Please techies, enlighten me on running Windows on my Mac

[HSMom2One]

Please help me scope this out. I am trying to set up a home office so I can hopefully get a telecommuting job as a virtual customer service rep or something similar. There are certain requirements for this type of work, and one is that you need a PC with Windows rather than a Mac. It needs to have a Pentium 4 or greater, 2 GB RAM, etc. in order to support the software that is needed. A person also needs a land line phone, etc.

 

I've had a landline installed recently, bought a new phone and a headset, but now I'm facing the issue of not having a PC with Windows that has a fast enough processor, the right amount of RAM, etc. Some people have advised me that since I own a MacBook that has all the specs needed for this job, with the exception of it being a Mac with Windows, I should utilize the Boot Camp utility software and install a parallel port with Windows 7. I'm considering this, but I'm not sure if its a good idea or not. My dh was in high tech for a number of years and is very leery of running both os's -- but he also realizes technology has come a long way in the past 10 years. He told me to find out for sure about security issues. For one, he asks if it would make our Mac system more vulnerable to viruses, hackers and other potential sources of corruption once it has Windows.

 

I know some of you out there have done this, so am interested in hearing your input. What are the pros and cons? I'm also wondering how the price comparison would be in doing this vs. buying a new PC. Seems like adding Windows to my Mac would be much less expensive.

 

Finally, if I decide to go the parallels direction on my Mac, is there anyone here that would be willing to stand by to hold my hand when I need it? I'm pretty sure I could do the installation myself, but would need someone nearby to coach me if I got stuck.

 

Thanks for any input, suggestions and advice anyone may have to offer.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[HSMom2One]

bump

[Alessandra]

Well, I'm not a techie, but since no one else is responding....

 

Gosh, I sympathize with your dilemma. We run Windows XP on a Mac, using VMWare Fusion. Our version dates from 2008, so it may be better now. Their were a few glitches, mainly in booting up & closing down, and I cannot make it work reliably for more than one user. Parallels is similar to Fusion. I had the same worries that your dh does about security, especialy since I never want to hear about Norton Security or its kin ever again. We just use Windows for kids games, no internet, so I can't really answer your question.

 

Obviously boot camp is a different type of virtual disk. I looked in David Pogue's book, Mac OS X Leopard. On page 288, there is a box, 'The Virus Question.' He says that Windows can get infected, but "the Mac side of your computer is unaffected." Macs can't read Windows software OR Windows viruses. For Parallels or Fusion, he says you just drag Windows to the trash and install a new copy.

 

The book I'm looking at is several years old, so obviously, you'll want to check further. Perhaps on Mac forums?

 

I'm interested in your question myself. Didn't have a lot of time to goggle, but I did find this

 

http://www.amazon.com/Virus-protection-Mac-Windows/forum/Fx3BYKFVL6BXWG1/TxMVGMBTFOW7OH/1?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B000GHIV2Q

 

sounds as though there could be problems. Personally, I'd try to go with a dedicated Windows computer, rather than lose the peace of mind my Mac provides. Just MHO.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Alessandra

[ChrissySC]

:001_smile:I think what everyone is missing is that you really are not running both OS. You are simulating running another operating system. This is called a virtual machine.

 

I would not suggest that you use this for work. This is an application or testing environment really. :glare:That was the original intent for any vm - that and to satisfy Linux users of the past along with Mac users when software was not available.

 

 

Some links ...

 

http://www.parallels.com/landingpage/dskd75-2/?source=g_us&gclid=CIms0P-SwqoCFUID2godlWoq7A

http://www.parallels.com/landingpage/dskd63-12/?source=g_us&gclid=CNGS6eKSwqoCFcE42godvDJR7g

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/overview.html

 

 

You could switch to Windows 7 or run a dual boot system. A dual boot would mean buying the Win 7 OS and partitioning the hard drive. Install on the secondary partition. You can choose which to boot too when you turn on the system. http://www.windows7hacker.com/index.php/2010/04/how-to-dual-boot-mac-os-x-and-windows-7-complete-work-through/

 

As for your pc specs ... it is common to find single core or celeron processors sold in cheap pc computers so that they can be affordable for home use. So, you can do just fine on any dual core processor though - as long as it is running Win 7 with 2 to 4 Gb of memory. (If you want to talk about this, send me a pm. We can evaluate your current system.)

 

Now keep in mind that you said Macbook .... How old is it? You did not specify a model (Air?) or year.

Some of the older Macbooks have processors that are in the 1-ish GHz range and probably would not work well either, certainly not upgradeable to Leopard or Lion.

