next year's selections already and he's actually looking forward to doing something a bit more challenging, although, I don't really think the stories are so difficult, just a different presentation! He knows most of the stories already because we read "junior" versions of them while he went through the SOTW books some years ago.

 

My dd (in college) had a whole hunk of one school year where she read a bunch of Shakespeare. I just let her read and then gave her an essay prompt from the Sparks Notes guides...she likes that sort of thing, though.

 

I remember doing Macbeth in 12th grade with an incredible English teacher who acted out the Lady MacBeth scenes...she had butt length black hair and would let it down and would wring her hands and get all frenzied looking...she rubbed her hands so hard she broke her wedding ring...

 

We are headed off to the Half Price Books to get duplicate copies of our books. I'll look for a parallel version of Macbeth.

 

Thanks for the help!

Robin

[swimmermom3]

There is no shame in not having done Shakespeare until now. I'd rather do it when the time is right than too early for the student.

 

So here is our "lame-girl's" version of studying Shakespeare:

 

1. We study it one day a week - on Friday.

 

2. We read about four full-length plays on average per year, but it really depends on my son's preference. I do not schedule them in advance. For example, I read Leon Garfield's version of Hamlet to ds, he saw a movie version and decided the dialogue was to good to miss; he went back and read the full-length. I think Hamlet is the only play we have done a truely formal study of just because his sister was required to do it at the same time.

 

3. On Friday, we read a Leon Garfield version of the play my son chooses. We also cover 2-3 lessons in Discovering Shakespeare's Language . Then we often watch some version of a play we have read and we talk about it.

 

When ds is finished with 8th grade, he will have some exposure to all of Shakespeare's best works and many of his minor works. I have tried to keep it low key and he is fairly excited about Shakespeare.

 

It is not a "classical" way to study Shakespeare for sure, but we have had a good time.

[JanetC]

I just ask "What's playing for free in Shakespeare in the Park?"

 

This summer, it's Taming of the Shrew, Winter's Tale, 12th Night, Henry VIII. Quite the variety!

 

If you have any Shakespearean companies available to you, go with whatever play you can see live. It makes so much more sense that way.

 

--Janet

[Lori D.]

Hey Lori, a quick question for you. Do your boys have a preference for Shakespeare's comedies, tragedies, or histories?

 

:blushing: Embarrassingly, we haven't really done enough Shakespeare to have a preference: none of the histories; we've only read/discussed/analyzed 2 tragedies, and then we've watched either film or live productions of 2-3 comedies. My list above of what I thought was accessible is from my own remembrances of works I've watched over the years. However, DSs seemed to really dig whatever we've read and/or watched. They do think the comedy parts are a hoot, and they also enjoy the big themes in the tragedies. I avoided the histories, just 'cause *I* think they are not as engaging as the others... (though, the Henry V film has the wonderful St. Crispin Day speech).

 

Like Janet C said -- live performance has been especially enjoyable. DSs also really like Shakespeare "spin-offs" now -- for example, watching Throne of Blood after going through Macbeth. They also really enjoyed the Doctor Who episode set in the Globe Theater, with the Doctor and Martha meeting Shakespeare; and seeing the film "West Side Story"...

 

 

And now for something completely different...

 

 

Hey, Lisa! While I have your attention (LOL!), you had started a thread about Great Books and Historical Fiction in response to comments made by 8FillTheHeart on "THE THREAD" over on the general board -- but then, I never saw any of your thoughts/comments on all the great conversation that got going in your thread; sooo.... what DID you think on reading the thread you started?? :) Hugs, Lori D.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Lori D.

[swimmermom3]

A huge "yes" to live theater. There is a local theater company that plays in a "shoebox " theater. There are probably no more than 40 seats on all four sides of the floor. The actors come and go from three different exits, props are minimal and occasionally an audience member gets to hold a prop. It is a very intimate experience. We were going to go see Much Ado About Nothing- so we read whole play- but then discovered it was set in the 1960s. My kids have not yet advanced to appreciating adaptations that vary much from the original plays so we put it on hold.:tongue_smilie: We also have some free Shakespeare in the park and I appreciate being reminded to go check it out.

 

 

:blush:Lori, we have a family situation that frequently "goes south" right now and it proceeded to do so right after I started that thread. I am going to try and put together what has worked for us this year and get it posted. Shakespeare studies have been a solid part of it and I never really planned that. Having a Shakespeare routine as allowed me to have something solid to hang on to while my other literary plans change at Swimmer Dude's whim.

[Candid]

Julius Caesar would not be my only Shakespeare choice it varies from most of his other plays quite a bit, critics feel he took on much of the staccato language from a translation of the source work he used to give him the historical details. It's a good play but not representative nor is it one of the shorter catalog of Shakespeare's' great plays.

[Robin in DFW]

Macbeth it is! We went to the Half Price Books as promised and picked two copies of the play. I got the version that has facing page "translations"...I guess that's what you call it! I also picked up a Sparks Notes guide...just in case. I will probably try to find a literature guide just so I have "professional" questions and lit terms to go over. I also got duplicates for all the other selections...I read when my ds reads so we have two copies of every book on our shelves.

 

I also offered ds a prose version of Odyssey instead of the verse and he said he'd rather try the verse...well whaddya know...I think he's actually looking forward to trying out some new things next year.

 

I recently gave my dh my "expenses" list for next year. I listed $75 for AOP SOS Spanish (it's on sale right now), $29.95 for Essay Architect, and $50 for literature...the bill for the Literature came to $49.64...can't get much closer!

 

Anyway, ya'lls help has been great and we are looking forward to our selections for next year.

 

If I have more questions, I know where to find ya'...

 

Robin

[Robin in DFW]

Lisa...I have the Leon Garfield Shakespeare collection. We might just use this for some of our future readings...if ds decides to read the real thing...awesome...if not...awesome!!!

 

Hope things are going well for you and your family.

 

Did you ever decide about your ds school choice for next year? PS or HS?

 

Just curious as I remember reading about your dilemma earlier this year.

 

Robin

[Halftime Hope]

Macbeth it is! We went to the Half Price Books as promised and picked two copies of the play. I got the version that has facing page "translations"...I guess that's what you call it! I also picked up a Sparks Notes guide...just in case. I will probably try to find a literature guide just so I have "professional" questions and lit terms to go over. I also got duplicates for all the other selections...I read when my ds reads so we have two copies of every book on our shelves.

 

I also offered ds a prose version of Odyssey instead of the verse and he said he'd rather try the verse...well whaddya know...I think he's actually looking forward to trying out some new things next year.

 

I recently gave my dh my "expenses" list for next year. I listed $75 for AOP SOS Spanish (it's on sale right now), $29.95 for Essay Architect, and $50 for literature...the bill for the Literature came to $49.64...can't get much closer!

 

Anyway, ya'lls help has been great and we are looking forward to our selections for next year.

 

If I have more questions, I know where to find ya'...

 

Robin

 

Just wanted to mention two of the free places I've found really helpful information for my own study of various authors are 1) the reources at Shmoop (online) for general things, not for specific, detailed, study guide-type questions, and 2) books by Harold Bloom at the library. Since you've allocated your budget.... :lol: