Worried about my 4th grader being behind!

[JulieH]

I'm so worried about my 9 year old son (almost 10) being behind. His old Montessori teacher is coming twice weekly and doing Right Start math and he is thriving in that.

 

He seems to be doing ok with reading. He can answer comprehension questions.

 

He gets VERY exaccerbated when I ask him for verbal narration. Copywork is really difficult. I just ask him to do ONE line. Just one. I can't tell if he's not capable of doing it neatly, or he just hates writing that much. He will not slow down and do it slowly.

 

I cannot say to him "write a sentence" or a paragraph. I believe he has some processing problems.

 

He does have aspergers and question of an auditory processing.

 

I've been reading about graphic organizers and how he should be using them. I am not even sure that *I* understand what they are??

 

I feel like he should be able to do more and take more responsibility and because he gets so upset and down on himself, it's interfering with our school work.

 

We haven't done anything with spelling yet. I'm trying to get into All About Spelling but just can't seem to get into it. I wonder if we should try Spelling Workout?

[Momling]

I try not to think about my kids in terms of being ahead or behind... unless you're thinking of putting him in school, it doesn't matter too much. What does matter, very much, is that he is improving in his skills.

 

I would focus on doing a very little bit, but doing it daily and with consistency. If he has a tutor in math twice a week, that's great... but is he doing math the other days? If not, I'd have him do a little bit each day. Even just a page, or maybe a few problems... or even just a single problem if that's where he's at.

 

Same with spelling. I'm not sure about AAS, but I would encourage you to be certain that even if he does a little bit, he does it daily. AAS may be awesome, but if it's not getting done, it's useless. Same with dictation and any other subject that you feel is important.

 

I'd forget about 'graphic organizers'. It's just a trendy term that educators use to talk about ways to help kids understand content material that they read. It's nothing magical... it's just jargon and common sense.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

 

He gets VERY exaccerbated when I ask him for verbal narration. Copywork is really difficult. I just ask him to do ONE line. Just one. I can't tell if he's not capable of doing it neatly, or he just hates writing that much. He will not slow down and do it slowly.

 

I cannot say to him "write a sentence" or a paragraph. I believe he has some processing problems.

 

 

This sounds similar to my 8 yr. old Aspie. Some days, he really just doesn't want to write anything. Unless it's about Star Wars, or Pokemon, or his own made up comic book.

[J9Mommy]

Ha, I knew you were describing an aspie right away.

 

I am not sure if Handwriting without Tears would be good or not at this point.

 

My aspie, use to get stressed about writing until I backed off. I got him excited with making his own books. Like pp mentioned, he likes to make comic books.

 

He even makes his own Lego games and then writes out directions.

 

Find ways to get him writing without thinking about it. Copy work suck, IMO.

 

Have you looked at Explode the Code ? My son likes it. I am also trying Spellwell this year ( same company). I almost bought AAS, but decided not to.

[....]

I'm not sure if any of my experiences in this department will help you, but you're definitely not alone.

 

For spelling, we tried numerous spelling programs (including SWO) and I will never buy a spelling program again. ;) My kids hated every spelling program we used...also, their spelling was awful and it was like they weren't retaining anything - just filling in the blanks.

 

I got a dry erase board, a list of the 1,000 most frequently written words and the Webster's Speller (the old one that you can print off the internet for free). We've been doing spelling like this for 5 months now and there has been a dramatic improvement in their spelling/writing.

 

My son also went thru a phase (that lasted several years) where he wouldn't write anything without crying/negotiating. Someone on the forums suggested making writing somehow interesting. I think they used a comic book example. You could have him make his own comic book. We accidentally got our son writing a lot. He read the Diary of a Wimpy Kid series and decided that he wanted to keep a diary, too. I didn't think he would write in it, but we bought him a diary. He's got maybe 70-80 pages written in his diary, complete with drawings of himself :biggrinjester: doing handstands on his bed, fighting with his sister, holding the guinea pig, riding his bike...

