X-post My DS needs reading help!

[southernm]

This is my first post on this forum. I didn't put this in the other post, but just a few details: My DS 6 is a *different* kind of child. His vocabulary and understanding of concepts is very high. He is very sensitive, especially to world events/news. Lord help us all if another asteroid comes close to earth. He has horrible self esteem and is a perfectionist. He develops phobias on occasion that last for weeks to months (i.e. parking lots, nail clippings, the dark, tornados etc). He his also very anxious. He had great trouble with fine motor skills and until a few months ago refused to pick up a pencil, much less do an art project. Toward the end of the summer when school was about to start he became more volatile. He nearly punched my DH. DH was aggravating him and pretended like DS was in trouble. DS was so upset when he realized DH was kidding with him that DS threw a punch that thankfully missed. He also started to bang his head when he got angry. After two weeks of PS I pulled him out to HS. I was in the process of having a full educational psych evaluation that was going to cost me $3,000! After a few weeks at home, all his anger seemed to disappear and he has truly become a different child. So, at this time I decided not to test. Here is the thread I posted in the K-8 forum. I'm looking for any help!

 

 

 

DS 6 is struggling with reading/phonics and spelling.

 

In reading, he can sound individual words out, but when reading in context he will often replace a word with a random "guess" that is not even phonologically close. Like today he read in a sentence the word "dog" but the word he was supposed to read was "dad". The word "dog" was on his spelling test today so one would assume he knew that the word "dad" was not "dog". When sounding out words, he often reads the word from right to left. I was doing OPGTR around lesson 60 but after his frustrations (and mine) I moved him back to 30. He would much rather memorize the word and use picture clues than actually sound anything out. At the higher lessons, he could sound the words out but when they were put into context he acted like he had never seen them before. He does this in the easier lessons too. He read the word "man" three different times. He came to it a fourth time and had to sound it out again. I have ETC waiting for me to pick up at the post office today so fingers crossed this will help.

 

In spelling, he can copy words beautifully all week long. He can use them in the workbook and read them (SWO). BUT when it comes time for the test, he's a wreck. He reverses letters (common I know), he has to sit and think about each word at least 5 min before writing anything, and he has to sound it out. It's like he's never seen it before, or doesn't trust his memory to actually write the first thing that comes to mind. I wanted to do spelling with him because where I taught, it is started in first grade. I can't imagine how on earth he would pass a test if he was in ps.

 

He *is* a perfectionist and has other quirks. Any advice at all would be so greatly appreciated!

[Guest lara916]

This is my first post on this forum. I didn't put this in the other post, but just a few details: My DS 6 is a *different* kind of child. His vocabulary and understanding of concepts is very high. He is very sensitive, especially to world events/news. Lord help us all if another asteroid comes close to earth. He has horrible self esteem and is a perfectionist. He develops phobias on occasion that last for weeks to months (i.e. parking lots, nail clippings, the dark, tornados etc). He his also very anxious. He had great trouble with fine motor skills and until a few months ago refused to pick up a pencil, much less do an art project. Toward the end of the summer when school was about to start he became more volatile. He nearly punched my DH. DH was aggravating him and pretended like DS was in trouble. DS was so upset when he realized DH was kidding with him that DS threw a punch that thankfully missed. He also started to bang his head when he got angry. After two weeks of PS I pulled him out to HS. I was in the process of having a full educational psych evaluation that was going to cost me $3,000! After a few weeks at home, all his anger seemed to disappear and he has truly become a different child. So, at this time I decided not to test. Here is the thread I posted in the K-8 forum. I'm looking for any help!

 

 

 

DS 6 is struggling with reading/phonics and spelling.

 

In reading, he can sound individual words out, but when reading in context he will often replace a word with a random "guess" that is not even phonologically close. Like today he read in a sentence the word "dog" but the word he was supposed to read was "dad". The word "dog" was on his spelling test today so one would assume he knew that the word "dad" was not "dog". When sounding out words, he often reads the word from right to left. I was doing OPGTR around lesson 60 but after his frustrations (and mine) I moved him back to 30. He would much rather memorize the word and use picture clues than actually sound anything out. At the higher lessons, he could sound the words out but when they were put into context he acted like he had never seen them before. He does this in the easier lessons too. He read the word "man" three different times. He came to it a fourth time and had to sound it out again. I have ETC waiting for me to pick up at the post office today so fingers crossed this will help.

 

In spelling, he can copy words beautifully all week long. He can use them in the workbook and read them (SWO). BUT when it comes time for the test, he's a wreck. He reverses letters (common I know), he has to sit and think about each word at least 5 min before writing anything, and he has to sound it out. It's like he's never seen it before, or doesn't trust his memory to actually write the first thing that comes to mind. I wanted to do spelling with him because where I taught, it is started in first grade. I can't imagine how on earth he would pass a test if he was in ps.

