Mandylubug Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Soooo I am considering other curricula again. Especially after realizing we started MM1a in August and have yet to finish chapter one. When asking the girls questions from the chapter 1 test; they couldn't answer ONE correctly and these were to be mental answers... so, I am not throwing in the towel yet but I am considering CLE or R&S mainly due to the lessons outlined in the TM's. I like how they tell you what to say and how to demonstrate the lesson prior to completing a worksheet. Perhaps, if I can get the girls to understand math a bit better; then they will do better with MM's style of learning. Obviously, something here isn't working. What attracts me to CLE is I can try out a unit or two without putting too much money into it. However, R&S isn't that expensive. My questions are have you used both and what did you like better about one or the other? Is there any reason to NOT buy the units individually and what is the common amount of time it takes to go through one lightunit if taught as instructed in the teachers guide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaHappy Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I have used both and in the end, I decided to go with Rod & Staff. But CLE is a *very* close second, I really liked it too! CLE is spiral and has a more variety of problems each day. The TM is great and sooo easy to teach. I always say you can be half brain-dead and still teach CLE Math, lol. :) But I prefer a mastery approach and I like the way Rod & Staff teaches math facts better. My ds wasn't really retaining math facts with CLE, but he definitely is with R&S. R&S really focuses on the basics in the early years and saves the algebra and geomety concepts for later. I agree with this philosphy. Some people feel Rod & Staff moves too slow in the early years, and I can see how people would think that. But it provides such a wonderful foundation and I think that's important. And the TM's in Rod & Staff are great too!! One thing I don't like about R&S is that once you hit grade 3, there are no workbooks and students must write out answers on a separate piece of paper. So far my ds is doing fine with it, but I've seem many, many complaints aobut this. But the flip side is it makes R&S very affordable with not having to purchase new workbooks every year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 I have used both and in the end, I decided to go with Rod & Staff. But CLE is a *very* close second, I really liked it too! CLE is spiral and has a more variety of problems each day. The TM is great and sooo easy to teach. I always say you can be half brain-dead and still teach CLE Math, lol. :) But I prefer a mastery approach and I like the way Rod & Staff teaches math facts better. My ds wasn't really retaining math facts with CLE, but he definitely is with R&S. R&S really focuses on the basics in the early years and saves the algebra and geomety concepts for later. I agree with this philosphy. Some people feel Rod & Staff moves too slow in the early years, and I can see how people would think that. But it provides such a wonderful foundation and I think that's important. And the TM's in Rod & Staff are great too!! One thing I don't like about R&S is that once you hit grade 3, there are no workbooks and students must write out answers on a separate piece of paper. So far my ds is doing fine with it, but I've seem many, many complaints aobut this. But the flip side is it makes R&S very affordable with not having to purchase new workbooks every year! thank you for your input! I have looked at the TG with R&S as well. I think a slower pace may be best for my gals. Hoping that they will use TT3 when the time comes; since we have it already and works for my non mathy sons currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleBears Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I also love R&S. My ds need a spiral(incremental) approach. It was just more suited to his particular style. Also, he had issue with writing out all the problem. It really detracted from his focusing on the math itself, so we chose CLE because of the worktexts. He has gone from complete frustration to really understanding math. I has been a true blessing in this household. My youngest will be doing R&S for 1st grade next year, so I guess we love and use both. :001_smile: I would say it take a little less than a month to do one worktext. We skip the "just for fun" sections and the quizes to stay on a 4 day a week schedule. Placement is really important so if you go with it, your dc should take the free placement test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Another semi related question. The only way my girls can get a correct math problem at the moment is by using manipulatives such as beans to "build the problem" and solve. Knowing that the only way they understand math at the moment is through visual/tactile aid; would you recommend one over the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 We have started CLE math very recently, and so far we like it. My DS needed something a bit spiral. We do like the CLE because of the worktext approach, it works better for him as well. I've heard both programs are very good, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 We have started CLE math very recently, and so far we like it. My DS needed something a bit spiral. We do like the CLE because of the worktext approach, it works better for him as well. I've heard both programs are very good, though. so, what makes you decide "my child does better with a spiral vs mastery" curriculum? I am seriously asking out of curiosity. My older boys are working through TT3 and I do believe it is spiral and they seem to be doing good with it.. but I have never thought to decide if they need spiral or not?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaHappy Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 so, what makes you decide "my child does better with a spiral vs mastery" curriculum? I am seriously asking out of curiosity. My older boys are working through TT3 and I do believe it is spiral and they seem to be doing good with it.. but I have never thought to decide if they need spiral or not?! I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I just wanted to say that a mastery approach is *my* preference. My kids probably couldn't care less, lol. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It's been some trial and error here. :) Honestly, we'd probably both *prefer* a mastery approach, but for him, he gets concepts very easily, but falters on them when he doesn't have fairly regular review. The CLE is helpful because it not only reviews, but builds in speed drills of all different operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It's been some trial and error here. :) Honestly, we'd probably both *prefer* a mastery approach, but for him, he gets concepts very easily, but falters on them when he doesn't have fairly regular review. The CLE is helpful because it not only reviews, but builds in speed drills of all different operations. I know CLE is spiral. But am I remembering correctly that R&S is mastery but has plenty of review in each chapter as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I have used both and in the end, I decided to go with Rod & Staff. But CLE is a *very* close second, I really liked it too! CLE is spiral and has a more variety of problems each day. The TM is great and sooo easy to teach. I always say you can be half brain-dead and still teach CLE Math, lol. :) But I prefer a mastery approach and I like the way Rod & Staff teaches math facts better. My ds wasn't really retaining math facts with CLE, but he definitely is with R&S. R&S really focuses on the basics in the early years and saves the algebra and geomety concepts for later. I agree with this philosphy. Some people feel Rod & Staff moves too slow in the early years, and I can see how people would think that. But it provides such a wonderful foundation and I think that's important. And the TM's in Rod & Staff are great too!! One thing I don't like about R&S is that once you hit grade 3, there are no workbooks and students must write out answers on a separate piece of paper. So far my ds is doing fine with it, but I've seem many, many complaints aobut this. But the flip side is it makes R&S very affordable with not having to purchase new workbooks every year! :iagree: My son really struggled with math when he was a little guy and after trying a number of programs, we finally landed on R&S. At the time, it was a huge relief because it was just right for him. He completed levels 1 - 5 and part of 6. At that point, I felt his skills were solid enough and that R&S was going to be so repetitive from that point on that I wanted to give CLE a try, so I switched him to CLE 5 and he's done really well with it. Some things that were better for my son with R&S in the early years: the slow pace, the repetition, the oral review from the teacher's guide. I feel the oral part of the lessons was very important for him to really grasp what he was doing and still kind of miss that now that we're doing CLE. I still sometimes pick up R&S 6 and do some of the oral drill with him. If our schedule wasn't so overloaded, I would continue with that on a daily basis. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleBears Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Another semi related question. The only way my girls can get a correct math problem at the moment is by using manipulatives such as beans to "build the problem" and solve. Knowing that the only way they understand math at the moment is through visual/tactile aid; would you recommend one over the other? Manipulatives are great. I let my dc use them until they no longer "need" them to do the problem. This does eventually happen. I suspect it is a developmental thing. We use cusinaire rods and some of the bonding and building ideas from Singapore and Miquon math. This paired with flashcards seems to work really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 we switched from R&S to CLE when my daughter was in grade 2. i like both curriculum, but definitely prefer CLE. the scope and sequence for the two are very different, so when we switched, we had to start the entire grade 2 over in math. CLE was covering concepts that we hadn't even touched upon in R&S (they are taught i believe, just not in the same year). my daughter much prefers CLE too. this is her 3rd year with it now. she is learning and retaining. having said that, i'm sure either curriculum is excellent. imo, the most important thing is to choose a curriculum and stick with. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 You can use counters such as beans or Legos with any curriculum. :) My little girls are both using R&S math currently. Their favorite part is when we go over the class time in the TM. Then they dig into their worksheet, which seems like old hat by then. The oral work we do together does let me catch misunderstandings before they can become habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Well, I went ahead and ordered the 1st grade set from R&S plus extra workbooks for the other. I plan to copy the drill pages from the set to save a dime. It was such a close decision and one that I made soley on the fact that CLE was spiral and we have been using MM that is spiral and it isn't working in this situation.... so perhaps mastery is best for my gals. Anyone know how long it typically takes R&S to ship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It was such a close decision and one that I made soley on the fact that CLE was spiral and we have been using MM that is spiral and it isn't working in this situation.... so perhaps mastery is best for my gals. Math Mammoth is mastery, not spiral. It's technically â€soft spiralâ€, which means certain topics are revisited every year (usually with bigger numbers). Definitely not spiral like CLE though. MM focuses on one topic at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Math Mammoth is mastery, not spiral. It's technically â€soft spiralâ€, which means certain topics are revisited every year (usually with bigger numbers). Definitely not spiral like CLE though. MM focuses on one topic at a time. ah, thanks for the clarification. I have grades 1-3 for MM and hope to return to it. Perhaps a mixture of the two? Gotta get the lightbulb to turn on for these gals though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Wanted to mention as well, for anyone who needs to order anything from R&S; they are 10% off at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 so, what makes you decide "my child does better with a spiral vs mastery" curriculum? I am seriously asking out of curiosity. My older boys are working through TT3 and I do believe it is spiral and they seem to be doing good with it.. but I have never thought to decide if they need spiral or not?! For us I began to use the spiral approach when the mastery method wasn't working. For instance like in your experience: If we did a full chapter of something and they did not understand it ,then it was time for the spiral approach. If I had a child in tears telling me she was dumb, and didn't understand math, and she was stupid. It was time for a spiral math program. If