Reinforcement for First Language Lessons?

[JulieH]

I'm starting both my 7 year old daughter and 9 year old son on FLL 2. My son is doing a little better and so far I've just done the lessons orally.

 

My daughter can't seem to grasp the difference between a proper or common noun.

 

Are there activities or pages to do to reinforce things taught? She is smart as a whip and I don't believe for a minute she doesn't get this concept. I almost feel like she's really trying my patience. This is our first week of homeschool.

 

I told myself I'd use this program. It seems as if it will be thorough and get the job done. I just am afraid if we do the lessons orally, where is the practice? Where is the paper trail? The proof that she "did the work"?

 

Is there a way to notebook with this? Should I have her write the concepts out as copywork and put them in a notebook maybe?

[Alicia64]

If I read this wrong, I apologize. . . long day and I'm sitting here w/ a glass of red wine. . . but I think a seven year old should start with FLL 1.

 

My boys are eight years and we did FLL 1 last year and are just now finishing up with FFL 2. Starting them at FLL 2 would have been a giant mistake, IMO.

 

In FFL 1 proper and common nouns are clearly taught and the kids pick it up after several lessons.

 

I would start your seven year old on FFL 1 -- and it isn't about being smart. It's about having some experience with a particular topic. In this case proper and common nouns.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Alley

[boscopup]

FLL1 does have something like 45 lessons on the subject, so that would certainly reinforce it. :D

 

But I also want to say that it is revisited every year, and it may just be a developmental thing. FLL3 practices with it, including writing things down (it has a workbook). It also has one lesson where you read a list of nouns and the child stands if it's proper and sits if it's common. He LOVED that game. The next day, he asked if we could do the previous day's lesson again. :lol:

 

FLL2 will review it multiple times also, I believe (my FLL2 is loaned out).

 

When you do copywork in other subjects, point out the common and proper nouns. That should also help - seeing them in context.

[JulieH]

If I read this wrong, I apologize. . . long day and I'm sitting here w/ a glass of red wine. . . but I think a seven year old should start with FLL 1.

 

My boys are eight years and we did FLL 1 last year and are just now finishing up with FFL 2. Starting them at FLL 2 would have been a giant mistake, IMO.

 

In FFL 1 proper and common nouns are clearly taught and the kids pick it up after several lessons.

 

I would start your seven year old on FFL 1 -- and it isn't about being smart. It's about having some experience with a particular topic. In this case proper and common nouns.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Alley

 

Well, she's second grade and the book says level 2 is second grade. However, I'm wondering if it wouldn't hurt to just start at level 1. It does seem like there are dozens of lessons on nouns in level 1! She's just been so resistant this week. She keeps saying (not just with this, but with other things too) "this is baby work". I explained to them there will be a lot of review this week. Apparantly common/proper nouns are new! LOL

[boscopup]

Well, she's second grade and the book says level 2 is second grade. However, I'm wondering if it wouldn't hurt to just start at level 1. It does seem like there are dozens of lessons on nouns in level 1! She's just been so resistant this week. She keeps saying (not just with this, but with other things too) "this is baby work". I explained to them there will be a lot of review this week. Apparantly common/proper nouns are new! LOL

 

I wouldn't normally start a 2nd grader in book 1. You can usually jump in at grade level.

 

Do you think she really does understand it and is just playing around or maybe not paying attention because it's easy? Maybe try playing with some nouns outside of the lesson and see what she really knows.

[JulieH]

I wouldn't normally start a 2nd grader in book 1. You can usually jump in at grade level.

 

Do you think she really does understand it and is just playing around or maybe not paying attention because it's easy? Maybe try playing with some nouns outside of the lesson and see what she really knows.

 

I do think she does understand it. I think she wants more writing down. Maybe I'll have her copy the part she's supposed to recite and I'll have her make lists? Or she can write her answers? She's dying to write in a notebook!

[boscopup]

She's dying to write in a notebook!

 

I can't even imagine what that's like! :lol:

 

Someone made a lapbook for FLL1. File is here. I don't know of one for FLL2, but maybe you could do something like that?

[JulieH]

I can't even imagine what that's like! :lol:

 

Someone made a lapbook for FLL1. File is here. I don't know of one for FLL2, but maybe you could do something like that?