 

He *is* a perfectionist and has other quirks. Any advice at all would be so greatly appreciated!

 

This sounds EXACTLY like my 8 year old daughter with ADHD and dyslexia at the same age. She figured out Rayleigh scattering (just by reasoning it out in her mind) last year. Once when she was about 6 we had some elders (missionaries) come to our door and she was so nervous that she came right up to me and bit the inside of my thigh so hard it bruised.

 

She was doing the same things as your son when it came to reading and just 3 months ago I feared she still wouldn't read fluently this year. You wouldn't believe the tremendous advances the has made since then. Her handwriting, reading fluency etc.. has all improved greatly. For reversals we used Correcting Reversals (link below) along with Handwriting Without Tears. She still has reversals on days where she is tired or feeling ill but they happen less and less.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0742401626/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1/188-0075432-8000112?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=0E19JYPGZC0SENAX8AY0&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_i=0982221134

 

I bought some EZC readers for her and they have been awesome. She went from inserting words and skipping around on the page to being much more focused. I got a ton of these when I purchased from here so I can gladly post you one if you'd like.

 

http://www.reallygoodstuff.com/product/ezc+reader+blue.do?sortby=ourPicks

 

As far as the word guesses, like saying dog instead of dad I would say that it is pretty normal at that age. The same with the doubting himself on simple words like man, or cat that he already knows them. Even just 6 months ago my daughter still did that from time to time and now she is reading worlds like "cloak" and "wonderful" without any issues so I wouldn't be too concerned.

 

Sit with him and alternate reading paragraphs, and he will see the words and make the connection. Follow along with your finger and stop every once in awhile to ask him questions about what he read,"That's so silly, why do you think the Dad did that?" in order to see what his comprehension is and reinforce what was read.

 

I am certain that over time you will see that most of these changing of words have more to do with his anticipating (guessing) based on what he already knows. Speed readers do the same thing.

 

I'm interested in hearing other thoughts on this too. Perhaps these issues are unique to being dyslexic. I hope that helps!

 

~Lara

Edited November 11, 2011 by lara916

[southernm]

Thank you so much. It's a relief to hear someone have a successful experience. I'm going to order the reversals book. I guess I just have put off thinking dyslexia because I thought reversals were developmental until third grade. After reading symptoms of dyslexia though, I have to say they are a fit. His current reversals are b, d, e's are upside down sometimes, s, h, and j. Is that normal? I didn't realize fine motor problems were a sign too. I am trying to figure out how to have him assessed but I'm not having much luck. I'm going to research here (Ontario), and in the Detroit area since that is where we go when we need to shop etc. There is a Lakeshore Learning store close to where we will be staying for Thanksgiving. I'm hoping to pick up some of the reading cards then!

Edited November 11, 2011 by southernm

[ZooRho]

I didn't do any real spelling until much later,

they did do some "spelling" in the course of the phonics but I didn't start any formal spelling until late 2nd/3rd grade. For my oldest he ended up being a natural speller.

 

Youngest, hmm I think he is just a bit lazy when it comes to spelling.

 

I think you need to relax a bit more with your son.

[Guest lara916]

Thank you so much. It's a relief to hear someone have a successful experience. I'm going to order the reversals book. I guess I just have put off thinking dyslexia because I thought reversals were developmental until third grade. After reading symptoms of dyslexia though, I have to say they are a fit. His current reversals are b, d, e's are upside down sometimes, s, h, and j. Is that normal? I didn't realize fine motor problems were a sign too. I am trying to figure out how to have him assessed but I'm not having much luck. I'm going to research here (Ontario), and in the Detroit area since that is where we go when we need to shop etc. There is a Lakeshore Learning store close to where we will be staying for Thanksgiving. I'm hoping to pick up some of the reading cards then!

 

You're welcome! You may want to check out Reading by colors, by Helen Irlen or similar websites about reading w/ color films. There are flashcards that help as well but I cannot recall what website I found them on, if I do I will let you know.

 

eta: my daughters reversals were b,d, p, q, g, j and sometimes S now it's mostly just b, d, and p and only on days when she is really tired or feeling under the weather. I believe that I read that reversals are developmentally normal up until age 7

Edited November 11, 2011 by lara916

[merry gardens]

This is my first post on this forum. ... He would much rather memorize the word and use picture clues than actually sound anything out. At the higher lessons, he could sound the words out but when they were put into context he acted like he had never seen them before. He does this in the easier lessons too. He read the word "man" three different times. He came to it a fourth time and had to sound it out again. I have ETC waiting for me to pick up at the post office today so fingers crossed this will help.