my child had that glazed over look like you just spoke Swahili to them, then it was time for a spiral approach. Those are just some examples. I know some people have a preference on the program but that's from my experience. We started out using a mastery math program , BJU , with my oldest which worked really well for her. It made sense to her. Then along came my 2nd daughter and I experienced everything I mentioned. She had that glazed look in her eyes. When I took out her math the tears began to flow and she started to tell me that she was stupid in math and didn't understand it. Especially when she had that look like her head was going to explode if you put one more idea into her head on how to add 2+2. It was time to change the approach. For us I prefer CLE , because it is spiral. Because its in workbook form for all levels. The teacher manual is extremely helpful to have but not a must. My younger three ' get math' and I like the program. I wished I had known about it a long time ago. I did use Rod and Staff for LA and Spelling. But the format is pretty much the same. Its mastery, with some review thrown in. Its in workbook form for grades 1 and 2. After those two levels then you switched to a hard textbook that the child must copy out of. Some children can do this at 3rd grade , some don't. Just depends on what you want. Rod and Staff doesn't add in those algebraic concepts in early like CLE does. Rod and STaff math goes to 8th grade after that you have to switch to something else. CLE has math for grades 1-12th grade. Their sunrise edition only currently goes to Algebra 1 at the moment but will eventually get to Geometry then will stop. Rod and Staff's manual is helpful as well, so its a tie there. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for, and how your children learn best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotsofpumpkins Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Well, I went ahead and ordered the 1st grade set from R&S plus extra workbooks for the other. I plan to copy the drill pages from the set to save a dime. It was such a close decision and one that I made soley on the fact that CLE was spiral and we have been using MM that is spiral and it isn't working in this situation.... so perhaps mastery is best for my gals. Anyone know how long it typically takes R&S to ship? Did you order from the publisher or from www.rodandstaffbooks.com? If you ordered from the latter, they ship very quickly, but if you chose media mail, it could take a while depending on where you live. I don't remember how quickly the publisher ships since it's been a while since I ordered from them. I have placed 3 orders from R&S Books in the last several weeks, and all 3 times they have shipped the next business day (orders placed in the evening). Priority mail took 3 days, and media mail took 7-12 days; I'm across the country from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Did you order from the publisher or from www.rodandstaffbooks.com? If you ordered from the latter, they ship very quickly, but if you chose media mail, it could take a while depending on where you live. I don't remember how quickly the publisher ships since it's been a while since I ordered from them. I have placed 3 orders from R&S Books in the last several weeks, and all 3 times they have shipped the next business day (orders placed in the evening). Priority mail took 3 days, and media mail took 7-12 days; I'm across the country from them. I ordered from www.rodandstaffbooks.com. I chose standard usps I believe? Shipping was aprox. 7.95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotsofpumpkins Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) I ordered from www.rodandstaffbooks.com. I chose standard usps I believe? Shipping was aprox. 7.95 I think that's media mail (though maybe that's actually a flat-rate priority envelope rate?). I think they'll probably ship Monday. If it's priority you'll have it in a few days. If it's media, I'd expect it to take a week. That's how long orders of that size take to get to me in FL. My latest order is really big though, and it's looking like it'll be 12 days before it gets here. Edited March 10, 2012 by lotsofpumpkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 I think that's media mail (though maybe that's actually a flat-rate priority envelope rate?). I think they'll probably ship Monday. If it's priority you'll have it in a few days. If it's media, I'd expect it to take a week. That's how long orders of that size take to get to me in FL. My latest order is really big though, and it's looking like it'll be 12 days before it gets here. yeah, I am sure it will take it a good week to get here. I have another shipment expected from HWOT... so we will have box days coming up :) Those are the best days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie in MS Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Another semi related question. The only way my girls can get a correct math problem at the moment is by using manipulatives such as beans to "build the problem" and solve. Knowing that the only way they understand math at the moment is through visual/tactile aid; would you recommend one over the other? Then you should do well with R&S class time lessons. They used to have a duck theme and you either made a bunch of felt ducks or bought some little plastic duckies (beans or anything would work). Now the theme has changed and they suggest cutting out red square blocks to represent people (like the 8 that went into the ark). You could use plastic people, buttons, anything really. But the class time lessons instruct you in the use of manipulatives to teach the concept. In year 2 there are bees, blossoms and boats if you want the hands on portion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Then you should do well with R&S class time lessons. They used to have a duck theme and you either made a bunch of felt ducks or bought some little plastic duckies (beans or anything would work). Now the theme has changed and they suggest cutting out red square blocks to represent people (like the 8 that went into the ark). You could use plastic people, buttons, anything really. But the class time lessons instruct you in the use of manipulatives to teach the concept. In year 2 there are bees, blossoms and boats if you want the hands on portion. so great to hear! thank you! ETA: I know I can add and teach with manipulatives with any program but it is/will be soooo nice to have it scripted teaching me how to teach with manipulatives if that makes sense ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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