 

 

Lastly, your Mac is more vulnerable to a certain extent with VM. However, you should run AV on the Mac anyway with a good Mac firewall upgrade. A few months ago the Mac security installed was hacked successfully to the detriment of the system. You surf on the same internet as everyone else. Mac has had increasing problems with malware (includes all trojan, virus, spyware, etc. references) since as early as 2002, but most seriously since 2008. I never let my customers run without protection regardless of the brand name stamped.

 

---

 

One last note, I noticed that you mentioned a headset, phone, etc. If you are taking any personal information or banking information, including credit card, then VM is NOT pci compliant, and you run the risk of legal issues. As well, compliance standards require you regardless of Mac or Windows to run a paid for full installation protection suite (AV, firewall, spyware, etc.).

[ashfern]

I have an iMac with an Intel processor. I do have Parallels on it. I've used it a little bit because one particular website that I needed for work would only run on IE. It works fine but some things won't work properly because of the configuration (specifically games). Also, I have to quit out of everything on the Mac side to have enough speed. Parallels runs at the same time as the Mac OS. Part of my issues may be due to the age of my computer.

[HSMom2One]

You could switch to Windows 7 or run a dual boot system. A dual boot would mean buying the Win 7 OS and partitioning the hard drive. Install on the secondary partition. You can choose which to boot too when you turn on the system. http://www.windows7hacker.com/index.php/2010/04/how-to-dual-boot-mac-os-x-and-windows-7-complete-work-through/

 

This is actually what has been suggested for me on the work at home forum, and is what I had in mind as a possibility when posting this thread.

 

As for your pc specs ... it is common to find single core or celeron processors sold in cheap pc computers so that they can be affordable for home use. So, you can do just fine on any dual core processor though - as long as it is running Win 7 with 2 to 4 Gb of memory. (If you want to talk about this, send me a pm. We can evaluate your current system.)

 

My PC definitely has a celeron processor, and does not meet the requirements that most of the companies I'm researching specify. I've got Vista and half the RAM required, and I would update the OS and add more memory if it weren't for the fact that my processor isn't dual core to start with. So I think I'm pretty much out of luck with our current PC with Windows.

 

Now keep in mind that you said Macbook .... How old is it? You did not specify a model (Air?) or year.

Some of the older Macbooks have processors that are in the 1-ish GHz range and probably would not work well either, certainly not upgradeable to Leopard or Lion.

 

I'm good with the MacBook specs themselves. My machine is just over a year old, has Airport and a 2.26 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 2 GB RAM.

 

Lastly, your Mac is more vulnerable to a certain extent with VM. However, you should run AV on the Mac anyway with a good Mac firewall upgrade. A few months ago the Mac security installed was hacked successfully to the detriment of the system. You surf on the same internet as everyone else. Mac has had increasing problems with malware (includes all trojan, virus, spyware, etc. references) since as early as 2002, but most seriously since 2008. I never let my customers run without protection regardless of the brand name stamped.

 

---

 

One last note, I noticed that you mentioned a headset, phone, etc. If you are taking any personal information or banking information, including credit card, then VM is NOT pci compliant, and you run the risk of legal issues. As well, compliance standards require you regardless of Mac or Windows to run a paid for full installation protection suite (AV, firewall, spyware, etc.).

 

So you're saying that even with a firewall upgrade this is all a moot issue anyway due to this last point? Hmmm....

===============

 

Well, thanks for all the input, everyone. Especially you, ChrissySC! It's starting to appear that a newer, dedicated PC is what I will need for this type of work. I was really hoping that either doing an upgrade to our PC or running Windows on my Mac would work because I think it would be less expensive than buying a new PC that is up to specs.

 

Now - to find a low cost solution for what I will have to buy. Seems that we always end up needing to spend money in order to make money, right? :tongue_smilie:

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[HSMom2One]

bump

[Boxing Hare]

My dh uses VMware to run his work stuff from our mac. I'm not sure what someone meant when they said it was just for testing. We've never had any problems with it.

[ChrissySC]

I love how everyone half reads ... for application AND testing:lol:

 

 

Geesh, I say do VMWARE ... I think this is the best to use.

 

However, I would do a dual boot system, especially because it is for work.

[HSMom2One]

I love how everyone half reads ... for application AND testing:lol:

 

 

Geesh, I say do VMWARE ... I think this is the best to use.

 

However, I would do a dual boot system, especially because it is for work.

 

:D Sorry to be a real pain in the patootie, ChrissySC. But I'm not sure how to go about this. Am I correct in understanding that I use VMWARE (like Fusion) after I've partitioned with Bootcamp? And how do I go about setting it up as a dual boot system? Is that more software I would need to buy? By the time I do all these things, am I saving much money compared to buying a dedicated PC?

 

And one last question....if you were doing what I'm considering, what firewall and security package would you buy for protection?

 

Thanks again.