 

In spelling, he can copy words beautifully all week long. He can use them in the workbook and read them (SWO). BUT when it comes time for the test, he's a wreck. He reverses letters (common I know), he has to sit and think about each word at least 5 min before writing anything, and he has to sound it out. It's like he's never seen it before, or doesn't trust his memory to actually write the first thing that comes to mind. ...

Hello and welcome to the special needs forum. :seeya:There are many wonderful mothers on this board that have gone through a lot to help our children learn to read and spell. I'm sure others will chime in to share their thoughts.

 

Here are some thoughts that stood out to me as I read what you wrote:

1) For many children with dyslexia, sounding words out is very difficult because they don't process the individual sounds within words. Phonological awareness and phonemic awareness can be built through some special programs and that helps make phonics easier.

 

2) When phonics is difficult (because of what I wrote above or other reasons), some people turn to sight words. Most people can't memorize enough words to get through 12 years of school, so dyslexia often doesn't get diagnosed until later. Many dyslexics are able to "hide" their reading problems for a while by simply memorizing words by sight and guessing at words based on pictures or prior knowlege of a subject. The warning signs often appear earlier if you know what to look for--and from what your wrote, I'm seeing some of the warning signs.

 

3) Some people have trouble learning words by sight. Poor memory for what words looks for sometimes only shows up in spelling, but other times it shows up in reading too. Some may still not recognize a word after having seen it 100 times.

 

4) Some dyslexics have problems with learning both phonics and words by sight.

 

If your son is prone to being a perfectionist, you might want to take a very methodical approach, and given some of what your wrote, I suggest you look at Orton-Gillingham methods to teach him reading and spelling. O-G is a well research, very methodical approach that works for people with dyslexia, (but it works for other people too.) Here is the O-G program that I use. http://bartonreading.com/ There's a great student screening on that weblink that can help identify more significant phonological processing problems. (There are several other O-G programs too, like Wilson.) Before I could start Barton, my son needed a portion of this program http://www.ganderpublishing.com/LiPS.html I have since then used several other products by Lindamood-Bell, which is another good resource for materials for people with reading and spelling problems.

[Walking-Iris]

I use Sequential Spelling with my ds. That's why I was confused that you seemed to think it a problem that he was sounding out words to spell because that's exactly what I've taught my son to do---eventually that word is internalized and no longer needing to be broken into phonological parts.

 

Also Sequential Spelling does away with memorizing words for a "test" later. Which is really helpful in easing the anxiety factor of learning to spell. We can just concentrate on learning without worry about some "thing" we need to "do good on" later.

 

The replacing of dog with dad etc is pretty typical while learning to read. It's natural to scan the picture or ahead or below to get an idea of what the word could be. Whenever my son would misread a word I would just say "oh excuse me--let's look at this word closer." And then I would help him sound it out. Using our fingers to isolate the parts.

 

My advice would be to get an evaluation---maybe from an OT--to help with some of the other things you mentioned. Integrate some sensory activities into your day and focus on reading before spelling and to try to find a more friendly spelling program.

[wapiti]

In addition to testing for dyslexia, I'd rule out additional vision/vision processing issues by visiting a developmental optometrist. It seems not terribly unusual to have both.

[southernm]

I use Sequential Spelling with my ds. That's why I was confused that you seemed to think it a problem that he was sounding out words to spell because that's exactly what I've taught my son to do---eventually that word is internalized and no longer needing to be broken into phonological parts.

 

I guess in my mind, if he has practiced a list of 6 words all week long, he shouldn't have to sound it out to spell it! I'm using OPGTR as his main phonics instruction. For spelling, my goal was to mainly expose him to more words and writing. I think I have decided to take a :chillpill: and reflect on what the issues are. I do have an optometrist I'm going to set an appointment up with and go from there!

[PeterPan]

Just so you know, wapiti was recommending a *developmental* optometrist, which is different from a regular, run-of-the-mill optometrist. A developmental optometrist looks for additional things (how the eyes work together, converge, focus, depth perception, etc.). I was just reading that 80% of children with LD's will turn out also to have vision problems. I had *two* regular optometrists miss my dd's problems before the developmental optometrist caught them. If you're going to pay for an exam, I'd get it with the developmental optometrist and be done with it. You go to http://www.covd.org to find one.

[Ottakee]

For reading, I really like the I See Sam books from http://www.3rsplus.com or http://www.iseesam.com Used with the cursor or notched card they really work on eliminating guessing. Stories are cute but the kids have to read the words, they can't "read" the pictures.

 

For Spelling I really like Apples and Pears. I might wait a bit on that but the good thing about that program is there are NO tests, no wordlists, etc. just daily practice with spelling that STICKS.