I don't want to post this on HOD ..

[Abbeygurl4]

I know they will say my dd is too young, so I'm asking here instead.

 

I think my SL plans aren't going to happen in light of issues I have with them. I've looked at HOD again and am thinking about doing Res to Ref with my 9 yo dd and 13 yo ds. I would use FLL and WWS with my dc and not HOD's LA. I feel my dd could easily read all of the books and I would probably do some of the "I" boxes with her. I don't want to do CtC with her because I can NOT do that history period again. We've done ancients TOO many times and we hate those dinosaur books. I did about 10 weeks of Preparing with her and it was just too easy. Also, I cannot do 2 guides, I tried and I can't.

 

Any reasons I should consider for NOT using Res. to Ref with my 9 yo dd?

[Heart_Mom]

I know they will say my dd is too young, so I'm asking here instead.

 

I think my SL plans aren't going to happen in light of issues I have with them. I've looked at HOD again and am thinking about doing Res to Ref with my 9 yo dd and 13 yo ds. I would use FLL and WWS with my dc and not HOD's LA. I feel my dd could easily read all of the books and I would probably do some of the "I" boxes with her. I don't want to do CtC with her because I can NOT do that history period again. We've done ancients TOO many times and we hate those dinosaur books. I did about 10 weeks of Preparing with her and it was just too easy. Also, I cannot do 2 guides, I tried and I can't.

 

Any reasons I should consider for NOT using Res. to Ref with my 9 yo dd?

 

I've only been using HOD for 2 years and the highest level guide I've used is Bigger, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt! :001_smile:

 

I think that it would not be a good fit if you are wanting to use HOD as the author intends. If you are willing to really tweak it, then it may be fine. Also, you may want to think about whether or not your planning to continue with HOD, or just use it for this year. It could get progressively harder for her to keep up as time goes by.

 

I hear you on not doing more than one program. I'm seriously considering getting back to one history and science for my children. I love the togetherness and cohesiveness that fosters!

 

HTH!

 

:001_smile:

[Donna A.]

I know they will say my dd is too young, so I'm asking here instead.

 

I think my SL plans aren't going to happen in light of issues I have with them. I've looked at HOD again and am thinking about doing Res to Ref with my 9 yo dd and 13 yo ds. I would use FLL and WWS with my dc and not HOD's LA. I feel my dd could easily read all of the books and I would probably do some of the "I" boxes with her. I don't want to do CtC with her because I can NOT do that history period again. We've done ancients TOO many times and we hate those dinosaur books. I did about 10 weeks of Preparing with her and it was just too easy. Also, I cannot do 2 guides, I tried and I can't.

 

Any reasons I should consider for NOT using Res. to Ref with my 9 yo dd?

 

I see MFW RTR in your siggy. Are you going to do the same time period over again next year? Or did you mean RevToRev next year? You also mentioned CTC in your post, so I'm confused..... If you're doing MFW RTR now, you'd be going backwards.....

[Abbeygurl4]

I see MFW RTR in your siggy. Are you going to do the same time period over again next year? Or did you mean RevToRev next year? You also mentioned CTC in your post, so I'm confused..... If you're doing MFW RTR now, you'd be going backwards.....

 

 

We've only done 6 weeks of MFW RtR. The whole book basket thing isn't working for me and I'm finding most of the readings too easy for my ds. We haven't done much medieval history so HOD's Res to Ref is what I was looking at. I'd like to do HOD's RevtoRev, but I think it would be too difficult for my dd. Does that make any sense?

[hopeallgoeswell]

We (in my co-op with a wide age range) have done all of the history portions for Bigger, are almost finished with Preparing, and have CtC to begin in August.

 

I think you could do it as long as you know what you're in for...which you do. The writing will have to be adjusted and you (or your older dc) may have to do some of the "I" work with her. You could just do MOH or something similar if HOD history is the only thing you will be using. I tweak the history portion because my oldest uses other things in the guides, so it is worth it for me.

