vitamins and supplement question (B6)

[atozmom]

My DS is currently taking a kids chewable multi-vitamin, Nordic naturals Omega 3-6-9 Junior and Nature's Way Primadophilus Children.

 

He will be starting physical therapy for some back and neck pain that he has. Someone recommended Nature's Way Calcium, Magnesium and Zinc as it would be good for his muscles. So I will be adding that in as well.

 

I also want to add Nature's Way 5-HTP to help with his focus, attention and mild mood swings. His multi-vitamins say they contain 2mg B6 and the 5-HTP contains 10mg B6. Will this be too much B6? When I do a google search I get a lot of conflicting answers about what is too much B6. Any advice from experienced moms? TIA as I am new to vitamins and supplements. :001_smile:

Edited February 18, 2012 by atozmom
typo

[Dandelion]

We've been giving DS8 50mg of B6 daily for 1.5 years with no adverse effects. So I think you're probably fine with 12mg daily.

 

B6 is a water-soluble vitamin, which means the body cannot store it and leftover amounts that the body can't use leave through the urine. It is still possible, even with water-soluble vitamins, to reach a toxic amount - but much less likely than with fat-soluble vitamins.

 

Most of the books/articles I've read on the topic of biomedical treatment with supplements indicate that B6 supplementation isn't just used to overcome deficiencies of B6, but to employ B6 as a therapeutic agent. If used as a therapeutic agent, the need for B6 can greatly exceed the general recommended daily intake.

 

My favorite book on this subject ("Healing the New Childhood Epidemics" by Kenneth Bock, M.D.) actually recommends 100mg-500mg of B6 per day for kids - depending upon age, size, and other treatments and indications.

 

HTH! :)

[atozmom]

Thank you Julie! I will look into the book too.

[PeterPan]

Have you figured out why his back and neck are hurting? It might be he needs to go to the chiropractor. If he's low tone, the way his pillow supports his neck can make a huge difference. If he has food intolerances (gluten, milk, whatever) or isn't digesting well or his kidneys are unhappy, the shoulders will tighten up. And when those muscles tighten, it pulls the neck out of whack. Magnesium is good, but you have to balance it with calcium. He's old enough to be taking proper vitamins, not a kid multi. At that age my dd was taking a full dose of calcium and magnesium (2:1) every day. She's good and tall now, despite not drinking milk. :)

[atozmom]

Have you figured out why his back and neck are hurting? It might be he needs to go to the chiropractor. If he's low tone, the way his pillow supports his neck can make a huge difference. If he has food intolerances (gluten, milk, whatever) or isn't digesting well or his kidneys are unhappy, the shoulders will tighten up. And when those muscles tighten, it pulls the neck out of whack. Magnesium is good, but you have to balance it with calcium. He's old enough to be taking proper vitamins, not a kid multi. At that age my dd was taking a full dose of calcium and magnesium (2:1) every day. She's good and tall now, despite not drinking milk. :)

 

He has already had an eval with the physical therapist. I think someone accidentally tossed my paper with notes so I will pull most of this from memory. (I will be calling on Mon so I can get everything in writing again.) His biggest issue was tight, weak hamstrings. This is causing a misalignment in his lower and upper back, causing tight muscles in those areas. He also has poor posture. We have a set of 6 exercises to be doing everyday to help strengthen his hamstrings. Once his insurance approves the physical therapy, he will go twice a week for 8-12 weeks. I didn't even think to ask her what type of pillow would be best for him. Thank you, I will ask that as well.

 

We are also just starting a GF diet as he does have issues with irregularity and Gluten is a factor for me. We are already dye free and preservative free. I was also going to be adding calcium, magnesium and zinc starting next week. I am headed to the health food store tomorrow. Is there a particular brand that you recommend over others? I was going to get Nature's Way.

[Guest]

I was reading this yesterday while researching a new brand of Omega 3 we will be getting for my son Adrian and thought it might be helpful given your question:

 

If the body needs omega-3, omega-6 and omega-9, shouldn't I take a supplement that contains all three?

No. The typical diet contains a disproportionate amount of omega-6 and although some omega-6 is good, excessive amounts can promote a broad range of degenerative disease including heart conditions, arthritis and immune system dysfunction. Common sources of omega-6 in the diet include cooking oils, baked goods, cereals and red meat. Aside from omega-3 and omega-6, your body can produce all other types of omega fats including omega-9 and omega-7. These fatty acids are also plentiful in a typical diet.