 

Lucinda

Edited August 9, 2011 by HSMom2One

[ChrissySC]

This will probably do better at explaining than I would ... Everyone has to have a fault, right? LOL

 

 

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/migrate.html

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/VMwareELearning#p/u/9/k8ZvZfMvPNI

 

Because OP has a pc ... she can migrate that windows from the pc machine.

 

For your Bootstrap question: It does not use bootstrap. You would have to choose which one to run at start up with bootstrap, just as you would with a dual boot system, which you should do if you are going to have to choose anyway, LOL. VMware Fusion is like a step up from that whole scenario with plenty of options (including being able to migrate windows from an existing machine in the house already, like OP, and not having to buy a windows license). Let's mention too that it is more like the Mac OS too. I assume that you bought the Mac because you like the visual appearance too. Well, Fusion allows a lot more customization and the ability to guest host a number of old Mac OS systems as well as all the Windows and Linux ... blah blah ... which equals more bang for the buck and flexibility while keeping the feel of the "Mac" intact.

 

A walk through the secifications for all mentioned in this thread to run Windows on Mac ...

 

http://kb.doit.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=7911

 

I wouldn't use BootCamp, but Parallels would be a close second choice for me.

 

Another option, not even mentioned is VirtualBox.

 

Regardless, you would need a Windows license, which is why I personally would not run a VM, but I would do a dual boot. However, again, OP has a windows machine, which is just outdated or has slower hardware that will not support her software. It is a good second option over a dual boot. Believe it or not, Windows runs every bit as good on a Mac because it has excellent hardware choices, which would cost you 1200 to 1400 for a machine that is set for Windows. Did that get confusing? In other words, pc to mac, compare equal hardware or apples to apples.

 

Good? Toss another question in there. :) I love having someone to tell what I know, and they care! DH is sick of hearing about my network attached file storage server. I think he likes the change to virtual machine. Although, when he asked if it had clouds .... I think he should stick to mowing the grass today. I think he glazed over at some point too!

[HSMom2One]

This will probably do better at explaining than I would ... Everyone has to have a fault, right? LOL

 

 

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/migrate.html

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/VMwareELearning#p/u/9/k8ZvZfMvPNI

 

Thank you! Very helpful videos....I had a hard time knowing what to look for exactly, but you knew just the vocabulary to use to find these. :)

 

Because OP has a pc ... she can migrate that windows from the pc machine.

 

Chrissy, I AM the op. :D My PC Windows version is Vista, which I am trying to get away from. So it seems I'm going to have to buy a full version of Windows 7 to install on my Mac.

 

For your Bootstrap question: It does not use bootstrap. You would have to choose which one to run at start up with bootstrap, just as you would with a dual boot system, which you should do if you are going to have to choose anyway, LOL. VMware Fusion is like a step up from that whole scenario with plenty of options (including being able to migrate windows from an existing machine in the house already, like OP, and not having to buy a windows license). Let's mention too that it is more like the Mac OS too. I assume that you bought the Mac because you like the visual appearance too. Well, Fusion allows a lot more customization and the ability to guest host a number of old Mac OS systems as well as all the Windows and Linux ... blah blah ... which equals more bang for the buck and flexibility while keeping the feel of the "Mac" intact.

 

Bootstrap? What is Bootstrap? I have BootCamp on my Mac, which is free and available for me to use already. And according to the article below (that you provided from the Univ. of Wisc.), it sounds like BootCamp would be best if a person is working with an intensive program -- which makes me think it would work because most of the companies use heavy duty programs for their virtual customer service centers that you have to connect with.

 

A walk through the secifications for all mentioned in this thread to run Windows on Mac ...

 

http://kb.doit.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=7911

 

I really like this article because it has a nice chart with visual information that's easier to understand.

 

I wouldn't use BootCamp, but Parallels would be a close second choice for me.

 

What is the problem you see in using BootCamp? (I'm really leaning toward this for reasons stated above, but if you have a really good answer as to why it might not be best, then I'm all :bigear:.

 

Another option, not even mentioned is VirtualBox.

 

Regardless, you would need a Windows license, which is why I personally would not run a VM, but I would do a dual boot. However, again, OP has a windows machine, which is just outdated or has slower hardware that will not support her software. It is a good second option over a dual boot. Believe it or not, Windows runs every bit as good on a Mac because it has excellent hardware choices, which would cost you 1200 to 1400 for a machine that is set for Windows. Did that get confusing? In other words, pc to mac, compare equal hardware or apples to apples.

 

:lol::lol::lol: Still trying to wrap my brain around this.

 

Good? Toss another question in there. :) I love having someone to tell what I know, and they care! DH is sick of hearing about my network attached file storage server. I think he likes the change to virtual machine. Although, when he asked if it had clouds .... I think he should stick to mowing the grass today. I think he glazed over at some point too!