 

Wishing you a great year with what ever you choose!

[kristin0713]

We are only in LHFHG and I've looked at Beyond but not the guides above that, only have read about them on the site and on the HOD board. So, like a PP said, take my advice for what you will.

 

I think it would just be important to consult the younger guide for the skills and make sure she is progressing at the right pace. Narration, dictation, memorization, copywork, etc., and the way the guides gradually move them to independence. As far as content, I don't see why you can't keep that the same, but tweak the activities. I have read great things about the notebooking in the later guides, but, again, we haven't done that yet. Res to Ref does say 10-12 so that isn't so far off from your 9yo if she is more mature and advanced.

[Abbeygurl4]

I've only been using HOD for 2 years and the highest level guide I've used is Bigger, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt! :001_smile:

 

I think that it would not be a good fit if you are wanting to use HOD as the author intends. If you are willing to really tweak it, then it may be fine. Also, you may want to think about whether or not your planning to continue with HOD, or just use it for this year. It could get progressively harder for her to keep up as time goes by.

 

I hear you on not doing more than one program. I'm seriously considering getting back to one history and science for my children. I love the togetherness and cohesiveness that fosters!

 

HTH!

 

:001_smile:

 

This is probably the last year my two will be together. I'm trying to get my ds to become more independent so he can branch off into a high school program. I'm just trying to figure out what to do until ds reaches that point. It's hard combining them because of the 4 year age difference. Although my dd is fairly close to ds in her LA skills.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I know they will say my dd is too young, so I'm asking here instead.

 

I think my SL plans aren't going to happen in light of issues I have with them. I've looked at HOD again and am thinking about doing Res to Ref with my 9 yo dd and 13 yo ds. I would use FLL and WWS with my dc and not HOD's LA. I feel my dd could easily read all of the books and I would probably do some of the "I" boxes with her. I don't want to do CtC with her because I can NOT do that history period again. We've done ancients TOO many times and we hate those dinosaur books. I did about 10 weeks of Preparing with her and it was just too easy. Also, I cannot do 2 guides, I tried and I can't.

 

Any reasons I should consider for NOT using Res. to Ref with my 9 yo dd?

I don't think it would be a problem especially if you are doing your own language arts. I honestly don't think you would have to alter it or tweak it that much if your dd has strong language arts and writing skills. The only way I would say not to consider it is if your dd was not writing longer assignments well. I think as long as your dd can write a 5-8 sentence summary that you aren't going to have issues.

[Donna A.]

We've only done 6 weeks of MFW RtR. The whole book basket thing isn't working for me and I'm finding most of the readings too easy for my ds. We haven't done much medieval history so HOD's Res to Ref is what I was looking at. I'd like to do HOD's RevtoRev, but I think it would be too difficult for my dd. Does that make any sense?

 

Yes, that makes sense. So if you're only in week 6 of MFW RTR, you haven't got out of the Ancients yet. :tongue_smilie: But in another 7 weeks or so, you'll be there.

 

Is your son doing the readings by himself, or are you doing them all together as read-alouds and family discussion? I remember my girls complained about Augustus Caesar's World all the way through it, and yet both of them rave in hindsight about how much they learned.

 

How much is your son doing from Streams? Is he doing the Advanced assignments scheduled in MFW? How about some of the G.A. Henty books... is he reading those? (They're listed in Book Basket.) If you don't have a good library, maybe you could purchase some of those for him? How about research, biographies.... Do you have the Famous Men book that Marie recommends? You can purchase the titles that Marie has asterisked in Book Basket if you'd rather just own your own books instead of using the library. Or perhaps you could even buy some of the books you like from HOD to use in lieu of MFW's Book Basket. ;)

 

Realize that even if you switch to HOD RTR right now, you'd still have to skip ahead some to get to the medieval period because HOD RTR begins with the Resurrection..... you've still got all of Ancient Rome to go through there, too. ;) So unless it's a case of just liking the layout of HOD manuals better, or something more specific about HOD than the time period (they're almost identical) or MFW's Book Basket (which can be easily remedied), I'd suggest you just stay the course right where you are. Find solutions to help you get through the Ancient Rome period (I know we were dying to get to the Middle Ages, too!) rather than trading apples for apples.