Here's the link:

 

http://www.popeyescanada.com/inf_ascenta_nutrasea_hp_liq.php

 

Of course this is just one company saying it so I would do some more research if I were you.

[atozmom]

I was reading this yesterday while researching a new brand of Omega 3 we will be getting for my son Adrian and thought it might be helpful given your question:

 

Here's the link:

 

http://www.popeyescanada.com/inf_ascenta_nutrasea_hp_liq.php

 

Of course this is just one company saying it so I would do some more research if I were you.

 

 

Thank you, I will check into that as well. The sources of food that contain Omega 6 as per the quote above, we do not eat a lot of. Finding baked goods and cereals that are GF and dye and preservative free has been hard, not to mention expensive. As far as meat goes, we tend to eat mostly chicken and pork. We may have red meat once a week. But I will still be looking into it all.

 

Can anyone recommend any other good books that contain all of this information? Searching multiple websites each having varying opinions is making my head spin. :tongue_smilie:

[Guest]

Thank you, I will check into that as well. The sources of food that contain Omega 6 as per the quote above, we do not eat a lot of. Finding baked goods and cereals that are GF and dye and preservative free has been hard, not to mention expensive. As far as meat goes, we tend to eat mostly chicken and pork. We may have red meat once a week. But I will still be looking into it all.

 

Can anyone recommend any other good books that contain all of this information? Searching multiple websites each having varying opinions is making my head spin. :tongue_smilie:

 

Sorry... I think I need to get my glasses checked :lol:! You said B6 and I was thinking Omega 6. My apologies!

 

Since you will be following the gluten free diet, these books seem to have good reviews on Amazon:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Kid-Friendly-Autism-Cookbook-Updated-Revised/dp/159233394X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1329698089&sr=8-2

 

http://www.amazon.com/Autism-ADHD-Diet-Step---Step/dp/1402218451/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329698089&sr=8-1

 

Not sure if they are helpful for what you are looking for though (where supplements are concerned)! The second is only $2.50 if you buy it on Kindle.

[atozmom]

Sorry... I think I need to get my glasses checked :lol:! You said B6 and I was thinking Omega 6. My apologies!

 

Since you will be following the gluten free diet, these books seem to have good reviews on Amazon:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Kid-Friendly-Autism-Cookbook-Updated-Revised/dp/159233394X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1329698089&sr=8-2

 

http://www.amazon.com/Autism-ADHD-Diet-Step---Step/dp/1402218451/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329698089&sr=8-1

 

Not sure if they are helpful for what you are looking for though (where supplements are concerned)! The second is only $2.50 if you buy it on Kindle.

 

No apologies. :001_smile: He actually is already taking Omega 3-6-9 so what you mentioned would be something that I would like to look into.

 

I have looked at both of those books several times. I would really like to get them and a really good book on supplements and vitamins. My Amazon cart just keeps getting more and more expensive. :lol:

[Guest]

No apologies. :001_smile: He actually is already taking Omega 3-6-9 so what you mentioned would be something that I would like to look into.

 

I have looked at both of those books several times. I would really like to get them and a really good book on supplements and vitamins. My Amazon cart just keeps getting more and more expensive. :lol:

 

I know what you mean! I have purchased quite a few books lately and am now in the process of reading them. I am a slow reader :tongue_smilie:, taking notes and pondering over things. I have decided not to add any more books until I read what I have already bought but I would love to find a good supplements and vitamins book. I'll be following your thread hoping that someone will post one ;)!

[Guest]

Actually, the one that Julie posted looks really good! I think I may get that one!

[atozmom]

Actually, the one that Julie posted looks really good! I think I may get that one!

 

Yes, I have that one in my cart too. I also found this, this and a complete idiots guide. :lol:

 

I also just found this one (Prescription for Nutritional Healing: A Practical A-to-Z Reference to Drug-Free Remedies Using Vitamins, Minerals, Herbs & Food Supplements" by Phyllis A. Balch) when searching the boards. It was another book recommended by Julie. Thanks Julie!

Edited February 20, 2012 by atozmom
found another

[Guest]

Yes, I have that one in my cart too. I also found this, this and a complete idiots guide. :lol:

 

Thanks, I'll check them out too :)!

[atozmom]

Edited my post above to add another one in a thread by Julie

[Guest]

Edited my post above to add another one in a thread by Julie

 

Thank you for pointing that out! I will be looking at getting the two Julie posted also, I think. I need to check the other threads. I have been busy cutting the family's hair :tongue_smilie:, while taking breaks to reply here.