 

LOL It's funny..because she (7) wants to write things..I put up the mark it map on the wall, and she's phonetically labeled all the states. I write our "plan" for the day every day on the big white board..and she wants to do it. So now I print it out and just let her write it. She does not want to do oral lessons. She wants to write them down.

 

My son..9..ugh! I asked him to write three things he learned about the Mayans on a sheet of paper. (He was quite enthusiastic when learning about them) Asking him to put 3 things on paper reduced him to tears..crying like a river. Poor kid.

 

Go figure.

[bnrmom]

How about just printing out some worksheets for her to reinforce the concept? I do this all the time with my kids. There are a ton of sites, but I usually just Google "nouns or proper nouns worksheet" and find what I'm looking for.

[Ritsumei]

I do think she does understand it. I think she wants more writing down. Maybe I'll have her copy the part she's supposed to recite and I'll have her make lists? Or she can write her answers? She's dying to write in a notebook!

 

If the silly girl wants to write, why not let her do it?:tongue_smilie: I'd even have her do it orally first, then let her write if it makes her happy. If she's asking to do more work than you'd planned, my thought would be to let her go ahead!

 

 

We're still doing FLL1, not FLL2 yet, but even though it's primarily oral for us we still will occasionally write something down to put in our notebook. I try to do something for each part of speech: we've got common & proper nouns, we're working on him doing a pronoun copywork, and we made a list of action verbs since we just started those. We're something like 54 lessons into the book, for the POS lessons, we probably have 4 pages of writing, much of that in my handwriting, since Monkey is a little young & still working on learning the letters. But if she wants to write it would probably be pretty easy to do more.:D

[Alicia64]

Well, she's second grade and the book says level 2 is second grade. However, I'm wondering if it wouldn't hurt to just start at level 1. It does seem like there are dozens of lessons on nouns in level 1! She's just been so resistant this week. She keeps saying (not just with this, but with other things too) "this is baby work". I explained to them there will be a lot of review this week. Apparently common/proper nouns are new! LOL

 

I don't at all agree with a later post that said not to start your dd in FLL 1 because she's in second grade.

 

That's silly. She needs the information. Period. Just because twelve months have elapsed doesn't mean she can just "get" the info. that is so vital in FLL 1 in quick sentences from you.

 

I'm pretty devoted to FLL. I'm a professional writer -- yes, I get paid (I'm always asked) -- and I even truly appreciate Jessie Wise's way of teaching the basics on nouns.

 

Plus there are great poems to memorize etc.

 

It's a great experience. Don't get caught up in the "but it's for first grade thing" and start on FLL 1.

 

Homeschooling is so cool because we don't have to adhere strictly to standards that inevitably leaves in the kid in the dark if they didn't get the info.

 

We moved when my boys were six and we've been "off schedule" with FLL which is why at eight yrs. we're just finishing up with FFL 2. We should be in FLL 3 right now, but big deal.

 

The info. is too valuable to skim over.

 

Alley

[Alicia64]

I wouldn't normally start a 2nd grader in book 1. You can usually jump in at grade level.

 

Not to belabor the point, but I don't agree with this comment.

 

Usually just "jumping in" means you miss valuable lessons -- with lots of homeschooling curricula.

 

Alley

[farming_mum]

Try these worksheets for added enforcement of the concepts.

 

http://www.superteacherworksheets.com/nouns.html

 

I felt that oral wasn't quite enough and my kids don't mind doing worksheets to show their Dad/Granny all the work they've done. :)

[boscopup]

Not to belabor the point, but I don't agree with this comment.

 

Usually just "jumping in" means you miss valuable lessons -- with lots of homeschooling curricula.

 

 

FLL repeats itself every single year. No, I don't think an older child needs to start with FLL1. It's not like math where basic addition/subtraction is only taught in 1st grade. FLL goes over the definitions of each part of speech again at each level.

 

And frankly, FLL1 was so easy for my 1st grader, it was a waste. It spent so long on topics that he did not need to spend that long on. A typical 1st grader (or K'er) might need to spend that amount of time, but an older or more advanced child would not need to spend that amount of time learning the topics. That is the difference between the grade levels in most grammar programs - how much time is spent on a topic. I've finally found a decent spot in FLL3 for my young 2nd grader. It is going over the same topics that FLL1 had, but going over them faster (not doing 45 lessons on proper vs. common nouns). I have FLL1, 2, and 3 in my possession. I have looked through them very thoroughly. I have used all of FLL1 (we sped through it in 4 weeks) and used half of FLL2. We are now in FLL3. I don't at all feel that we would have missed anything by starting in FLL2 or 3, except maybe a few cute poems.