 

(If it's any consolation, the Ancient Rome period is a common complaint about MFW RTR. Try to look on these several weeks from a biblical perspective, that is, the "setup" for the changes in the world that are yet to come. The Middle Ages/Crusades and Reformation eras couldn't have happened with the Ancient Rome era, after all. :D )

 

And lastly, are you doing the Bible readings in MFW RTR? There are "Advanced" assignments there, too, so your 12yo son should be reading more than your 8yo daughter is. We read the assigned passages for everyone, and then oldest dd read the "advanced" assignments and we'd discuss them later.

 

BUT, if after all that you decide you still want to move on to something else.... There are a lot of different things to consider when placing into HOD, and even if your son is a strong reader, he might find some of the other assignments in HOD to be too tedious. I don't know, maybe he is ready, but also consider his attention span, his ability to work independently, his composition and research skills.... I wish HOD had more than Week 1 sample lessons on the website. Before you ditch MFW altogether, you might want to see if you can find a used HOD manual to look through first to compare your son's workload. And honestly, there's more age-appropriate work for both your children in MFW RTR. It's very easy to beef up the reading in MFW for an advanced student if that's the main problem. And as I said before, there are a lot of ways to remedy the Book Basket situation, too. Depends (partly) on how badly you want to keep them together.

 

Another thought is to beef up your son's literature study separately from the History and Bible in MFW. They recommend Progeny Press. Have you seen those? They're VERY meaty. Or you could choose something else if you don't like PP. Or just give him a lot of extra books to read from another booklist such as Ambleside. Give him more research, composition, and notebooking assignments. Remember that he doesn't have know *everything* at this age... try and pinpoint exactly what the problem is and go from there. He'll get the history again at much deeper level in four years. ;)

[Donna A.]

This is probably the last year my two will be together. I'm trying to get my ds to become more independent so he can branch off into a high school program. I'm just trying to figure out what to do until ds reaches that point. It's hard combining them because of the 4 year age difference. Although my dd is fairly close to ds in her LA skills.

 

I'm not sure what you're planning for high school, but whether it's HOD or MFW, both of those programs have the student working independently at that level. Even as a MFW student, your son should already be working toward independence in math and science, and possibly language arts and other subjects, as well. (And don't forget about learning responsibility through chores and obedience!)

 

What's he doing for LA right now?

[lovetobehome]

I'm using it now with my just turned 12yo DD.

FWIW, I had decided to combine them into Rev to Rev for next year. I love the concept of giving each kid their own level guide, but in reality, well, I am looking to simplify.

I think you can do it, just tweak as needed, and be ready to read to her.

[Abbeygurl4]

Yes, that makes sense. So if you're only in week 6 of MFW RTR, you haven't got out of the Ancients yet. :tongue_smilie: But in another 7 weeks or so, you'll be there.

 

Is your son doing the readings by himself, or are you doing them all together as read-alouds and family discussion? I remember my girls complained about Augustus Caesar's World all the way through it, and yet both of them rave in hindsight about how much they learned.

 

I make my son read aloud from Augustus Caesar. He is MUCH better at oral reading than I am. Also, he read it on his own last year.

 

How much is your son doing from Streams? Is he doing the Advanced assignments scheduled in MFW? How about some of the G.A. Henty books... is he reading those? (They're listed in Book Basket.) If you don't have a good library, maybe you could purchase some of those for him? How about research, biographies.... Do you have the Famous Men book that Marie recommends? You can purchase the titles that Marie has asterisked in Book Basket if you'd rather just own your own books instead of using the library. Or perhaps you could even buy some of the books you like from HOD to use in lieu of MFW's Book Basket. ;)

 

Yes, he is reading Streams and doing *some* of the advanced assignments. We own Famous Men of Rome, which he reads from. Book Basket is a big problem for me. Our library rarely has the books I need, but I'd really rather own the books. Making all those book choices is a killer for me and I'd prefer to have them actually scheduled. I need it already written in a schedule that pgs 1-XX need to be read on this day.