 

Thank you to you too Julie :)!

[atozmom]

I just checked online with our local Barnes and Noble and "Prescription for Nutritional Healing", "The Vitamin Bible" and "The Idiot Guide" are all available in the store for me to look through! Now if I can get a chance to get there without DS I'll be set. :lol:

 

Speaking of DS, time to get him in bed. :001_smile:

[atozmom]

Both of the books that Julie recommended are in my local library system!!! I just requested them. Doing the happy dance. :party:

[Guest]

Both of the books that Julie recommended are in my local library system!!! I just requested them. Doing the happy dance. :party:

 

Same here, cool! I just put them both on hold too! Ours only has the 2006 edition of Nutritional Healing, for now. The 2010 edition has not been cataloged yet, so I guess they got them recently and it seems to take a while for them to catalog them, so I'll just get the previous edition. I just want to check them and see if I should buy them or just use them from the library, for now :)!

[PeterPan]

He has already had an eval with the physical therapist. I think someone accidentally tossed my paper with notes so I will pull most of this from memory. (I will be calling on Mon so I can get everything in writing again.) His biggest issue was tight, weak hamstrings. This is causing a misalignment in his lower and upper back, causing tight muscles in those areas. He also has poor posture. We have a set of 6 exercises to be doing everyday to help strengthen his hamstrings. Once his insurance approves the physical therapy, he will go twice a week for 8-12 weeks. I didn't even think to ask her what type of pillow would be best for him. Thank you, I will ask that as well.

 

We are also just starting a GF diet as he does have issues with irregularity and Gluten is a factor for me. We are already dye free and preservative free. I was also going to be adding calcium, magnesium and zinc starting next week. I am headed to the health food store tomorrow. Is there a particular brand that you recommend over others? I was going to get Nature's Way.

 

Well the two things that really help with bowels for us are fruit and enzymes. People need to eat much more fruit than we realize. Even a cup a day can make a huge difference, say a banana in the morning and an apple in the afternoon. For the enzymes, our speech therapist recommended Houston Enzymes. My kids and I take them when we get into milk, and they work well. For more general gut clearing, I really like bromelain. It's an enzyme, inexpensive, and it works really well. I've taken Nature's Web, but it's pricey. Right now I'm taking Jarrow and am pleased. I got it off amazon. But basically any bromelain from your health food store will work. Try two, three times a day.

 

Rather than giving him a supplement for the zinc, I would give him some foods that contain it. Just google vegetables with zinc and see what pops up. There are certain veges that are really high in minerals. That's all it will take. That way he's getting the enzymes and whatnot that come with it too to improve absorption. When you take a lot of vitamins (which I do btw), sometimes you just end up with expensive pee. I've used a nutritionist for years for my issues, and she doesn't put anyone on isolated things like just zinc. Stuff works together, and it's really not necessary. An isolated b vitamin isn't necessary like that either. If he's that low, it means his digestion is off and he needs to eat more beets. Brown rice is very high in B vitamins, or take a B supplement that has all of them.

 

The vits I take are from Food Form. They're a food source vit and you pay through the nose. They sell directly and give quantity discounts. My nutritionist is the one who steered me to them, and it was because at the time I had increasing food allergies and needed something she felt I wouldn't react to. They've worked for me, so that's what I do.

 

Ok, I just googled foods high in zinc. Of the ones I saw in a top 10 list, the foods I eat a lot (per nutritionist orders) are: wheat germ, tahini, and pumpkin seeds. So try those. Tahini you can use to make hummus. Or put the tahini on a rice cake with sunflower seeds, ie. sorta like peanut butter. Or use it to make halvah balls with the wheat germ. Halvah balls are sweet and tasty. Pumpkin seeds you eat raw (also called pepitos). Your health food store will have them. They're green, mild. I like eating them straight, but I also like them ground and put on oatmeal or yogurt. Try 2 tablespoons a day.

 

BTW, it totally slipped my mind. Probiotics also help keep the bowels regular. Not to be personal, but I never could get to where my nutritionist wanted me till I started taking Primadophilus Optima. I know you mentioned having him on one. The Optima one is just stronger, a lot stronger. It's not going to replace bromelain and getting him some enzymes to break up whatever is logging up in him undigested. But once you get that digestion going, the strong probiotic will help things keep happy in there.

