choirfarm Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 For this first paragraph, she read a paragraph and took notes. The next day she used her notes to write her paragraph. She added some information that she knew from our other reading. We looked it over and corrected spelling. She then spent 2 days recopying it in cursive. So basically all week to write this: Courage The Alamo in San Antonio is a symbol of courage. Texans captured the Alamo from Sant Anna in 1835. Santa Anna was angry and wanted it back, so he took 6,000 men towars the Alamo to fight Col. Travis. Travis sent messengers to Sam houston, ending his letter with "victory or death." Only 36 men came to help him. The seige started on February 24th and ended March 6th. Santa Anna left no soldier alive. Among the dead were Davy Crocket and James Bowie. The only people that survived were women, children and slaves. People still remember the courage the people showed at the Alamo. To me, it seems like she should be able to do this all in one day, not 5. In ps, her friends have to take a topic and do a timed writing that takes a page to two pages. This was only 3/4 of a page. Yesterday we also read about a naturalist in Texas. After reading the 15 page chapter out loud to her, she narrated this to me: Jean Louis Berlandier was raised on a farm in Switzerland. He couldn't go to school, so he taught himself many things including three languages. He liked to collect plants. He went to Texas to gather plants and send them back to Switzerland. He met Stephen F. Austin. He collected 55,077 plant specimans, 198 packets of seeds, 935 insects, 72 birds and 700 mollusks. He also spent time with Indians. He decided to stay in Texas and raise a family. He was one of the first me to study plants and animals in Texas. She did not remember those statistics by memory..well almost she said 55,000 plants and 900 insects, etc. I copied the exact ones from the book. I will have her copy half of this in cursive today and half of it on Monday. I don't know when this child will ever be able to write quickly.... Is she on track? What do I need to do so she can just sit down and write something like this in less than 30 minutes? It just takes so long!!! Either she dictates it in 5 minutes and then copies it or it takes her days and days of writing it on her own.. Part of it is that she has NO idea how to spell about 1/2 the words she uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I think your expectations are unrealistic.;) If that paragraph is truly representative of independent (non-coached and not plagiarized) writing, then she is writing above grade level. The vocabulary and sentence structure is advanced. I think a week for that degree of output is fine. As far as not remembering the exact numbers, I think the fact that she remembered close estimates is great. FWIW, I would not worry about what is happening in the ps. The students may be writing more, but the quality will not be what you posted. Quality over quantity is a better objective. :001_smile: ETA: I would proofread the paragraph w/her and help her edit her mistakes. I do expect my kids' final copies to be free of errors. I use the editing process as a way to instruct in grammar, mechanics, and style. Edited January 13, 2012 by 8FillTheHeart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 my daughter is 10 and in 4th grade. her writing style is very similar to your daughter's. her papers this year have yet to exceed 2-3 pages, and that is double-spaced and in cursive. i also give her a week to complete assignments (each day with it's own agenda, i.e. brainstorm, some type of graphic organizer, sloppy copy, revisions, final draft). i think your daughter did well. i'm not sure what her rough draft looked like, so i don't know how the paper was transformed with revisions. if it is very similar to the original, i probably would have expanded there. otherwise, i think it really looks well!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 But did you catch that the second paragraph was her telling me a summary of the chapter and my writing it down? If I were to tell her to write it down herself OR if she had known I was going to have her copy it, it would sound like something a 1st grader would write because she doesn't know how to spell the words. Seriously, her writing for AWANA is embarrasing!!!! the first one she wrote down over many days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 So it sounds like you think the problems are spelling and writing speed, not grammar and composition? Her ability to compose sentences is very good. :) If spelling is a problem, focus on that with a spelling program, maybe add more dictation (I believe dictation has really helped my fourth grader with his spelling). SWB does talk about a disconnect, where many students do not transfer correct spelling over to their other writing until fourth or fifth grade. I know my son improved almost overnight in this area earlier this year. Maybe your dd just hasn't hit that stage yet? Do you think she takes a longish time to write because of spelling, or is her fine motor and handwriting weak, or just she just sit in front of the page for a while and have trouble knowing how to get words on paper? I'm no expert, but these are all different issues that might take different approaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesmileofGod Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Choirfarm, My dd is in fourth and just turned 10. The writing level is similar. Spelling is also a struggle for my dd. My dd is so much more intelligent than what her writing shows imho. When narrating aloud I can see how well she understands. Translating that onto paper well it is a process. My dd is making progress with spelling with dictation this year but is still not a great speller. Gina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 honestly, i think it's totally normal for a new writer to lose their ability to spell well when trying to form complete thoughts. that's why we start off with a "sloppy copy", and even then, we really don't attempt a sloppy copy without some kind of outline first (or it would be all over the place -at least for my daughter). it is about learning to organize thoughts & getting them out on paper, and that is a real learning curve to master. during rough drafts, we have no real concern for grammar (although i do require complete thoughts - just not correct spelling). then, we'll go back together and revise it, discussing issues along the way as we make corrections. i'd be glad to show you a step by step process of a week in my daughter's writing. i think you would find it similar to your own daughter's honestly. in my experience, the more my daughter is exposed to writing, the easier it becomes. when i compare her journey just from last year, she has grown leaps and bounds:) i'm certainly no expert in writing, just sharing my experience. i hope it encourages though. even if your daughter isn't up to par with public school currently, i don't think she's grossly behind. i imagine if she had to be thrown in the mix of a classroom, she would pick things up easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 So it sounds like you think the problems are spelling and writing speed, not grammar and composition? Her ability to compose sentences is very good. :) If spelling is a problem, focus on that with a spelling program, maybe add more dictation (I believe dictation has really helped my fourth grader with his spelling). SWB does talk about a disconnect, where many students do not transfer correct spelling over to their other writing until fourth or fifth grade. I know my son improved almost overnight in this area earlier this year. Maybe your dd just hasn't hit that stage yet? Do you think she takes a longish time to write because of spelling, or is her fine motor and handwriting weak, or just she just sit in front of the page for a while and have trouble knowing how to get words on paper? I'm no expert, but these are all different issues that might take different approaches. These are good questions. Spelling issues are not easily resolved for some really poor spellers. I have had 2. I made it a point to not address spelling w/in their writing when covering content, but addressed it separately. I did not want spelling to become their central factor in deciding what/how to write. :tongue_smilie: FWIW, my worst speller, my 10th grader, could not write as well as what you have posted here when he was in 4th grade b/c his spelling was such an obstacle......so much so that focusing on spelling impacted how he was able to think about writing in every way. Apples and Pears spelling really improved his spelling. He still misspells inordinate number words, but nothing compared to where he started. (and as a 10th grader, he still does spelling daily. :tongue_smilie: As a matter of fact, I am calling out his spelling dictation as I type!;)) As far as speed, if it is not related to trying to decide what to say or how to spell, I would wonder if processing speed is an issue. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 during rough drafts, we have no real concern for grammar (although i do require complete thoughts - just not correct spelling). then, we'll go back together and revise it, discussing issues along the way as we make corrections. i'd be glad to show you a step by step process of a week in my daughter's writing. i think you would find it similar to your own daughter's honestly. . That is exactly what we are doing. She takes the key words from the sentences and put it on the paper one day. The next day she writes out her thoughts. I don't require it to be neat. She may print and I don't care about spelling, but she still asks me how to spell every other word... The next day we go over it and add dress ups if I think she needs them. The ly one is NOT my favorite one, so I don't always require it. We also talk about punctuation and spelling if needed, but she generally punctuates well. The next day she copies 4 or 5 sentences in cursive. That is about her limit right now. The next day she finishes copying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homemama2 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 My fourth grader was suppose to write a 125 word 'report' for his grammar this week and it ended up being the same exact thing as you are describing. He worked on it each day and it took him FOREVER. sigh. They weren't even required to write it in separate paragraphs or anything. My ds just takes forever to write things like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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