 

Realize that even if you switch to HOD RTR right now, you'd still have to skip ahead some to get to the medieval period because HOD RTR begins with the Resurrection..... you've still got all of Ancient Rome to go through there, too. ;) So unless it's a case of just liking the layout of HOD manuals better, or something more specific about HOD than the time period (they're almost identical) or MFW's Book Basket (which can be easily remedied), I'd suggest you just stay the course right where you are. Find solutions to help you get through the Ancient Rome period (I know we were dying to get to the Middle Ages, too!) rather than trading apples for apples.

 

(If it's any consolation, the Ancient Rome period is a common complaint about MFW RTR. Try to look on these several weeks from a biblical perspective, that is, the "setup" for the changes in the world that are yet to come. The Middle Ages/Crusades and Reformation eras couldn't have happened with the Ancient Rome era, after all. :D )

 

And lastly, are you doing the Bible readings in MFW RTR? There are "Advanced" assignments there, too, so your 12yo son should be reading more than your 8yo daughter is. We read the assigned passages for everyone, and then oldest dd read the "advanced" assignments and we'd discuss them later.

 

No, I haven't been having him do the advanced bible assignments. I'll have to reread that in the guide.

BUT, if after all that you decide you still want to move on to something else.... There are a lot of different things to consider when placing into HOD, and even if your son is a strong reader, he might find some of the other assignments in HOD to be too tedious. I don't know, maybe he is ready, but also consider his attention span, his ability to work independently, his composition and research skills.... I wish HOD had more than Week 1 sample lessons on the website. Before you ditch MFW altogether, you might want to see if you can find a used HOD manual to look through first to compare your son's workload. And honestly, there's more age-appropriate work for both your children in MFW RTR. It's very easy to beef up the reading in MFW for an advanced student if that's the main problem. And as I said before, there are a lot of ways to remedy the Book Basket situation, too. Depends (partly) on how badly you want to keep them together.

 

Another thought is to beef up your son's literature study separately from the History and Bible in MFW. They recommend Progeny Press. Have you seen those? They're VERY meaty. Or you could choose something else if you don't like PP. Or just give him a lot of extra books to read from another booklist such as Ambleside. Give him more research, composition, and notebooking assignments. Remember that he doesn't have know *everything* at this age... try and pinpoint exactly what the problem is and go from there. He'll get the history again at much deeper level in four years. ;)

 

You've been SO helpful and given me a lot to consider! Wow! Thank you! I need to think about some of the things you've said and figure out why exactly I'm thinking about jumping ship. I think the biggest reasons are the book basket and not wanting to constantly make choices and find the books and when I used HOD's CTC my ds did well with the layout of the guide. I made copies of the weekly pages and gave them to him with the boxes highlighted for the things he needed to do on his own. We ended up ditching HOD because ds wasn't ready for the writing assignments and CtC was waaay too heavy of bible history for him. Also, I learned that I am no where near capable of doing two guides.

 

I'd put him in a high school program if it weren't for his lack of writing skills. He's more than capable of reading, comprehending and discussing high school level books, but writing a decent paper on those books is another thing. I'm using Easy Grammar Plus and Writing With Skill with him trying to get up to speed. Argghhhh Too many decisions!

Edited March 16, 2012 by Abbeygurl4

[Abbeygurl4]

I'm not sure what you're planning for high school, but whether it's HOD or MFW, both of those programs have the student working independently at that level. Even as a MFW student, your son should already be working toward independence in math and science, and possibly language arts and other subjects, as well. (And don't forget about learning responsibility through chores and obedience!)

 

What's he doing for LA right now?