 

Even SWB says that you can "jump in" to a grammar curricula at grade level usually because grammar programs repeat themselves. She says ALL can be used by 5th grade or higher students who have never had formal grammar. Since she was speaking as a representative of her mother when discussing those topics, I assume that JW would also agree that you don't have to start an older child in FLL1.

 

I wish I had started in FLL2 last year instead of 1. My son didn't like 1 because it moved so slowly. FLL2 was so much better. He was at a developmental stage where he didn't need to go that slow, so yes, he needed a higher grade program. I think the average 2nd grader could jump into FLL2 without missing anything.

 

Can you specify which topics would never be seen again that are vital to grammar knowledge? :lurk5:

[LAS in LA]

Mad Libs is a fun reinforcement once they basically understand singular and plural nouns (and common and proper), verbs, adjectives, and adverbs. You can always remind them of the definition of each while filling out the Mad Lib. Could probably use them even earlier by making it "your (mama's) turn" when it asks for a type of word they haven't learned yet. HTH!

[Alicia64]

Even SWB says that you can "jump in" to a grammar curricula at grade level usually because grammar programs repeat themselves. She says ALL can be used by 5th grade or higher students who have never had formal grammar. Since she was speaking as a representative of her mother when discussing those topics, I assume that JW would also agree that you don't have to start an older child in FLL1.

 

Can you specify which topics would never be seen again that are vital to grammar knowledge? :lurk5:

 

First, I want to say that if I've annoyed -- I'm sorry, it wasn't my intent. The OP said that her dd was having a difficult time w/ proper and common nouns -- and then added that she'd skipped FLL 1.

 

Now, if the child were ten yrs. or something . . . the idea that she could pick it up here and there makes sense, but her dd is only seven. My point is that if the dd is having trouble w/ common/proper nouns then definitely do FLL 1.

 

Also, I don't think the poems are just "cute." I think there's more to it than that. Memorizing the poems creates a sense of confidence in the child and so much more. I don't have time to detail it all out, but I think those poems are in the curriculum for more than just cute.

 

The specific lessons a seven year old should have: 3, 4 6, 7 8, 10, 11, 13, 16, 17 -- it just goes on and on. Look at the table of contents.

 

I also think the teaching stories shouldn't be missed either.

 

It's just my opinion. Yes, I'm a professional freelance writer. And, yes, I had a lousy grammar education. So that my creativity is often hampered by my horrible grammar education is a real thorn in my side. And I went to "good" schools in elite communities. (What a sad waste.)

 

I'll add that if your dd didn't have any problem then that's fine -- my response is based on the OP saying that her seven year old is struggling.

 

So, yes, this topic of really internalizing one's grammar is near and dear to my heart.

 

Alley

Edited September 11, 2011 by Alicia64

[boscopup]

First, I want to say that if I've annoyed -- I'm sorry, it wasn't my intent. The OP said that her dd was having a difficult time w/ proper and common nouns -- and then added that she'd skipped FLL 1.

 

I understand, and we're good. :) My first post in the thread did agree that if she was having problems with proper vs. common nouns, FLL1 was certainly a great way to reinforce it because of the sheer number of lessons on the topic. But later in the thread, the OP said she thinks her DD does understand it and that she's acting like this because she thinks it's "baby work". Well, if she thinks FLL2 is babyish, what is she going to think about FLL1? :001_huh:

 

Also, I don't think the poems are just "cute." I think there's more to it than that. Memorizing the poems creates a sense of confidence in the child and so much more. I don't have time to detail it all out, but I think those poems are in the curriculum for more than just cute.

I agree that memorizing poetry is a good thing, however, poetry is memorized in all 4 levels, I believe. I know we have memorized poetry so far in FLL3 - "The Land of Nod". :) So jumping into any level will get you poetry memorization. You'd only be missing specific poems, which I don't think is as important. The point is to memorize poetry. I mentioned "cute" poems because the ones in FLL1 are very cute, and some say they shouldn't be missed. ;)

 

The specific lessons a seven year old should have: 3, 4 6, 7 8, 10, 11, 13, 16, 17 -- it just goes on and on. Look at the table of contents.

 

These are all the common vs. proper nouns, which a 2nd grader (and some first graders) can get more quickly without it all being spelled out in individual lessons. The material is repeated again at each level. My son was practically rolling his eyes at the family relationships lessons. He knows what an uncle is. :tongue_smilie: I think many of those things are taught by living life with Mom and Dad (and I'm NOT a creative person that uses every moment as a teaching moment... I wasn't even planning to homeschool when my son learned about family members. We just have family members, so he learned who they are). And again, even FLL3 goes over family members ("sister" is a common noun, someone's sister "Bertha" is a proper noun). It doesn't go as deep, but again, I think most 7 year olds know family members by now. It also goes over places, animals/pets, etc. It's much more brief, but it is taught again. Not as much time is spent on it because a child that age usually doesn't need to spend as much time on it.

 

I seem to recall FLL2 spending a good chunk of time on the family relationships in one lesson again... asking who your mother's mother is, that sort of thing. So I don't think the OP's child is really "missing" the material by going into FLL2 first.

 

I also think the teaching stories shouldn't be missed either.

 

Narration? It's found in FLL2 and 3 also. :)

 

The only thing not found in FLL3 that I can think of is picture narration. I'm pretty sure that's in FLL2 though (again, my copy is loaned out right now).

 

So, yes, this topic of really internalizing one's grammar is near and dear to my heart.

 

I completely agree with internalizing one's grammar. That's why I do start in early elementary rather than waiting until later. :) But I don't think that most 2nd graders need to start with FLL1 in order to learn all of the grammar. If the OP's DD doesn't understand that material, she could use the FLL1 proper vs. common noun lessons and skip the rest of the book, then pick back up in FLL2, or she could just casually each day talk about such nouns as they keep going, and it will probably sink in as she develops.

 

:grouphug:

[Alicia64]

Bos -- My dh is laughing at us and saying we're silly. The funniest part of this discussion is that we're both dedicated to FFL.

 

Maybe I should have said: my twin boys needed the repetition of FFL 1. One of them is on the gifted scale and picks up things quickly, but still, I didn't want to rush the "FFL experience."

 

My other boy is "slow to come to the party" (as I like to think) and definitely needed the time and repetition.

 

My concern is that the OP is going along with her dd's take that FFL is "babyish" and I don't think she should. Dd is seven and sounds to me like she needs FFL 1.

 

I should add that boys may pick this stuff up differently than girls do.

 

I'll also add that I'm a HUGE German Shepherd lover -- my black Lab is 11 yrs. and we plan on making our next family member a GS!

 

We might not totally agree, but we both care very much. And that probably will matter more down the road for our kids then knowing grammar!! :D

 

Alley

[boscopup]

We might not totally agree, but we both care very much. And that probably will matter more down the road for our kids then knowing grammar!! :D

 

 

:iagree::D

 

Btw, my DS2 will likely need the repetition of FLL1 also. He is almost 5 and still asks questions with funky word order. :glare:

[ondreeuh]

We use the Complete Book of Grammar and Punctuation ($10 on Amazon). If you look at the table of contents you can just write in which lesson of FLL 2 you will assign it. G&P is topical while FLL is spiral, so the first time FLL does capitalization I assign the first G&P page on capitalization. The second time, I assign the second page from G&P. It's pretty easy to align them and I've found it gives my ds good practical practice on the grammar concepts.

[ChrisB]

We loosely use FLL 1/2 for the grammar. I haven't seen the new FLL levels and don't know how they are different.

 

After her copywork and narration in WWE, I have DD underline all her nouns and double underline her verbs within the sentences. And, after reading this thread, I think I might have her circle the capital letters at the beginning of the proper nouns to reinforce that the noun is proper. She knows the definitions, but I like to have some reinforcement without the hassle of a separate worksheet for grammar. You could establish different markings, if you cared to, for the other parts of speech.

 

Once she knows her basic parts of speech, I think I'll give her Mad Libs for practice. Someone posted online Mad Libs, but I don't have the link right now.

 

ETA: Ah, found it.

Edited September 11, 2011 by ChrisB