Growing with grammar vs. Rod & staff english

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I am having a hard time teaching with r&s english 3. I feel like I am jumping around and flipping pages constantly. I just can't seem to find a flow with it. Should I keep going and it will hopefully click eventually or should I jump ship and try growing with grammar ( I hear such good things about this one).

For some background.

My son is in 3rd grade and this is our first year of "formal" grammar. We did Emma Serls primary language lessons last year (the first half)

[NittanyJen]

I have R&S 3 and GWG5, so I have the feel for both.

 

But first... More. What is it about R&S3 that makes you feel as if you have to flip around in the pages? It will be had to know whether GWG addresses those concerns without understanding this.

[Ellie]

I am having a hard time teaching with r&s english 3. I feel like I am jumping around and flipping pages constantly. I just can't seem to find a flow with it. Should I keep going and it will hopefully click eventually or should I jump ship and try growing with grammar ( I hear such good things about this one).

Why are you jumping around and flipping pages?:confused::confused::confused:

[robsiew]

I've used (and still use both). For me, it has less to do with me as a teacher and more to do with kids and how they learn.

 

I love R&S and use it with my older two. We use it very independently. They read the student book and either do their assignment that I give them, or we go over it together if it's a brand new topic. I only use my teacher's guide when I need the answers to correct their work.

 

My younger two use GWG. My youngest because he's in 1st grade and I don't even think R&S has 1st grade and I'm not fond of 2nd grade R&S. He'll transition to R&S in 3rd.

 

My middle ds uses GWG and will continue using GWG because copying is difficult for him. He does great just filling in blanks. So, GWG works well for him.

 

I too am curious why you need to flip around all over. For us, it's pretty straightforward and I think both programs are good.

[Guest]

I am currently using R&S 3 with my dd. I have also used it with my oldest ds. I have never done any jumping around or flipping pages in the textbook. R&S 1-3 are my favorites out of the series. I think they are wonderful for this age. Can you go into more detail about what is frustrating you?

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I am currently using R&S 3 with my dd. I have also used it with my oldest ds. I have never done any jumping around or flipping pages in the textbook. R&S 1-3 are my favorites out of the series. I think they are wonderful for this age. Can you go into more detail about what is frustrating you?

 

Many of you seem confused as to why I am jumping around. I think the biggest reason for this is that I don't know if I am supposed to be teaching from the teacher book or student book at what time. I can't get a flow for how the lesson should go. For instance, I know I should start with the review. So we do. Then I usually have my son read the section in this student book, then I look back to the teacher book at the "class" section and from this point I get lost on what we are supposed to do when and in what order. I will start to explain something he has already read in his book or something to that effect. Does this make more sense? I am just trying to figure out how the lessons are set up. Do I do review, then class, then student book, then can you do this activities? Or do we do everything in the TM and then my son goes on to the student book? Does that explain more of what I am frustrated about? For explanation sake could we look at lesson 4 in R&S 3?

[Ellie]

Many of you seem confused as to why I am jumping around. I think the biggest reason for this is that I don't know if I am supposed to be teaching from the teacher book or student book at what time. I can't get a flow for how the lesson should go. For instance, I know I should start with the review. So we do. Then I usually have my son read the section in this student book, then I look back to the teacher book at the "class" section and from this point I get lost on what we are supposed to do when and in what order. I will start to explain something he has already read in his book or something to that effect. Does this make more sense? I am just trying to figure out how the lessons are set up. Do I do review, then class, then student book, then can you do this activities? Or do we do everything in the TM and then my son goes on to the student book? Does that explain more of what I am frustrated about? For explanation sake could we look at lesson 4 in R&S 3?

 

I'll take a stab at this. :-)

 

The oral classtime in the TM is optional. You can skip that completely and just use the TM for checking your dc's work. Everything children need to know is in their books.

 

If you do the oral work with your dc (which I think could be important if for no other reason than that it adds some warm-fuzzy face time), you can choose to do the Written Quiz at the beginning of the TM. If you don't, then go to the section that starts with "Class." Do that with your dc (if possible; some things might not lend themselves as well to one child as they do to a classroom). Then you assign the written assignments (you can tell what those are), letting your dc skip the reading at the beginning of the lesson.

 

Does this help?

[robsiew]

Another way is doing it where you just go over the student book with the child. I have felt no need to use the Teacher's guide at all for teaching. Everything they need to know is in the student book. I think that makes it simple to use. We only do a few oral exercises to make sure the child understands, then he/she works independently on whatever written assignment I give for that lesson. I correct it and we go over any mistakes.

[Guest]

Many of you seem confused as to why I am jumping around. I think the biggest reason for this is that I don't know if I am supposed to be teaching from the teacher book or student book at what time. I can't get a flow for how the lesson should go. For instance, I know I should start with the review. So we do. Then I usually have my son read the section in this student book, then I look back to the teacher book at the "class" section and from this point I get lost on what we are supposed to do when and in what order. I will start to explain something he has already read in his book or something to that effect. Does this make more sense? I am just trying to figure out how the lessons are set up. Do I do review, then class, then student book, then can you do this activities? Or do we do everything in the TM and then my son goes on to the student book? Does that explain more of what I am frustrated about? For explanation sake could we look at lesson 4 in R&S 3?

 

Okay, thanks. I teach the Oral Review first. I think this helps cement things in their heads and I think review is very important. My son can still recall things taught in the third/fourth grade texts (he is now in fifth grade) because of all the review. Then, we do class time (which includes board work in lesson 4). Lastly, we open to the lesson in the student text and dd (two years ago, ds) reads the lesson aloud while I follow along in the TM to check for accuracy. I feel like this is a great time to have oral reading. We do separate reading, but I don't always get to hear them read aloud during that time (as they like to read their stories on their own). Having them read the lesson aloud takes care of that issue for me. Overall, teaching time for English is not very long. I would say 15 minutes tops.

 

After this, they begin independent work. For lesson 4 this would be Recognizing and Writing Sentences and Review and Practice. Once finished, it is put in their folder for completed assignments, and at the end of the school day, the folder is turned in for me to grade their work. HTH!

[NittanyJen]

Okay, I think you're making this harder than it needs to be.

 

You already have some great suggestions to mull over. Here's my approach. You can try out a few and choose the one that works best for you and your child.

 

I have the 3rd grade TM, but don't need it often. We open the textbook together, review briefly what we talked about in the last lesson. Then we start the lesson in the student texbook and go through it pretty much in order. Sometimes they are too easy and repetitive for his ability level, and I skip a few exercises here and there. Sometimes I like how they word things and we read their lessons together. Other times, I paraphrase and explain the concept in my own words. Many times, we do the exercises orally. Sometimes we do them on a white board-- Target sold a fantastic one this year for $2 that he loves-- blank on one side, primary lined (3 lined) on the other.

 

If I want additional background on a topic or want to double check myself on an occasional answer, out comes the TM.

 

As a PP said, all of this takes about 10-15 minutes for a lesson. Sometimes I will combine two lessons if the two topics are really close together and he just "gets" the topic already. If there is a related workbook exercise, he then does it on his own.

 

This works for my son-- so far he scores 100% or close to it on all tests (publisher supplied; we started our school year in May) and his grammar as applied in speech and writing is consistently good for an 8YO, particularly one with an expressive language disorder-- in many cases, you would never know. To me, that accomplishment speaks volumes, as it used to be very evident when he was in PS.

 

Good luck. I think several of the approaches different posters are suggesting are good. You will find what works for you. I would advise trying a few different ways of working with the curriculum you have before jumping ship; you may find that it is your approach rather than the curriculum.

 

If that does not work-- then you may like Growing With Grammar. It is very straightforward, and no TM to distract you (there is an answer key available); remember that R&S was written for classroom, not homeschool, use. Many (not all) homeschoolers like R&S because it is a strong grammar program.

 

The GWG textbook is written to the student and is very economically, but clearly, presented. The writing requirements for the student are much less; if you are using a separate writing and spelling program, this may be a plus (we are; it is one reason why I do not require my son to write out everything in R&S). GWG still includes diagramming and is also quite complete from what I can see in terms of presenting grammar itself.

 

Good luck to you!

[coffeegal]

Here's how a R&S lesson works with my 3rd grade son. We sit down at the table. I open my R&S TM to lesson 4 and instruct my son to do the same. While he is flipping through the pages trying to find the lesson, I run through the oral review with him. At this point he's usually still trying to find the lesson and goofing off just a bit. I give him a pointed look, remind him to turn to lesson 4, and take a quick glance through lesson as it appears on the student's page. I read through the lesson with him. Ds follows along in the student book, while I read the lesson from the TM. I ignore the sections titled Class and Aim. Once we've read through the lesson together, I emphasis the Remember box and have him read it out loud for me. We run through exercise A together orally, then I assign him to write the answers to B, and complete the review and practice. I stay nearby to check his work after every problem or two. He can get sloppy if left to his own devices. :001_smile:

[joyfulhomeschooler]

You have all been most helpful. I think I was making it entirely too hard. Going to keep plugging away at it, because I do feel it is a good program and that it was just how I was implementing it that was lacking. How many grammar mistakes can you find in that last sentence lol I may need the lessons as much as him ;) Good thing there is such good curriculum these days to choose from.

Thanks!