SorrelZG Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 DS and math. Again. Still. I believe I have sufficiently established that the connecting factor in our problems is ME. Changing up math hasn't helped. The same pattern is ongoing. When he starts acting up I've been handing him a MM page and having him work on it by himself. He comes to me if he needs anything clarified. In the last two days he began working on Chapter 7 (1B) and he has completed the work quickly either without error or just one that he fixed as soon as I drew his attention to it. There just seems to be a lot less frustration experienced by either of us this way so I guess I'm back to the previous plan of simply letting him accelerate through to the end of MM1. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Changing up math hasn't helped. The same pattern is ongoing. When he starts acting up I've been handing him a MM page and having him work on it by himself. He comes to me if he needs anything clarified. In the last two days he began working on Chapter 7 (1B) and he has completed the work quickly either without error or just one that he fixed as soon as I drew his attention to it. There just seems to be a lot less frustration experienced by either of us this way so I guess I'm back to the previous plan of simply letting him accelerate through to the end of MM1. *sigh* May I suggest something? How about taking a week off structured/ scheduled math? OK, if not a week then a few days. Strew some higher level books around the house where he's bound to see them. I mean at least 2-3 grade levels higher. See what he does. That might be your answer. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 This is the "Accelerated Learner Board" and I don't post here often. But right now I am sort of taking a break from math with my eldest. He is in the middle of Singapore 3A. Having to put pencil on paper to figure out multi-step problems is to much for him. So we are going ... sideways in math. We have learn about prime numbers, composite numbers, and other types of numbers, negative, positive, whole, natural, counting. We learn how to list those numbers in set. We are now almost done memorizing the times tables 1 to 12. We will then memorize the division tables for the same questions. Then perhaps I will try to get back to having to (Oh NO!!!!) put pencil on paper. If he still isn't ready I'll have to think of other ways of going sideways in math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 May I suggest something? How about taking a week off structured/ scheduled math? OK, if not a week then a few days. Strew some higher level books around the house where he's bound to see them. I mean at least 2-3 grade levels higher. See what he does. That might be your answer. :grouphug: I don't know what, though. I thought about the higher levels of Miquon .. and then Life of Fred occurred to me .. except I don't want to pay that fortune .. more than paying for it though, I'm trying to cut back on books. They're not in the library and I know no-one with them to even try them out. DS is a Fred kind of guy though. If it hooked him as much as I think it would, it would be worth it .. or not .. I'm not a huge fan of the author. Maybe I'd be won over if I read more of his work. .. and then Kitchen Table Math books 2 and 3 just arrived in the mail today. :001_rolleyes: I'd postponed the decision on that .. finally made it .. and this is where I find myself. *sigh* Why does this have to be so difficult? I see from comments and various threads that my plight is not unique. It appears to be that one is either dealing with plateauing OR with speed and leaps that are difficult to accommodate and keep pace with. You know, some people just have to give their child one lesson per day, ie. "Lesson 17" on Monday, "Lesson 18" on Tuesday,"Lesson 19" on Wednesday ... I want it to be that easy!! I also had this pipe dream of it being inexpensive (comparatively, at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I don't know what, though. I thought about the higher levels of Miquon .. and then Life of Fred occurred to me .. except I don't want to pay that fortune .. more than paying for it though, I'm trying to cut back on books. They're not in the library and I know no-one with them to even try them out. DS is a Fred kind of guy though. If it hooked him as much as I think it would, it would be worth it .. or not .. I'm not a huge fan of the author. Maybe I'd be won over if I read more of his work. I wasn't actually referring to buying more curriculum, I should have stated that clearly. I had the living math books in mind, esp. books like Number Devil, Penrose, and anything that looks like logic puzzles--choose something a little higher than what he normally does. You might be able to find these at the library at least? How about the Family Math book? I haven't seen Kitchen Table Math. Maybe KTM will do the trick. But seriously, just laying off for a week helped us a lot. Why does this have to be so difficult? I see from comments and various threads that my plight is not unique. It appears to be that one is either dealing with plateauing OR with speed and leaps that are difficult to accommodate and keep pace with. You know, some people just have to give their child one lesson per day, ie. "Lesson 17" on Monday, "Lesson 18" on Tuesday,"Lesson 19" on Wednesday ... I want it to be that easy!!I still feel this with my 9yo. I still have that one weekend a month where I start researching boxed curriculum (and lovely boxy schedules with lovely boxy check boxes) and wondering why when it works for so many others it doesn't work for us. Some days I feel so shortchanged. I am homeschooling. I should be able to check boxes shouldn't I? So last week, I made a blank form with lines on the right and check boxes running down the left just to give myself the fleeting joy of checking a box when he works on something. :D Edited February 1, 2012 by quark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 I wasn't actually referring to buying more curriculum, I should have stated that clearly. I had the living math books in mind, esp. books like Number Devil, Penrose, and anything that looks like logic puzzles--choose something a little higher than what he normally does. You might be able to find these at the library at least? How about the Family Math book? I haven't seen Kitchen Table Math. Maybe KTM will do the trick. But seriously, just laying off for a week helped us a lot. Well that's a relief. I do see Number Devil at the library .. no Penrose .. I guess I'll go look through that area of the library next time I can get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebunny Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 DS and math. Again. Still. I believe I have sufficiently established that the connecting factor in our problems is ME. Changing up math hasn't helped. The same pattern is ongoing. When he starts acting up I've been handing him a MM page and having him work on it by himself. He comes to me if he needs anything clarified. In the last two days he began working on Chapter 7 (1B) and he has completed the work quickly either without error or just one that he fixed as soon as I drew his attention to it. There just seems to be a lot less frustration experienced by either of us this way so I guess I'm back to the previous plan of simply letting him accelerate through to the end of MM1. *sigh* :grouphug: I second the idea of taking a few days off of structured math. I highly recommend the math books by Theoni Pappas. In fact, all story books revolving around math ideas/concepts. And then there are mathy things with pen+paper. My DD especially likes KAKURO (Addition and multiplication- it's a sneaky way to get them to practice). Or number chains (MEP)... HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Changing up math hasn't helped. The same pattern is ongoing. When he starts acting up I've been handing him a MM page and having him work on it by himself. He comes to me if he needs anything clarified. In the last two days he began working on Chapter 7 (1B) and he has completed the work quickly either without error or just one that he fixed as soon as I drew his attention to it. There just seems to be a lot less frustration experienced by either of us this way so I guess I'm back to the previous plan of simply letting him accelerate through to the end of MM1. I missed what the frustration was about, but your solution described here sounds relatively smooth - what's the downside? Level of challenge? Strew some higher level books around the house where he's bound to see them. I mean at least 2-3 grade levels higher. Along these lines, you might do something similar if you find some math videos at an appropriate level or a couple years beyond. (e.g., tonight ds was thoroughly enjoying aops videos even though his math skills are just a smitch below what they'd need to be to start that book). You could turn it on when he was within listening distance, and then walk away from the computer to get something. Also, around that age, my ds learned a bit from one of the Murderous Maths books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 :grouphug: I second the idea of taking a few days off of structured math. I highly recommend the math books by Theoni Pappas. In fact, all story books revolving around math ideas/concepts. And then there are mathy things with pen+paper. My DD especially likes KAKURO (Addition and multiplication- it's a sneaky way to get them to practice). Or number chains (MEP)... HTH My "changing things up" was towards less structured math .. something more fluid and living .. the problem isn't the structure, it's me being too involved (apparently). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 My "changing things up" was towards less structured math .. something more fluid and living .. the problem isn't the structure, it's me being too involved (apparently). That's how my son acted at age 4. He resisted anything I *tried* to teach him. If it looked like me teaching him, he balked. If I left him alone, he learned tons. Of course, that has changed now, and 3 years later, he'll read on his own, but I certainly couldn't hand him a MM page and get it back filled out. :lol: Consider yourself lucky! Hand him some more! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 I missed what the frustration was about, but your solution described here sounds relatively smooth - what's the downside? Level of challenge? Well, it sounds terrible that I send my barely-six year old off to do his math independently. Aside from that I would like to enjoy math. There are much more interesting ways of learning than progressing through worksheets, even at an accelerated pace. Along these lines, you might do something similar if you find some math videos at an appropriate level or a couple years beyond. (e.g., tonight ds was thoroughly enjoying aops videos even though his math skills are just a smitch below what they'd need to be to start that book). You could turn it on when he was within listening distance, and then walk away from the computer to get something. Also, around that age, my ds learned a bit from one of the Murderous Maths books. Thank-you for the suggestions. Any books/videos/games that he can do independently would probably be useful to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 That's how my son acted at age 4. He resisted anything I *tried* to teach him. If it looked like me teaching him, he balked. If I left him alone, he learned tons. Of course, that has changed now, and 3 years later, he'll read on his own, but I certainly couldn't hand him a MM page and get it back filled out. :lol: Consider yourself lucky! Hand him some more! :D He's not the kind to want more. See, I just wish he could enjoy math. *sigh* Maybe I'm expecting too much. Perhaps he might enjoy it once he's beyond the basic foundational concepts and into applying them to more interesting things .. perhaps. That's one thing that draws me to LOF, the whole presenting math in life context. GAH! .. tell me it's not worth the investment to try it out on him. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebunny Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 My "changing things up" was towards less structured math .. something more fluid and living .. the problem isn't the structure, it's me being too involved (apparently). aaah..gotcha. :grouphug: It is indeed a fine balance to tread- getting involved or backing off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 aaah..gotcha. :grouphug: It is indeed a fine balance to tread- getting involved or backing off. It is, and trying to judge it is wearing me out. I feel like I'm trying to dance but just getting dizzy, stumbling over my feet and running into things. So yeah, he's going to continue doing math .. just not so much with me (though I'll be helping him as far as selecting appropriate work for him). I have others who actually want me to teach them things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It is, and trying to judge it is wearing me out. I feel like I'm trying to dance but just getting dizzy, stumbling over my feet and running into things. So yeah, he's going to continue doing math .. just not so much with me (though I'll be helping him as far as selecting appropriate work for him). I have others who actually want me to teach them things. I know that dance! It's like walking on a tight rope and throwing hoops in the air and balancing an egg on a teaspoon in your mouth all at the same time. With no net below you. Hate those fine lines. I used to think my son should be doing more math at that age. He didn't dislike math but he didn't like it as much as I wanted him to either. The backing off with living math and puzzle-style books, the humor of books like Murderous Maths, the videos (there's now tons more stuff available on YouTube than before -- Singing Banana, Vi Hart, Story of Maths, Donald in MathMagic Land), the whiteboard (asking him to give ME puzzles to solve) etc. these really made a difference. There's hope. You might feel a lot better tomorrow morning. :) I second that Murderous Maths idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Well, it sounds terrible that I send my barely-six year old off to do his math independently. Aside from that I would like to enjoy math. There are much more interesting ways of learning than progressing through worksheets, even at an accelerated pace. I don't think it sounds terrible - others might say it sounds like a dream ;). Sorry you're feeling "left out." Different kids prefer different approaches, and some prefer an abstract approach at an earlier age than others. I'd go with what's working, as long as you think he's sufficiently challenged. Thank-you for the suggestions. Any books/videos/games that he can do independently would probably be useful to him. I'm not sure what computer videos are at that level except for Khan, so that would be a place to start. He might enjoy the Mathtacular DVDs, all three (I haven't seen the fourth) (eta, all six of my kids, ages 10-2, find these entertaining, whether or not they actually learn any math, lol). Edited February 2, 2012 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 He's not the kind to want more. See, I just wish he could enjoy math. *sigh* Maybe I'm expecting too much. Perhaps he might enjoy it once he's beyond the basic foundational concepts and into applying them to more interesting things .. perhaps. That's one thing that draws me to LOF, the whole presenting math in life context. GAH! .. tell me it's not worth the investment to try it out on him. :glare: MM1 is pretty boring. I don't blame him for not loving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 MM1 is pretty boring. I don't blame him for not loving it. Well, he's almost done. There are just a few concepts he needs exposure to (exposure + a day or two to process seems to be all he needs at this stage). I'll be interested to see how MM2 goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 I don't think it sounds terrible - others might say it sounds like a dream ;). Sorry you're feeling "left out." Different kids prefer different approaches, and some prefer an abstract approach at an earlier age than others. I'd go with what's working, as long as you think he's sufficiently challenged. I'm not sure what computer videos are at that level except for Khan, so that would be a place to start. He might enjoy the Mathtacular DVDs, all three (I haven't seen the fourth) (eta, all six of my kids, ages 10-2, find these entertaining, whether or not they actually learn any math, lol). I'll look into those. I have put my finger on a problem - there are times when he does need me to help him understand something now and then that isn't clear to him in MM and it seems that I just suck at teaching math. Thanks for all the advice, ladies. :) After further consideration, we'll both be taking a break. (yes, I know I vacillate a lot - I really have no firm persuasion about what I feel like math should be at this point or if he should do it at all or if he should go forward or sideways or be accelerated or traditional or put off.... I'm a confused mess, tossed about by every wind of educational theory) Off for coffee .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 . I'm a confused mess, tossed about by every wind of educational theory) Off for coffee .. :grouphug: I feel the same ATM except maths and science are the only things we seem to have got just right. Hope the coffee helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 :grouphug: I feel the same ATM except maths and science are the only things we seem to have got just right. Hope the coffee helps. So of course the first thing I do is check your sig for what you're using for math. :lol::001_rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmama2 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So of course the first thing I do is check your sig for what you're using for math. :lol::001_rolleyes: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amie Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Just a :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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