 

Thank you again, ChrissySC! I'm starting to understand better, but realize I still have a ways to go before I can make an intelligent decision about this. Bottom line is this: I need a job to earn income for my family, and this job needs to have the least amount of start up costs. I own a Mac with the right hardware, just need to see if I can get the virtual PC thing going for less money than buying another computer.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[ChrissySC]

So sorry about not remembering the oringinal OP! LOL

 

I wouldn't use Bootstrap because of Lion upgrade. If you will not be upgrading, then you will be fine. I find that Parallels with an upgrade and VM Fusion both seem to work without any crashes based on the specs that I can find from other techies.

 

I try to cover it all, but I often stress the dissenting opinions so that others are aware that there is a great deal of "bad" on the other side. The decision is always based on needs, wants, and resources available. That was taught to me in my first project development.

 

Junk:

 

I just wrote about Lion on my techie blog for another hive user, but all in all it is not a geek OS :( However, the integration for other "i" devices and the cutesy interface is what will make it great for non-users, or novice computer users, that just want to turn on a computer. I hope that doesn't sound like I am downgrading a user, but rather that it is implying those who don't need anything other than the basics.

 

To me, Lion is too much like Windows anymore. I find it not so "special". I made the move to Windows with XP, I didn't go to Vista, and I love Windows 7 Professional and Ultimate. Now Snow OS X is a keeper - very open source friendly. :D

[HSMom2One]

So sorry about not remembering the oringinal OP! LOL

 

I wouldn't use Bootstrap because of Lion upgrade. If you will not be upgrading, then you will be fine. I find that Parallels with an upgrade and VM Fusion both seem to work without any crashes based on the specs that I can find from other techies.

 

I try to cover it all, but I often stress the dissenting opinions so that others are aware that there is a great deal of "bad" on the other side. The decision is always based on needs, wants, and resources available. That was taught to me in my first project development.

 

Junk:

 

I just wrote about Lion on my techie blog for another hive user, but all in all it is not a geek OS :( However, the integration for other "i" devices and the cutesy interface is what will make it great for non-users, or novice computer users, that just want to turn on a computer. I hope that doesn't sound like I am downgrading a user, but rather that it is implying those who don't need anything other than the basics.

 

To me, Lion is too much like Windows anymore. I find it not so "special". I made the move to Windows with XP, I didn't go to Vista, and I love Windows 7 Professional and Ultimate. Now Snow OS X is a keeper - very open source friendly. :D

 

Chrissy, do you mean Bootcamp when you say Bootstrap? And I don't plan to upgrade to Lion. Snow Leopard is where I plan to stay. So I guess my biggest question is this:

 

Based on your Univ. of Wisc. article and my last post about using customer service programs, Bootcamp seems to be a good solution. (Especially since I will not be going back and forth between OS's. I will launch Windows in the evening, do my job, then shut down for the night. I wouldn't need my Mac environment except during the day when I wear my other hats.) So if that is the case and I choose to use Bootcamp, then would there be anything else I need to install other than a full version of Windows 7? I need to keep costs down as much as possible at this point.

 

Oh, and what about this dual boot thing? Are you referring to the VM solution that allows you to run both OS's and go back and forth?

 

Thanks so much!

Lucinda

Edited August 10, 2011 by HSMom2One

[ChrissySC]

Sorry ... I am trying to type fast. :D

 

I hope I didn't confuse you. I don't think the Lion upgrade is a plus, except for the integration with iOS that makes it look neat.

 

To go with BootCAMP, LOL, http://www.simplehelp.net/2009/01/15/using-boot-camp-to-install-windows-7-on-your-mac-the-complete-walkthrough/

 

Those are the complete instructions. You need all of your discs prior to setup. I picked this link becuase it has PICTURES ... yeah! As well, it helps you to adjust the advanced features that a novice user would not tweak. You need advanced graphics for sure, like totally. :) Make it pretty.

 

Your cost is still low - one installation of Bootcamp and one Win 7 cd. The only difference is another 80ish dollars no matter which way you go. (Pssttt ... look at educational licenses ;) and home/student licenses because you homeschool)

 

If you decide to run them together without having to choose on boot, that is using VMFusion, remember that you get more of the Mac feel. Plus, don't forget that Bootcamp is NOT supported by Lion because it is open source programming. So, you would need to choose Parallels or Fusion in the future with the upgrade, which I would not do now because it is glitchy and lacks a lot of popular programs.

 

I think I babble today more so than usual ....

[HSMom2One]

:party:ChrissySC - You are absolutely my HERO!! :party:

 

Thank you for all the help and the pointers and help in understanding this all better. I'm very thankful for your input, and I also hope this has helped someone else maybe in a similar situation.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda