8filltheheart Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 My 7th grader absolutely loves poetry and Shakespeare. (She definitely does not get it from me!) I have put together a Shakespeare unit that I am pretty happy with, but I am not quite sure where I want to go with the poetry. (FWIW, the American Shakespeare Center has some study guides available that examine the plays from the stage perspective that I am planning on using. http://www.americanshakespearecenter.com/v.php?pg=116) I have been eying TC's How to Read and Understand Poetry http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/Course_Detail.aspx?cid=268 but I was wondering if anyone has other sources they would recommend. (She has done basic poetry study in the past using MCT's poetry books....that is not what I am looking for.) Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfamily Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks for the link to the Shakespeare guides...they look great! They have one for Julius Caesar, which we hope to cover this year. I wish I could be of more help with the poetry resources. The TC course looks good, but then usually most of their courses do. We'll be studying some poets and literary terms for poetry this year too, but we'll be using the poetry terms from Figuratively Speaking along with Prose and Poetry (Walch Toolbox ) and probably The Grammar of Poetry (unless I find something else I like). I usually look for online guides/study questions for the poets we study. I think we will be studying Pope, Byron, Wheatley, Wordsworth and Coleridge and maybe Scott (but the latter only if dd still wants to add it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 We are using The Art of Poetry from Classical Academic Press and imo, it is awesome! I believe you can see samples on their website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Grammar of Poetry by Matt Whitling. They use it at Logos in 5th grade. I'm using it as a spine for the 1rst sem of a creative writing class for high schoolers. It's good, basic and gets the kids writing and reading. I'm also having them recite poetry for the class. It's inexpensive, too ; ) Check out Poetry Outloud- I think you have to be a 9th grader to enter but it might be something to shoot for and there are tons of resources on the web-site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thank you for all the suggestions. A few of the books look like the may fit what I think I am looking for. TXMary2, do you know if you need the student book if the TM contains a complete copy of the student text? Can you get away w/just the TM? Has anyone used the TC poetry lectures? I would appreciate feedback on those as well. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I am currently using Perrine's Sound and Sense: An Introduction to Poetry. ( This can also be part of the giant Perrine's volume that includes short stories and drama. I actually have both. The small paperback of just poetry has exactly the poetry is in the BIG volume of everything. I like the chapters and how they are written. They tell you how to read it and what to look for. Here is a quote that I like from chapter 2 that we did several weeks ago: "Read a poem more than once. A good poem will no more yield its full meaning on a single reading than will Beethoven symphony on a single hearing. Two readings may be necessary simply to let you get your bearings. And if the poem is a work of art, it will repay repeated and prolonged examination. One does not listen to a good piece of music once and forget it; one does not look at a good painting once and throw it away. A poem is not like a newspaper, to be hastily read and cast into the wastebasket. It is to be hung on the wall of one's mind." It has tons of poems, some of which it explains but many of which they want the student to do. I don't have the teacher materials for this,but haven't really needed it. I have been using this in between our Windows to the World and extra novels. We just finished Jane Eyre. So this week we will do chapters 3 and 4 from Perrine's. ( I don't do every single poem in there!!!) We read the chapter together and discuss it. ( I don't trust them to actually read it on their own! They would have just skimmed the above quote. I want them to really think about it.) Then we do a poem. The following day/days we do a couple of poems together then I give them a poem to do on their own and they come to me and we conference about it. The IEW AP Literature book has a great form for them to fill out about a poem they read and so they use that. However, the Perrinne's book has a great list of questions in chapter 2 called General exercises for analysis and evaluation. It is 21 questions for them to answer about any poem. Part 2 is a great section on writing about poetry. It explains explication and analysis. It gives great examples of different types and explains documentation as well. I'm actually going to do that section the next time we have our poetry break so they can start practicing writing about poetry in the spring. I was afraid I would kill them if we just did this book for a couple of months, so I am breaking it up and doing a little bit at a time. So far it is working well. Oh... I didn't like IEW Grammar of Poetry. It was all about writing poetry from what I remember ( I got rid of it.). I had planned to use it with Windows this year, but Perrine's was more of what I was looking for. Christine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks Christine!! This looks inline w/what I was hoping to find. How do you feel about the variety of the poems covered? A couple of the review I read suggested that the selection was not diverse. I also quickly eliminated Grammar of Poetry. I browsed through the online pages and it is definitely not what I am looking for. Thing is that I'm not actually sure what I want but know it when I see it. I do not like poetry but I know why dd does and what it is that has inspired her to this love. (she is very linguistically inclined.....so it is fed from her love of language in general.