How do you tell "normal" bad behavior from "special" behavior?

[Dmmetler]

DD7 has, I've noticed, recently made some flat out statements which were not only potentially hurtful to another child, but were untrue-usually dealing with preferences. Things like "I HATE Hello Kitty" (when we have probably 12 of the little Mega blocks minifigs that she uses in her lego creations) when a child showed off the new toy she'd gotten for her birthday. Invariably, this happens in a mixed age group where she's one of the youngest.

 

My first thought (after calling DD over and letting her know this wasn't appropriate behavior), since DD is, while supposedly NOT over the borderline for ASD, basically the central casting version of Aspergers, was "Need to write social stories! Need to see if there's an IAP for that social skills app...we need to address this as a social skills training issue, stat!".

 

I mentioned it to one of my friends who has both an older child with aspergers and a NT child a couple of years older than DD, and her comment was "Oh, (her DD) does that too. She wants to look big in front of the older kids, so she forgets that her friends need support and have feelings. They ALL do that-and it's fine as soon as the big kid leaves!"

 

I honestly hadn't even thought of this as being a NORMAL, if annoying, 7 yr old girl behavior-or as a sign that she actually WAS reading the social cues in that she was able to tell that the child she was interested in impressing wasn't interested in the subject. I jumped straight to "quirky 2e kid has bad social skills".

 

How do you tell what is "borderline ASD" or "poor social skills" and what is "7 yr olds don't always have the best social skills yet?"

 

BTW-we're still going to address how to better handle such situations and practice things to say at home.

[Gingerbread Mama]

I think it *could* be "normal" behavior. I mean, all kids don't do it. But some, especially ones who have low self esteem, I could see exhibiting that behavior. I had terrible self esteem as a child. I can remember feeling jealous and wanting to "burst someone's bubble" when they were happy. I rarely felt happy, it made me sad that other people could feel happy. That sounds terrible, but it wasn't as malicious as it sounds. Mostly, it just made me feel worse about myself because I always saw them as happier/prettier/luckier/more whatever than I was and I then was in a crabby mood because I didn't think I'd ever be that way. My ODS tends to have that personality, as well. DD doesn't. She never has. She has her issues, but tearing others down isn't one of them. I've worked REALLY hard, as a mom, to not sulk or allow my kids to feel that way...but there's only so much you can do, really.

 

I'd be interested to know what others say to do about this. I don't remember feeling that way with everyone, but I remember a few friends that were closely matched for intelligence/creativity/socioeconomic status that I felt very competitive with. FWIW, if I was diagnosed with anything "special", I've never been told. Now I did test for high IQ as a child, but I don't know that that plays into it. ODS was tested mild/moderate ADHD as a young kid, and he's always been considered average IQ... the only thing that we seem to share is that we both have a hard time feeling good about ourselves. Oh, and I've pretty much outgrown it if that helps. I will still have a knee jerk "Isn't that nice for YOU?" reaction, on occasion, in my head...I just never voice it. Even when I'm not feeling particularly gracious or happy for someone else, I've learned to either fake it in the moment (I usually do feel happy for them later, once I've had time to process it) or say something vague "You must be so happy." Or "Oh, I'd love to be able to do that." and change the topic to a more comfortable one until I feel more reasonable about it.

[herekittykitty]

I totally hear you. I have a 7 yo boy who I think has Aspergers traits, but he did not meet criteria for a diagnosis. He does not do what you describe with your DD, but he does have poor eye contact and because of that he misses others' cues. Often at 1:1 playdates he is clueless if the other kid is bored. If he actually looks at the person he can very much read them though. He is just all over the place visually. He is also much more interested in things than people, and will gladly play alone if the other kids aren't doing what he wants to do. I ask myself a lot if this is a normal temperament thing, or Aspergers traits, or what. Then I realize, for me anyway, it doesn't really matter. He is who he is, and all of that stuff is on a great big continuum anyway.

 

In your case I think that behavior could be typical for a 7 yo. My first thought was that it might stem from insecurity or low self esteem. Maybe like she needs to devalue someone else to feel better about herself or more powerful. And if she could figure out that putting down "Hello Kitty" would be hurtful to the other child, then clearly she can read them somewhat IMO. My son has self esteem issues, but he puts himself down and not other kids. For some reason I tend to associate what you describe with being more typical for girls than boys.

Edited April 26, 2012 by herekittykitty

[Dmmetler]

I don't think it was so much that she was trying to put down the other child-it was that she was watching the older child who she was trying to impress for cues, saw that the older child was distainful, and played to that audience, while missing that what she was saying would hurt the other girl. We went through and play acted and talked quite a bit. She does so well 1-1 in social situations, has great eye contact, great reciprocal communication and so on (and I think that's why she missed the ASD label), but put her in a group and she really falters.

 

I do think she's struggling with self-esteem and feeling different. I found a great article that came over my facebook that we read together yesterday, and I'm trying to do a lot of bibliotherapy and discussion of book characters and handle it that way. We also do a lot of playing situations with her dolls and stuffed animals.

 

And I do think the relational aggression, putting someone else down to fit in stuff is worse with girls than with boys. DD has commented that boys are easier to play with because EVERYONE says what they mean-while with girls you have to figure out what they're really saying, and I remember having that same feeling in elementary and middle school, and feeling like a failure because, after all, I'm a girl!

 

I keep going back and forth on whether we should try for yet another evaluation or not-because my gut feeling is that there's more going on than "just" a high IQ and "developmental sensory issues"-but I also don't know that it would do anything, since she's unlikely to qualify for services through the schools as long as she's homeschooled (and even if I sent her back to PS, she tests extremely well on standardized tests) and our insurance stinks!

[onaclairadeluna]

http://mcgt.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/%CB%86x-Giftedness-Asp.Dis_.Checklist.pdf

 

You can try this checklist. They say that if you get most checks in the GT column than giftedness interventions are more appropriate, if it's equally balanced then you should get an evaluation and pursue both gt and aspie interventions.

 

I am sure that my sons giftedness has caused MORE problems for him than his learning disability. So it's not like you're off the hook and it will be smooth sailing if these issues are caused by her GT side?

 

Have you looked at SENG?

 

http://www.sengifted.org/resources/resource-library