 

He is doing Saxon 8/7 on his own and Apologia General Science on his own. LA is the only place he is lagging behind. His vocabulary is well beyond his years and he could talk your leg off. But, teaching him to write it down will be the end of me. :001_rolleyes:

[birchbark]

Realize that even if you switch to HOD RTR right now, you'd still have to skip ahead some to get to the medieval period because HOD RTR begins with the Resurrection..... you've still got all of Ancient Rome to go through there, too. ;)

 

Actually, most of Ancient Rome is covered in CTC. The first four weeks of RTR are on the early Church and the fall of Rome. Then it goes into Medievals.

 

RTR will be tough for a 9yo, but you could prob make it work with constant tweaking (due to the assignments that come with every reading)! Give it a try; you have little to lose since you'd only need to purchase one program. (And extra notebook pages.)

[Donna A.]

He is doing Saxon 8/7 on his own and Apologia General Science on his own. LA is the only place he is lagging behind. His vocabulary is well beyond his years and he could talk your leg off. But, teaching him to write it down will be the end of me. :001_rolleyes:

 

If he's lagging behind in LA, then he's definitely not ready for high school work yet, and probably not ready for that aspect of HOD RTR, either. Thus, you'd still have to use something separate for LA even if you switch to HOD.

 

It sounds like you really want to use HOD, but your children's skill levels just aren't panning out to fit in the guide where they are in history. This is the same problem I ran into when I tried HOD CTC with my middle girl. Very frustrating. HOD is a beautiful program, but when everything doesn't line up neatly on the placement chart, it can be a problem. Thus, I think you'd have to pick a separate guide for each of them for history, but even if you combine them in history, you'll still need additional guides to get them at the right level for LA skills. Either that or just keep your LA assignments completely separate.... which you're already doing in MFW. (Is your son doing the copywork, dictation, narrations, and memory work in MFW?)

 

So if you switch, you have to figure out what to do about their LA skills. The LA work in HOD can be very tedious, especially if they're not quite *there*.

 

He is MUCH better at oral reading than I am. Also, he read it on his own last year.

So this is his second time reading through that book within a year? No wonder he's bored with it. :lol:

 

Anyway, all that said, and based on your responses in your last two posts, here's what I'd recommend:

 

Stay the course with MFW -- for now. Focus on your son's writing and LA skills, maybe some additional lit study guides.... Get him up to speed there and let history be "easy" for a little while. Make sure he's doing well in math and science. Re-read Marie's notes on Bible for older/advanced students.

 

Spend a little time browsing the Archives and Ideas forums for RTR and see what you can glean from them:

 

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewforum.php?f=27

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewforum.php?f=12

 

Also read some of the posts on LA to see if you can find anything helpful there -- especially for Writing down in the last 1/3 of the index. http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewforum.php?f=19

 

Call the MFW office for any additional helps.

 

Reconsider HOD again for high school, and/or for your daughter when brother hits high school. That's only a year and a half away. ;)

[Donna A.]

I'd put him in a high school program if it weren't for his lack of writing skills. He's more than capable of reading, comprehending and discussing high school level books, but writing a decent paper on those books is another thing. I'm using Easy Grammar Plus and Writing With Skill with him trying to get up to speed. Argghhhh Too many decisions!

 

It might be helpful to know where his skills need to be in preparation for MFW high school.... because even if you decide not to use MFW for high school, he'd still need many of the same approximate skills regardless. Read the following.... your son may not be as far as "behind" as you think. At least this gives you something to shoot for.

 

"Our high school curriculum covers all needed language arts; no other supplementation is required. However, if an incoming student has not had formal grammar instruction, he should complete Applications of Grammar. If a student is weak in composition skills, he should complete Writing Strands Level 4. "

 

Now go to the Scope & Sequence (or Table of Contents) for each of those programs so you can see what he needs to be able to do.