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 but I was wondering if anyone has other sources they would recommend. (She has done basic poetry study in the past using MCT's poetry books....that is not what I am looking for.) If MCT's advanced poetry studies are not what you're looking for, I'm wondering where you *are* wanting to go with this? Studying poet biographies? Writing more poetry? Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 If MCT's advanced poetry studies are not what you're looking for, I'm wondering where you *are* wanting to go with this? Studying poet biographies? Writing more poetry? Julie I don't like the way MCT teaches poetry and his materials are not what I am wanting to spend my $$ on. The flow of the TC lectures are more what I am looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memphispeg Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I love the Perrine's poetry section of the big lit. book. We used it last year. There are some really nice exercises along with the poems. It is handy to have for doing short story, novel and play analyses. I use it quite often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks Christine!! This looks inline w/what I was hoping to find. How do you feel about the variety of the poems covered? A couple of the review I read suggested that the selection was not diverse. .) I think the selections have plenty of diversity.It has most of the "standards" I remember reading from Shakespeare, Dickenson, Wordsworth, Plath, William Carlos Williams, Frost, Byron, Keats, Donne, and many others I wasn't as familiar with. One poet I had not heard of was Billy Collins and I really like his poetry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Thanks. I'm going to go ahead and order it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Thank you for all the suggestions. A few of the books look like the may fit what I think I am looking for. TXMary2, do you know if you need the student book if the TM contains a complete copy of the student text? Can you get away w/just the TM? Has anyone used the TC poetry lectures? I would appreciate feedback on those as well. Thanks again. Yes, you could easily use only the TM. The answers are separated from the student pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna J. Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 What is "MCT"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I was just going to post how I did a lesson yesterday, so you could see how I used Perrine's Sound and Sense. I ran off the important sections from the chapter and cut and paste them into a single document. I read it out loud, pausing for discussions at certain points. I had run off a fun exercise in the book that we then did together. Ex. Arrange the words in each of the following groups from most positive to most negative in terms of connotaion a. skinny, thin, gaunt, slender Then I had run off copies of the following poems: There is no frigate like a book, Shakespeare's Sonnet 138, and Wordsworth's The World is Too Much with Us. We then discussed these three in depth together, especially in terms of word choice. ( What if Dickenson had said there is no boat like a book or there is no schooner like a book or there is no ocean liner like a book?) I then gave them their assignment to complete today. The paper had a copy of Langston Hughes' poem, Cross. Analyze the following poem in a typed paragraph. Discuss the various meaning of the title and how each applies to the poem. (I can think of 6 different meanings of the word that apply!)Discuss the use of colloquial language and the meaning of the poem as well. I told them, it might actually be more than one paragraph depending on how they chose to organize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 I was just going to post how I did a lesson yesterday, so you could see how I used Perrine's Sound and Sense. I ran off the important sections from the chapter and cut and paste them into a single document. I read it out loud, pausing for discussions at certain points. I had run off a fun exercise in the book that we then did together. Ex. Arrange the words in each of the following groups from most positive to most negative in terms of connotaion a. skinny, thin, gaunt, slender Then I had run off copies of the following poems: There is no frigate like a book, Shakespeare's Sonnet 138, and Wordsworth's The World is Too Much with Us. We then discussed these three in depth together, especially in terms of word choice. ( What if Dickenson had said there is no boat like a book or there is no schooner like a book or there is no ocean liner like a book?) I then gave them their assignment to complete today. The paper had a copy of Langston Hughes' poem, Cross. Analyze the following poem in a typed paragraph. Discuss the various meaning of the title and how each applies to the poem. (I can think of 6 different meanings of the word that apply!)Discuss the use of colloquial language and the meaning of the poem as well. I told them, it might actually be more than one paragraph depending on how they chose to organize it. Oooooh, that sounds like exactly what I want. I can't wait to get everything I ordered. I hope that I