Phonics-Reading - I think I have a Problem

[MamaBearMO]

Now I'm totally stumped.

 

My son (just turned 7) has been plugging along for a couple of weeks now with moving ahead in his phonics and we're doing reading everyday. We're playing a lot of games, and mixing things up to keep it interesting. I've been really pretty amazed at how well things have been going since it seemed like we were working on CVC words forever and now we've managed to get the blends down and the long vowels too!

 

Or so it seems....

 

Here is what we've been doing:

 

We're up to Lesson (Step?) 19 on All About Spelling. The boy can spell, really! Has not once gotten anything wrong on the board with the tiles or written on paper. I've even added words from the lists that follow the ten in the unit.

 

I've been making flash cards with the blends (final and initial), the long vowels, CVC's, etc. He picks 15 a day and reads the word on the cards, never skips a beat now. Yeah, right?

 

We've been doing three Nora Gaydos readers a day. Yes, three! And I started doing a suggestion I read in Reading Rescue 1-2-3; that is, To-With-By. I read the book to him, he reads it with me, then after we've done the three, he reads them to me, by himself, on his own. Again, we're now up to the last books in Level 1, so they're still pretty simple, but have enough challenging words that I feel like he's been making progress.

 

So, what's the problem?

 

Well, tonight my son says, after reading the last of his books to me, "Mommy, you know I know all the books by heart, right?"

 

Huh?

 

So, I pulled Bed Bugs (book 6), one we did last week, and challenged him to tell me the whole thing, from memory. He recited the whole thing, word for word, not one mistake!

 

So then I said, "Okay, we just did Stuck Duck, what was that one?" He again recited it, word for word, not one mistake.

 

So I pulled The Fox Begs and asked him about that one. Again, he recited it, in full, no mistakes!

 

What the.....Is he just memorizing these books and not really making any progress with reading? Is he just memorizing the words with All About Spelling but not really learning to read and spell?

 

Is there a way I can test him to see if he can really read, or if he's just memorizing every last thing?And goodness, if he's memorizing it all, what the heck does that mean?

Edited September 9, 2011 by MamaBearMO

[boscopup]

It's normal for kids to memorize books, though your son sounds like he's going above and beyond! :D

 

 

Get library books. Then you'll know if he's just memorizing. :) Either way, spelling isn't a problem!

[Aurelia]

One way to test is give him a book he's never seen before, and have him sound it out. Don't do the to-with-by thing. Just sit with him while he reads it and help him if he gets stuck. Try something like Hop On Pop or one of the I See Sam readers, which I think you can print out or have him read at the computer. You can also play Elizabeth B's phonics game, which mixes up words and some of them are nonsense so the child has to use their decoding skills to figure it out.

 

One thing that helped here was to drill the phonograms and have DD write them with her spelling words. For example, she might have flat, mast, and ship as spelling words, but would also write oa, ee, dge, and ar from dictation.

[Jryanbass]

LOL. Its not exactly the same, but my son (6) did something similar yesterday. "I" thought he was doing great, reading the words on the page, just going along swimmingly. THEN I realized he was looking at the pictures and figuring out the (correct) words from that. :glare: I have to use a piece of copy paper to cover the pictures. I agree with Boscopup, I would try library books and see if it helps!

[MerryAtHope]

Have him read the AAS word cards to you before you teach him how to spell them. Have him read a new reader to you rather than you reading it to him. Make up nonsense words with the letter tiles that follow the rules he has learned so far, or take a word and change out one letter at a time and see if he can still read them, and so on.

 

My dad was that way--memorized all kinds of books as a little one!

 

Merry :-)

[RootAnn]

Just as a test, right?

 

Pick one of the books you've read & he's memorized. Pick a page near the end & have him read all the words on the page to you --- BACKWARDS.

 

Then, turn the page to the one BEFORE that one and do it again.

 

So, if you were doing it with this post, you'd start on the line above this one and he'd read: "again it do and one that BEFORE one the to page the turn Then."

 

Then, you'd turn the proverbial page and he'd read, "BACKWARDS -- you to page the on words the all read him have & end the near page a Pick."

 

Get the idea? His mind could, but probably won't, move fast enough to be able to read the words backwards.

 

:tongue_smilie:

[kitten18]

I think I wouldn't worry about it since he's spelling so well. Can he spell the other words in the AAS book, the ones that are not on the cards? Is he using the tools he's learning? segmenting? finger spelling?

 

We all get to a point where we can instantly recognize a number of words. The reason we do the phonics is so we can breakdown words we've never seen before.

 

I would be really careful about getting library books. Our library has so many leveled readers that are filled with sight words. Ugh. The BOB books or I See Sam books would be good.

[Ritsumei]

Do you have access to OPGTR or 100EZ? Can you have him periodically read something from one of those sort of books to check him?

 

 

I would be really careful about getting library books. Our library has so many leveled readers that are filled with sight words. Ugh. The BOB books or I See Sam books would be good.

 

I hate that! I use OPGTR w/ Happy Phonics, and I've taken to making the little stories into "books" - sew down the center of several pages, with a cardstock cover, write in the words of the little stories they have that use the words, draw a few stick figures (it's amazing how happy stick figures make Monkey, along with a gratuitous duck here and there to say, "quack"), and we've got an EZ reader, perfectly matched to the curriculum. It's a bit time consuming, so I don't do it for every lesson. But pulling out the old ones is a good way for us to review the old rules. Of course, Monkey's not memorizing the way it sounds like the OP's son is!

 

ETA: I've started adding family members to the stories, which is a big hit!

[roanna]

I am not a reading pro but my son started out that way, memorizing books, but after tons of exposure to books began to decode quite well. He still memorizes books but can read efficiently also. For me, and I am a novice HS mom, but I think the memorizing part is just another skill he is using and he happens to be very good at it. This is just a guess, maybe he doesn't need to read the books so much, more variety. ????

 

Sorry if this isn't helpful , I just have experience with why my son did it. My son is also a good speller.

[MamaBearMO]

Okay, so today I had him read one of the books he'd not seen/read before and he struggled, skipped some words, guessed a few, but overall was sounding out and moving along at a pace that wasn't horribly slow.

 

So, at least I can assume he's learning to read?

 

Given that he didn't breeze through the book, I think maybe it's a good idea to slow down a bit and let him fully digest all the material we've covered the last couple of weeks, reading each day within the blends and long vowels to build some better fluency, then move on.

 

Or should I continue along to get through all the material and then work to build fluency?

 

With the spelling, I'm totally sure he's really spelling now and not just memorizing the word cards and such. I dictated a sentence to him and he wrote it out and there were no spelling errors. He does segment words as he spells and sounds out as he spells, so this isn't something I think I need to worry about. And I think I should probably skip all about spelling at this point until we get the reading more steady and fluent?

[roanna]

Like I stated I am not an expert but that's what happened with my son. He was becoming more fluent in reading but struggling with silent e and vowel blends. He was doing quite well with AAS1 we got half way through it and he just didn't want to do it. I thought we have time to do such things so we stopped.

 

He jumped up a whole grade level over the summer by just reading. We had a system where he would read whatever he wanted to during the day and I would read a few to him-- but before bed time he would pick a specific book he wanted me to read and then I would pick a specific book that I thought would work on what he needed, silent e or what have you. He loved these times and began to sail through books.

 

This is just MY experience but maybe it will help. There was only a 6 month gap from when I stopped AAS1 and when he took off reading fluently and jumped a grade level.

[MerryAtHope]

And I think I should probably skip all about spelling at this point until we get the reading more steady and fluent?

 

Not necessarily, the phonics in AAS will reinforce the phonics of reading. If it's going well, continue. If he can spell it, he can read it. If you need a break though to focus just on reading, that's ok too.

[campmom]

I read alot of books to my boys but I never read their "reader" to them. I always have them read it to my having never seen it before. I do have problems with them looking at the pictures trying to figure the words out but I can tell that is what they are doing. I think you can continue with the books you are using,we use those, we are also using the pathway readers. Just let his first exposure to each book be when he reads it to you. I make mine be able to read the book to me without mistakes before giving them their sticker and moving on to the next book.They usually read each book about 3 times. I would continue with AAS unless you feel like you hit a wall with it, then I would take a short break from it.

[Kirch]

I would be really careful about getting library books. Our library has so many leveled readers that are filled with sight words. Ugh. The BOB books or I See Sam books would be good.

 

You do have to be careful, but there are some phonics-friendly leveled readers out there too--you just have to look for them. If you flip through them before you check them out you can get a good idea of whether or not they'll work. The first level of Green Light readers are usually good. You could also use a small whiteboard and make up your own sentences or word lists (or even nonsense words, if you're afraid he's just memorizing the words).

[MamaBearMO]

Last night I sat down with the All About Spelling books (I have level 1 and level 2 in hand) and realized much of what we have gotten through takes us to Level 2, Step 12, so I think I'm going to continue with All About Spelling and concentrate on that with him, adding readers to match the lessons and take it slowly to give him a lot of reading practice.

 

A friend is going to loan me her Ordinary Parents Guide, so I'll look that over. She suggested that I line that up with the spelling, use the chapters as they match instead of going through from start to finish, to reinforce and explain more each rule. If it looks like that might help, I'll order a copy of that too.

 

I so wish that there was a step-by-step guide to help parents figure out how to teach reading. Something like, this concept usually takes this long, then this concept takes that long on average. I have no idea how fast or slow he should be learning or how fast or slow we should move through the material!

[hsmom]

My son was doing this when I would read the book first then he would read it. No more here. He is a listen, know and remember kind of kid. So when he hears it he knows it (for the most part). So once I stopped reading the books to him, he really dropped back on pace and started actually reading the books. Now if he reads a book more then 2 times himself he knows it by memory and we don't do that book again. He tries to get an easy time out of it, but I caught on and know better now.

 

So, my suggestion would be you drop the reading the book to him first. See how that goes.

[MamaBearMO]

My son was doing this when I would read the book first then he would read it. No more here. He is a listen, know and remember kind of kid. So when he hears it he knows it (for the most part). So once I stopped reading the books to him, he really dropped back on pace and started actually reading the books. Now if he reads a book more then 2 times himself he knows it by memory and we don't do that book again. He tries to get an easy time out of it, but I caught on and know better now.

 

So, my suggestion would be you drop the reading the book to him first. See how that goes.

 

I hear ya! When I had him read it first, never seen before, he was upset. I assured him it's okay, just take your time, sound the words out, and we'll then read it together if he wanted. He really didn't want to read it on his own first, but he did it and struggled a bit, but did it. So at least I know that he's not just memorizing and can't read or sound out the words. I can see though that while he can read, we need to slow down so he can gain some fluency. With my reading to him first, I think I artificially inflated his speed, but certainly not the fluency. I'm hoping if we slow down a bit, that will help and he'll become more confident.

 

I was looking at some options online today and found a program that looks interesting. Has anyone used Recipe for Reading? What do you think?

[MamaBearMO]

Well I got together with my friend and we pow-wowed about what might be a solid approach I can stick with since it's still early in the year (even though we've been doing stuff since July, technically it's the start of a new year).

 

She loves all about spelling herself and uses it with her children. She's also used Saxon phonics and used Ordinary Parents Guide to, in her words, condense the wordiness of Saxon for the scripting. We talked about where my son is now (her son struggled to read too) and her suggestion is to start with Saxon Phonics 2 (since he knows the basics that make up the first section review before going into the learning material) and keep doing all about spelling since it's working for him.

 

She has all the books and materials and said all I need to do is replace the two workbooks and return the cards/teacher's manual, since she won't need them for about two years (her next child will use it).

 

What do you all think of Saxon Phonics?

 

When I was looking through it, it does look like starting my son on 2 would work. It looks pretty teacher intensive. Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

I think I do need to find something (besides all about spelling) that I'm going to be able to stick with, that has a good pace for the lessons and that has practice, Saxon seems to have that, but is there anything else out there to consider if I'm going to wipe the slate clean and do a full phonics program?

[hsmom]

Personally I do not care much for the program. It was just too much for me.

 

Now if you want 2 the workbooks I have both of them (I have the whole program actually).... You pay shipping and it is all yours.