 

Applications of Grammar: http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product_slideshow?sku=0109190&actual_sku=0109190&slide=1

 

Writing Strands S&S: http://www.writing-strands.com/curriculum.asp

[Abbeygurl4]

If he's lagging behind in LA, then he's definitely not ready for high school work yet, and probably not ready for that aspect of HOD RTR, either. Thus, you'd still have to use something separate for LA even if you switch to HOD.

 

It sounds like you really want to use HOD, but your children's skill levels just aren't panning out to fit in the guide where they are in history. This is the same problem I ran into when I tried HOD CTC with my middle girl. Very frustrating. HOD is a beautiful program, but when everything doesn't line up neatly on the placement chart, it can be a problem. Thus, I think you'd have to pick a separate guide for each of them for history, but even if you combine them in history, you'll still need additional guides to get them at the right level for LA skills. Either that or just keep your LA assignments completely separate.... which you're already doing in MFW. (Is your son doing the copywork, dictation, narrations, and memory work in MFW?)

 

So if you switch, you have to figure out what to do about their LA skills. The LA work in HOD can be very tedious, especially if they're not quite *there*.

 

So this is his second time reading through that book within a year? No wonder he's bored with it. :lol:

 

Anyway, all that said, and based on your responses in your last two posts, here's what I'd recommend:

 

Stay the course with MFW -- for now. Focus on your son's writing and LA skills, maybe some additional lit study guides.... Get him up to speed there and let history be "easy" for a little while. Make sure he's doing well in math and science. Re-read Marie's notes on Bible for older/advanced students.

 

Spend a little time browsing the Archives and Ideas forums for RTR and see what you can glean from them:

 

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewforum.php?f=27

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewforum.php?f=12

 

Also read some of the posts on LA to see if you can find anything helpful there -- especially for Writing down in the last 1/3 of the index. http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewforum.php?f=19

 

Call the MFW office for any additional helps.

 

Reconsider HOD again for high school, and/or for your daughter when brother hits high school. That's only a year and a half away. ;)

 

I think you are right; we need to stay the course with MFW. I'm going back over the notes in the manual and will pull together some books for the book basket. I've got a Progeny Press guide that I haven't added in yet, which I will do.

 

I have a Book Basket question for you. Are we supposed to discuss the books or do they just read them and that's it?

[Donna A.]

I have a Book Basket question for you. Are we supposed to discuss the books or do they just read them and that's it?

 

For Book Basket, that's a "free reading" time from material that's related to the topic you're studying that week. I've done different things with it, including:

 

-- Pick a book for a child who needs reading practice to read aloud to me.

 

-- I read aloud to all the children for fun and discussion.

 

-- They pick whatever they want and read silently. Sometimes they'll tell me about it later, and sometimes not... just depends. Sometimes I ask and sometimes I don't.

 

-- Sometimes they would just lie on the floor and browse the books for 10 or 20 minutes.

 

-- With my oldest (and sometimes the two oldest, depending), I would occasionally choose a handful of non-fiction and/or reference material with beautiful artwork/pictures, facts, extra detail, etc. relating to the topic we're studying.... Then lay them out on the table and have the older(s) go through all the books, find something interesting that they didn't already know, and create a notebook page for it. That could be done in whatever format they wanted -- an illustration, a tracing of a picture from a book (w/caption), a written narration, a poster, an outline of facts, more research -- they could be as creative (or not) as they wanted. Completely personal. I would usually only do this during a week when there wasn't a lot of other hands-on work to do. (Or we if had lots of extra time that week.)

 

Book Basket is very flexible. Use as many or as few books as you have time and interest for, and schedule them in a way that works for your family. You can leave it as "just browsing", each to their own, or you can pick a few titles and schedule them out as "assignments". Sometimes you'll have a child who's more interested in a particular topic than the other child. That's okay. Everybody's different. :)

 

Notice on the weekly grid that in addition to both Book Basket and the scheduled chapter book read-aloud, there's also a place called "Reading". This is where you do a separate Reading or Lit Study curriculum (if you're using one), or something along those lines. I think Marie talks about it at the front of the manual.