made the right decision. I actually ordered the larger literature w/sound and sense b/c I could find it cheaper used than just the Sound and Sense. I thought I understood the content to be the same?? (I'm hoping that is correct!) Dd is going to love this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 29, 2011 Author Share Posted November 29, 2011 What is "MCT"? MCT stands for Michael Clay Thompson. His books are published through Royal Fireworks Press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Oooooh, that sounds like exactly what I want. I can't wait to get everything I ordered. I hope that I made the right decision. I actually ordered the larger literature w/sound and sense b/c I could find it cheaper used than just the Sound and Sense. I thought I understood the content to be the same?? (I'm hoping that is correct!) Dd is going to love this. OH yes!!! The fiction section is very much like Windows to the World except a lot more in depth with many more stories. I thought Windows was a little lite, more like a junior high text. So they are reading Perrine along with extra novels, poems and plays in addition to windows. I do like how Windows teaches the writing. The drama section of Perrine's is great as well with A Doll House, The Glass Menagerie, Othello, and Death of a Salesman! Oh, and if you ever get stuck on a poem and you don't understand it, then just google it. YOu will get sites like this one: http://www.cummingsstudyguides.net/Guides4/cross.html Christine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Eight, I am sorry I did not see this earlier. While I like the TC lectures for myself, they have not been a huge hit with my dc and are in fact a bit too sophisticated for my youngest (13). That may not be the case for your student. This year, we are continuing to read a poem each morning and I am using Nancie Atwell's Naming the World: A Year of Poems and Lessons. While it is a bit "schoolish," it has given me a rather mindless way to continue our regualr readings without too much effort on my part. I read the poem out loud, ds goes back through and marks up what strikes him and we discuss one or two aspects. It never takes more than ten minutes and it has helped me narrow down poets and types of poems to pursue in depth. Twice a month, we will cover poetry from the particular historical period we are studying. Other times, we follow trails. I have written before how we look at how one literary work may inspire another type of literary work. We cover poetic devices, but I am careful to keep the enjoyment factor. We did an Edward Lear unit that we loved and my dd pulled together some materials she had so that we could do some of Shakespeare's sonnets. If you did order the TC lecture due to the sale, I would be interested in hearing what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Gee, Lisa, I wish I had known. Oh well, I did order them. But perhaps that is a good thing. I really don't like poetry and I have been struggling with it! Dd finished Lady of the Lake yesterday and I could not find enough information online to make it easier on me. (she, otoh, loved it.:tongue_smilie: I'm not quite sure where this child came from!) I definitely need more self-education in this area to keep up w/her! I'll let you know what dd thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 We are using The Art of Poetry from Classical Academic Press and imo, it is awesome! I believe you can see samples on their website. I received this in the mail a few days ago and have been going through it. It is wonderful. Thank you for the recommendation. I think this will work really well w/my dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 OH yes!!! The fiction section is very much like Windows to the World except a lot more in depth with many more stories. I thought Windows was a little lite, more like a junior high text. So they are reading Perrine along with extra novels, poems and plays in addition to windows. I do like how Windows teaches the writing. The drama section of Perrine's is great as well with A Doll House, The Glass Menagerie, Othello, and Death of a Salesman! Oh, and if you ever get stuck on a poem and you don't understand it, then just google it. YOu will get sites like this one: http://www.cummingsstudyguides.net/Guides4/cross.html Christine I love the Perrine's book! Goodness, one of the first examples in the grammar section I have never taught my children. (something along the lines of "In Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors, he........ is incorrect b/c of the incorrect form of the antecedent. Shakespeare's is possessive.) I love that attention to detail and it is not something I have come across in any of our other books. I just received the instructor's manual in the mail yesterday and haven't had the time to sit w/ it. I am a little concerned b/c the used text that I bought was advertised as the 12 ed but ended up being the 10th. The IM is the 12th. I'm not sure how closely they are going to match. :tongue_smilie: I am not going to complain too much though b/c the used text is hard-covered and almost like new and I pd very little for it. If I have to buy another ed, it will have been worth it b/c I know I really like the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I love the Perrine's book! Goodness, one of the first examples in the grammar section I have never taught my children. (something along the lines of "In Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors, he........ is incorrect b/c of the incorrect form of the antecedent. Shakespeare's is possessive.) I love that attention to detail and it is not something I have come across in any of our other books. I just received the instructor's manual in the mail yesterday and haven't had the time to sit w/ it. I am a little concerned b/c the used text that I bought was advertised as the 12 ed but ended up being the 10th. The IM is the 12th. I'm not sure how closely they are going to match. :tongue_smilie: I am not going to complain too much though b/c the used text is hard-covered and almost like new and I pd very little for it. If I have to buy another ed, it will have been worth it b/c I know I really like the book. Wow, you have the teacher's manual??? How is it? Where did you find it? I'm not sure I need it, but maybe it would be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I received this in the mail a few days ago and have been going through it. It is wonderful. Thank you for the recommendation. I think this will work really well w/my dd. Yay! We are really enjoying it - well I am moreso than ds, but that's because he is a science guy. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2read Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm just starting to prepare for our summer poetry study and am wondering what you ended up using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfamily Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I needed to share that I recently found Perrine's Sound and Sense: An Introduction to Poetry at a thrift store and couldn't believe the timing!:lol: I really like it a lot better than The Grammar of Poetry and, best of all, my dd really likes it too. So, this is going to be our book for the study of poetry too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2read Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 kfamily, another poster mentioned getting the teacher's manual. Do you feel there is a need for that or is there enough information in the book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfamily Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Dd and I haven't started this book yet. I just picked it up a couple of weeks ago. With my knowledge base, I would think the Teacher's Manual would be very helpful...but I will probably try to manage without it. I expect that many here might not need the extra help...:001_smile: There are 3 parts: Part 1 The Elements of Poetry Part 2 Writing about Poetry Part 3 Poems for Further Reading I really like this book for several reasons with the discussion/analysis type questions following every poem, one part being devoted to the how to write poetry and the large number and variety of poems included being my top reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinL in Canada Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I've created my own poetry courses by pulling together assorted materials (love teaching poetry), but Sound and Sense is a great resource/ text for poetry study (if you don't mind not having answers to the questions--though I recall that Sonlight produced an answer key one year. They may still do so). Haven't seen The Art of Poetry from Classical Academic Press, but I have also used parts of Introduction to Poetry: Forms and Elements from Progeny Press and liked it quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I just received the instructor's manual in the mail yesterday and haven't had the time to sit w/ it. I am a little concerned b/c the used text that I bought was advertised as the 12 ed but ended up being the 10th. The IM is the 12th. I'm not sure how closely they are going to match. :tongue_smilie: I didn't know there was an Instructor's Manual! Is it worth getting? I have a few old Sound & Sense books and the big lit book (all dump/thrift store finds.) What is in the IM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I didn't know there was an Instructor's Manual! Is it worth getting? I have a few old Sound & Sense books and the big lit book (all dump/thrift store finds.) What is in the IM? We just finished our Shakespeare study on Saturday (w/a production of Much Ado About Nothing.) We have just started our poetry unit this week. I have actually opted to use the Art of Poetry b/c we are reading Marmion simultaneously and dd is only in 7th grade. I'm going to hold off on Sound and Sense until next yr. (I really like them both. Art is less intense than S &S) Here is the info on the IM: http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Perrine%92s+Sound+and+Sense+Instructor%92s+Manual/043484/82f47aa17bfbfa3cc2bb6a1e?subject=6&category=1476 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2read Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks for the link and update. How did the American Shakespeare Center guides work out with the group? Would you use them again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RachLearningMatters Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 The Shared Poetry Project — inspired by this John Merrow blog entry: http://takingnote.learningmatters.tv/?p=5454 — we'd like to invite public school students to film community members reciting lines of poetry, then edit the readings into a video for the Learning Matters YouTube channel. This exciting project provides students the opportunity to develop or strengthen real-world skills of teamwork, quality control, and production. It also can introduce the 80% of Americans who do not have school-aged children to the remarkable abilities of our youth. Not to mention exposes them to some great poetry! Project Guidelines may be found here: http://bit.ly/xp2Jgz A great project for National Poetry Month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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