Edited February 20, 2012 by OhElizabeth

[atozmom]

Well the two things that really help with bowels for us are fruit and enzymes. People need to eat much more fruit than we realize. Even a cup a day can make a huge difference, say a banana in the morning and an apple in the afternoon. For the enzymes, our speech therapist recommended Houston Enzymes. My kids and I take them when we get into milk, and they work well. For more general gut clearing, I really like bromelain. It's an enzyme, inexpensive, and it works really well. I've taken Nature's Web, but it's pricey. Right now I'm taking Jarrow and am pleased. I got it off amazon. But basically any bromelain from your health food store will work. Try two, three times a day.

 

Rather than giving him a supplement for the zinc, I would give him some foods that contain it. Just google vegetables with zinc and see what pops up. There are certain veges that are really high in minerals. That's all it will take. That way he's getting the enzymes and whatnot that come with it too to improve absorption. When you take a lot of vitamins (which I do btw), sometimes you just end up with expensive pee. I've used a nutritionist for years for my issues, and she doesn't put anyone on isolated things like just zinc. Stuff works together, and it's really not necessary. An isolated b vitamin isn't necessary like that either. If he's that low, it means his digestion is off and he needs to eat more beets. Brown rice is very high in B vitamins, or take a B supplement that has all of them.

 

The vits I take are from Food Form. They're a food source vit and you pay through the nose. They sell directly and give quantity discounts. My nutritionist is the one who steered me to them, and it was because at the time I had increasing food allergies and needed something she felt I wouldn't react to. They've worked for me, so that's what I do.

 

Ok, I just googled foods high in zinc. Of the ones I saw in a top 10 list, the foods I eat a lot (per nutritionist orders) are: wheat germ, tahini, and pumpkin seeds. So try those. Tahini you can use to make hummus. Or put the tahini on a rice cake with sunflower seeds, ie. sorta like peanut butter. Or use it to make halvah balls with the wheat germ. Halvah balls are sweet and tasty. Pumpkin seeds you eat raw (also called pepitos). Your health food store will have them. They're green, mild. I like eating them straight, but I also like them ground and put on oatmeal or yogurt. Try 2 tablespoons a day.

 

BTW, it totally slipped my mind. Probiotics also help keep the bowels regular. Not to be personal, but I never could get to where my nutritionist wanted me till I started taking Primadophilus Optima. I know you mentioned having him on one. The Optima one is just stronger, a lot stronger. It's not going to replace bromelain and getting him some enzymes to break up whatever is logging up in him undigested. But once you get that digestion going, the strong probiotic will help things keep happy in there.

 

Wow, thank you for taking the time to type all of that out. I will be looking into your suggestions.

 

He just starting taking Primadophilus so I am hoping to see results with that. We would not be able to implement the wheat germ as we are going GF, but I will check into the other foods you mentioned. I bet he would like the pumpkin seeds. He is a little picky about vegetables, but not horribly so.

 

Thanks again. It looks like I have a lot of studying to do. :tongue_smilie:

[PeterPan]

I know, the wheat germ used to give me horrible headaches too. If you take it with raw honey (for the enzymes) that can help. But yeah, just in general steer clear and do something else. Good food can totally change his life; it has mine. It's surprising how many kids *will* eat veges. They like the crunch of bell pepper strips and that sort of thing when they have sensory issues.

 

I've read that kids crave what we ate when we were pregnant with them. It's not an excuse or something to fret (because it can be overcome), but it gives us a bit of understanding of where they're coming from. It's why I also don't take the opinion of a child on food seriously. If he is shying away from something, that's noteworthy because it tells you how he's digesting, etc. etc. But even our speech therapist (who does apraxia and feeding disorders), says that as far as actual food preferences (not intolerances), that comes much later. With a young child, she says they basically just need time to get used to it, assuming they aren't reacting to it. My daughter craves things that were what I ate when carrying her, but after years of salad eating she now choses that. (And I keep away from her anything she craves!) My son had the benefit of a bit better eating while I carried him, so he enjoyed good things from the start. So it's definitely overcomeable.

 

Do you have a Trader Joes near you? They have wild rice super duper cheap. It's kind of the ultimate for clearing out your gut with food. You cook it and it blows up like shrimp. Use it with your dinner instead of pasta or rice or potatoes. It's low starch, technically a grass, and very mild in flavor. We like it with spaghetti sauce, stir fried with veges or tofu, etc.

[KFK]

http://WWW.NBNUS.net supplements

 

Arch supports for back pain...(just a thought)

[atozmom]

It's surprising how many kids *will* eat veges.

He actually does eat quite a variety. A lot more than other kids I know. I just need to start introducing new ones and stay with it until he eats them well.

 

I've read that kids crave what we ate when we were pregnant with them. It's not an excuse or something to fret (because it can be overcome), but it gives us a bit of understanding of where they're coming from.

 

This would definitely explain his love for chocolate! :lol:

 

 

 

Do you have a Trader Joes near you? They have wild rice super duper cheap. It's kind of the ultimate for clearing out your gut with food. You cook it and it blows up like shrimp. Use it with your dinner instead of pasta or rice or potatoes. It's low starch, technically a grass, and very mild in flavor. We like it with spaghetti sauce, stir fried with veges or tofu, etc.

 

We do not have a Trader Joes. I so wish we did. We have one health food store here. It has an ok selection, but not the best. I have to rely on that and the Greenwise/GF selection at Publix. Not a lot to choose from unless I start ordering online.

[atozmom]

Same here, cool! I just put them both on hold too! Ours only has the 2006 edition of Nutritional Healing, for now. The 2010 edition has not been cataloged yet, so I guess they got them recently and it seems to take a while for them to catalog them, so I'll just get the previous edition. I just want to check them and see if I should buy them or just use them from the library, for now :)!

 

Oh my goodness. I was able to pick up Nutrional Healing today from the library (the other one is being transfered from another library in our county). It is the size of a phone book! I did ask for a book with a lot of information. :lol:

[Guest]

Oh my goodness. I was able to pick up Nutrional Healing today from the library (the other one is being transfered from another library in our county). It is the size of a phone book! I did ask for a book with a lot of information. :lol:

 

Indeed :lol:! I just told my husband what you said (he is probably picking ours up tomorrow) and he said "so I guess YOU will be picking it up, right?" :lol:. At least I don't have a stack of other books with them this time (ours are both ready for pick-up)!

[Misty]

Just wanted to mention quickly that you don't need to supplement with Omega 6 & 9.. We get plenty of these in diet and too much can throw off the balance and cause problems.. Google for more info.:)

[Guest]

Oh my goodness. I was able to pick up Nutrional Healing today from the library (the other one is being transfered from another library in our county). It is the size of a phone book! I did ask for a book with a lot of information. :lol:

 

:eek: Now I see what you mean! My hubby just brought both books home. The 2006 edition is almost 900 pages. Me thinks I will stick to using this one from the library :lol:! My overloaded bookcases are beginning to hate me and there's no Kindle edition!

Edited February 23, 2012 by Guest

[atozmom]

Just wanted to mention quickly that you don't need to supplement with Omega 6 & 9.. We get plenty of these in diet and too much can throw off the balance and cause problems.. Google for more info.:)

 

Thanks Misty! I have actually been looking into this more and don't think we will continue the 3-6-9. Just the Omega 3.

[atozmom]

:eek: Now I see what you mean! My hubby just brought both books home. The 2006 edition is almost 900 pages. Me thinks I will stick to using this one from the library :lol:. My overloaded bookcases are beginning to hate me and there's no Kindle edition!

 

:lol: I have been thinking the same thing. I will take lots of notes while I have it. Then if I think I need it again I will make a trip to the library. I just don't have room for this on my shelves either.

[Guest]

:lol: I have been thinking the same thing. I will take lots of notes while I have it. Then if I think I need it again I will make a trip to the library. I just don't have room for this on my shelves either.

 

Yup, that's what I was thinking. I started reading Bock's book and it is really interesting, by the way. Now, I have never been one to see Autism as anything other than genetic but he is making such a strong case for the connection between the rise in the 4-A's (in the more recent years) after the other epidemics were dealt with, through vaccines!

 

My hubby and I were having a discussion on it and just putting two and two together. The good thing is that the toxicity caused (based on Dr. Bock) is treatable and the prognosis for kids that regressed at a later date is very good. In our case and one of the main reasons why I got the book, I am seeing more and more that ADHD or ADD is probably where we are at with Adrian. With the overlap, when you are trying to figure these things out on your own, you can get easily confused :tongue_smilie:. Then again, there's a lot to be said about misdiagnosis too!

 

Bottom line is, we'll do anything we have to do, even if it means doing the elimination diets. Anyway, very, very interesting stuff and I have only read a few pages since I am also reading other stuff! I think I may be buying this one.