 

I'm not sure if any of those suggestion will help. With our 8 yro and 6 yro, I really have to think outside the box...and I've found that just teaching them directly with a dry-erase board has good results. So, we've really steered away from curriculum this year. I hope you get some good advice!

[Way2blessed]

This sounds exactly like my nine year old aspie. He reads wonderfully, can do the toughest of word problems, but can't write or spell to save his life. He also cannot remember math facts, even though we have been working on multiplication now for two years. We recently took two weeks off for a trip, and before the trip I was finally thinking that he had mastered multiplication. But a two week break put him right back at the beginning again. *sigh* Nothing helpful to add, but look forward to seeing replies to this thread.

[Pat in MI]

Well not all kids learn the same or at the same speed. My kids learn differently but one thing they both have needed in the narration and writing area was a lot of guidance from me. Neither of them could just come up with a paragraph without ideas and guidance. For narration be very specific about what you want. I was never able to say tell me about what I just read. I had to say tell me what you learned about Christopher Columbus' voyage or even more specific if necessary. With writing I am using an Evan-Moor book called Paragraph Writing Grades 2-4 right now with my 5th grader. My aim is for her to have knowledge of what a paragraph is - the proper set up (indent the first sentence, all sentences begin with a capital, 3-5 sentences with a topic sentence) I am taking it very slowly with her. I think after she is very comfortable writing the paragraphs from the book she will easily take off in her writing. Then we will move into an imitations type program. (Imitations in Writing book this year and hopefully, Writing with Success next year)

 

My son (now a 10th grader) was even slower in learning to write, but last year in school he had several long papers he had to write and did well with them. He did eventually learn the process of writing. It sometimes takes a lot of time, but as long as they progress each year they are never behind. It is sometimes hard to take them where they are and not compare to others or to what schools are doing, but boy can that be detrimental to yourself and the child. Ask me how I know? :eek:

 

Take your time and try not to worry. :grouphug:

Blessings,

Pat

 

P.S. graphic organizers never helped my ds with writing. They only confused him more. He couldn't pull the stuff off the organizer and put it into a paragraph. The program that helped him the most was Imitations in Writing.

[JulieH]

He has done lots of comics and even written in a diary. He LOVES the Diary of a Wimpy Kid series.

 

The problem is, he writes terribly messy. I don't know how important it is that he work on his penmanship? I don't expect him to have beautiful writing. I think I've pretty much resigned myself to that. But he is just careless and sloppy with it. Puts in NO effort.

 

He needs to learn to write legibly. He does have OT weekly also.

 

I'm wondering if I should also introduce a typing program and have him type narrations and compositions?

 

I don't know if he's going to go to school in the future or not. I'd like to have him sort of at grade level in case.

 

On the other hand, I'd like to throw off that pressure and just let him go at his own pace!

 

Is he too old to have still practicing letters from a penmanship book?

[Pat in MI]

No, he is not too old for a penmanship book, but if he is like my son they may never perfect handwriting. My ds never felt comfortable with cursive and while his printing is legible it isn't real neat. I would definitely teach your son typing. That is a skill they will use and it will make grading papers so much easier. :)

Blessings,

Pat

[MerryAtHope]

I'd just let go and let him go at his own pace. I don't think the pressure of trying to push him ahead quickly will help him learn or you teach. He may go through a jump naturally at some point and then be at level, or maybe not. Don't try to control that, just keep working and moving at his pace.

 

Is the OT for dysgraphia? The messy handwriting and struggles with copywork suggest the possibility of dysgraphia and/or possibly a vision processing issue. Have you ever looked at www.covd.org? Copywork for students who struggle with either of these is very difficult. Yes, even 1 line.

 

I don't think he's too old to focus on letter formation--in fact, in my daughter's 4th grade year, I spent quite a bit of time focusing just on letter formation (because unfortunately I'd let her do too much handwriting unsupervised when she was younger and had bad habits to unteach!). Have you looked at or used Handwriting without tears? Their methods are very helpful for letter formation.

 

You mentioned having AAS but struggling to get into it, is that something we can help with? The first few steps are a bit different than the rest of the series--once you get to step 6 and beyond you can kind of get a rhythm going. Maybe there are ways we can help you adapt it? It's very helpful for kids with the kinds of issues you are describing, and it includes a nice, gradual writing progression that you might find especially helpful (from letters to words to 2 word phrases in Level 1, dictation phrases and sentences in level 2, up to 12 dictation sentences in Level 3, and then it adds in the writing station where kids start writing some of their own sentences. After that point is a good time to start a writing program--you've built up stamina, fluidity through the dictations, and a good set of basic spelling words--the task becomes more doable).

 

Merry :-)

[Angel]

I'm so worried about my 9 year old son (almost 10) being behind. His old Montessori teacher is coming twice weekly and doing Right Start math and he is thriving in that.

 

He seems to be doing ok with reading. He can answer comprehension questions.

 

He gets VERY exaccerbated when I ask him for verbal narration. Copywork is really difficult. I just ask him to do ONE line. Just one. I can't tell if he's not capable of doing it neatly, or he just hates writing that much. He will not slow down and do it slowly.

 

I cannot say to him "write a sentence" or a paragraph. I believe he has some processing problems.

 

He does have aspergers and question of an auditory processing.

 

 

I feel like he should be able to do more and take more responsibility and because he gets so upset and down on himself, it's interfering with our school work.

 

We haven't done anything with spelling yet. I'm trying to get into All About Spelling but just can't seem to get into it. I wonder if we should try Spelling Workout?

 

My aspie is getting ready to turn 17 next month, so I have a little bit of experience here :001_smile: I can tell you what worked for us and though there is no "right" answer across the board with aspies, maybe it will help a little.

 

I started homeschooling her in 5th grade. Handwriting was atrocious. We did one year of Handwriting Without Tears cursive book. It was a slow process as I only had her do half a page at a time to not tire her hand AND to build the "I can do it" attitude. Her handwriting is still not beautiful but the slow and steady work through the book did improve not only her cursive handwriting but her print as well. I did not require a lot of handwriting from her, even after it improved. We did as much as possible orally or on a whiteboard. Dd was very relieved when she began to learn to type.

 

Writing, what a nightmare!! I tried so many different programs and ideas. Finally, I backed way off. Dd did very little writing. What I found out when I did this was that she actually likes to write creatively. She just can't do it about a subject. Tell her to write a paragraph or an essay and she is blindsided, can't pull the thoughts together. Honestly, we are still working on this. It is still a struggle years later. Many aspies are behind in writing.

 

Mid 6th grade we let formal spelling go. I realized that dd could memorize and get 100% on each test but 15 minutes later spell the same word incorrectly in another subject. We tried to keep a list of her misspelled words and go over these. We then moved on to vocabulary. I use AAS for my younger dd and love it but I don't know how older dd would have liked it. She is definitely more straightforward and doesn't like anything that resembles busywork. She is a "get it done" kind of gal.

 

You said you would like him to do more and take more responsibility. I can only say that I think that that is a little unreasonable for an aspie in 4th grade. I tried doing that with my dd for a couple years before again backing off. All it did was make the two of us miserable. She wasn't ready for that on so many levels. I didn't see the glimmer of independent work/responsiblity until 9th grade. In 11th she was getting the hang of managing her list of subjects herself and this year she is doing very well.

 

Don't despair! :grouphug: It certainly is a challenge trying to meet all these needs. I would encourage you to let go of worrying about if he is "behind." I would pick one thing to work on at a time and when that one thing is going better, slowly add another. Trying to fix all of it at once might just be too much to process for him. Think about the positives, he is doing great in math and has good reading comprehension! That is two major subjects there that he IS doing well at. I remember so well being where you are!! I finally came to the conclusion that slow and steady progress is the best thing. Take a deep breath, it will be ok.

[Mommamia]

My son (also 9 almost 10) balks heavily at writing. Over the years I've tried everything. He still can barely copy down 2 sentences without going into meltdown mode. And he is not behind in anything. I started letting him type writing assignments. I still require some sort of daily penmanship practice, but anything that can be done on the computer aside from that I let him do it. It has helped a lot.

 

:iagree: