Stacia Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 I'm curious after seeing your mention of Touchstones Discussion Project &/or Matthew Lipman's Philosophy for Children series... Have you used these? What are they exactly? Are there samples somewhere I can view? (I haven't found any yet & wonder if I'm missing it?) I will have a 5th grader -- these look like some great additions to our planned curriculum, but I need to learn more.... Both of these items look intriguing. Ideas for best age to start? W/ Matthew Lipman's books, would you need to start at the beginning, or just at the appropriate grade level? I'm very curious & interested in hearing more about these resources from anyone who has used them &/or knows anything about them.... Anything? Anyone? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2read Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I've used the touchstones and if you books.google.com you will find some of them there. The Great Books Academy and Angelicum.net used to use them. They may still use them. If you can't find touchstones on google, send me a pm and I'll pull mine off the shelf and give you more information. They are intended to be used with a group, but they're a nice change of pace even with mom. I bought mine used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 Wow, wow, wow! I can't believe I didn't know of the google site (what rock have I been under?). I've found some very good samples, thanks. I actually am now looking at the Touchpebbles program, as that would probably be more suited to the current age of my dc. Any other info or tips you have to share about how you actually use this program in your hs (vs. in a group setting)? Do you use the Philosophy for Children series? Thanks again. This is awesome info! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2read Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Last year I used Touchstone Pebbles A with a 5th grader who doesn't like to think deeply. Just mentioning that to give you an idea of levels. I only bought the teacher's guide and I found the stories they referred to online. Once a week we just followed the procedure in the book. I did want to organize something online and tried to determine a way to set up free online conferencing, but got very little input. It was ok just doing it with mom, but I imagine it would be better doing it as a group since the children would be challenging each other at their own level. I have not seen Philosophy for Children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Matthew Lipman's Philosophy for Children series... Have you used these? What are they exactly? Are there samples somewhere I can view? (I haven't found any yet & wonder if I'm missing it?) I will have a 5th grader -- these look like some great additions to our planned curriculum, but I need to learn more.... Both of these items look intriguing. Ideas for best age to start? W/ Matthew Lipman's books, would you need to start at the beginning, or just at the appropriate grade level? The Lipman series is mind blowingly amazing, but is best done in a small group (though one-on-one would certainly be better than not doing it). It's meant to be flowing and participant led, but the TM's are so substantial that I think it would be hard for most facilitators not to lead at least part of the discussion. Each level has a novel for students and a massive TM. If you'd like to see a sample, email the IAPC. I found them to be very helpful, and they'll probably be happy to send you a chapter of the TM. You'd probably want to start a 5th grader on Harry Stottlemier. According to Lipman, there's nothing essential that *must* be covered before, but Harry should not be skipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 Last year I used Touchstone Pebbles A with a 5th grader who doesn't like to think deeply. Just mentioning that to give you an idea of levels. I only bought the teacher's guide and I found the stories they referred to online. Once a week we just followed the procedure in the book. I did want to organize something online and tried to determine a way to set up free online conferencing, but got very little input. It was ok just doing it with mom, but I imagine it would be better doing it as a group since the children would be challenging each other at their own level. I have not seen Philosophy for Children. Thanks. I was looking at Touchstones Pebbles B -- the samples make me think it looks like the correct level for my rising 5th grader. Even though you weren't doing it in a group setting, what benefits do you think your child got from using this program? Did your dc learn to think more deeply, or see situations from multiple perspectives, or ...??? I guess I'm just curious as to the benefits/learning/understanding/knowledge you saw in your child as a result of using this program. I'm also wondering if this could be something fun to try to do w/ a group of my dc's friends too (small group -- maybe 3-5 kids total) every once in awhile... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted June 18, 2008 Author Share Posted June 18, 2008 The Lipman series is mind blowingly amazing, but is best done in a small group (though one-on-one would certainly be better than not doing it). It's meant to be flowing and participant led, but the TM's are so substantial that I think it would be hard for most facilitators not to lead at least part of the discussion. Each level has a novel for students and a massive TM. If you'd like to see a sample, email the IAPC. I found them to be very helpful, and they'll probably be happy to send you a chapter of the TM. You'd probably want to start a 5th grader on Harry Stottlemier. According to Lipman, there's nothing essential that *must* be covered before, but Harry should not be skipped. Thanks for the info, Moira! I so appreciate you chiming in on this. Have you used this series or just specific books? How did they work w/ your dc? Did it help lay a good foundation for futher philosophical studies down the road, help expand logic & reasoning abilities, etc? Studying philosophy is a new area for me too, so I'm on this learning road as much as I want my dc to be too, if that makes sense. So, I appreciate any commments, advice, or info I can find! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The Lipman series is mind blowingly amazing, butJust wanted to add that the novels center around school and school kids. DD has read enough about school and the social dynamic in schools that this isn't an issue for us, but might be for other families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Thanks for the info, Moria! I so appreciate you chiming in on this. Have you used this series or just specific books? How did they work w/ your dc? Did it help lay a good foundation for futher philosophical studies down the road, help expand logic & reasoning abilities, etc?We've used Elfie, and I have the materials for Kio and Gus. DD is an advanced student, but I don't see the point of working ahead of age level when so much of the material deals with emotional maturity and the discussion level is driven by the participants. I plan to do one a year. Elfie we did one-on-one, but I'm going to do the rest as small co-ops. I'd also recommend reading the books aimed at teachers on the IAPC site (I think Philosophy in the Classroom is one). There is a *lot* of food for though in the discussions. DD enjoyed the discussions because she could talk about her ideas in an abstract way (as opposed to making it personal, something that will make her clam up completely). I don't know that her logic and reason abilities improved (they were pretty good to begin with), but her ability to look at situations from different perspectives and desire to delve below the surface of a situation certainly did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 You'd probably want to start a 5th grader on Harry Stottlemier. According to Lipman, there's nothing essential that *must* be covered before, but Harry should not be skipped. So do you think Harry would be appropriate for a mixed-age group of, say, 6th-11th graders? Would that be too wide a range? I want to use this next year with my dd for 6th, and would love to ask some of our friends to join in, but they are 7th-11th grade, so I wish I had a better feel for how age-specific Harry is. I'm not really sure how much philosophy the other kids have had, so that would probably make a difference, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 So do you think Harry would be appropriate for a mixed-age group of, say, 6th-11th graders?I would suspect this to be the case (I'm partial to mixed age groups anyway), but you'd probably want to contact the IAPC for better information. If you're planning this for fall, I'd recommend getting the materials now -- the TM's are bigger than I'd imagined after having been warned of their size. :) The discussion leader/facilitator needs to be on top of the material to be able to effectively guide the discussion without seeming to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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