My latest writing quandry

[Tiramisu]

It's been hitting me lately that dd11, a rising sixth grader, will most likely be attending the Catholic high school where dh teaches. I'm starting to think it's important for me to choose a writing curriculum to prepare her for what will be expected for her in that setting. While I think WWS would do that, I'm a little unsure not knowing if all the levels will be ready when we need them. I've also looked at progynasmata curriculum but I don't know if that will give her certain skills she needs by the time she needs them. Also, she is highly depended on imitation and has struggled with coming up with her own ideas. I wouldn't worry about that so much if we had all the time in the world but we don't; she needs to get over that hump in the next three years.

 

 

In our experience, Killgallon seems to really work for better sentence writing so I'd like to continue with that. But what else?

 

• Should I do something that really focuses on paragraph writing though she is familiar with the basic of paragraph writing, using something like EPS's Paragraph Book Series (too basic?) or Paragraph Writing Made Easy?
  
• Should I go on to an essay writing figuring we'll be working on paragraphs in that process anyway? (Jump In)
  

I have an older dd who I worked a lot with on the five-paragraph essay. She's become really strong in that format but still struggles to elaborate within her paragraphs and is clueless when she has to do anything other than that format. I'd so like to avoid those issues.

 

Any thoughts?

[oraetstudia]

Can you find out what the high school expects or what the middle school does to prepare its students?

 

I'm not planning on sending my sixth grader on to a brick and mortar high school, but I do plan to enroll with one of the homeschooling schools for high school -- probably St. Thomas Aquinas Academy, MODG, or Kolbe. So, I looked at what they are using for writing instruction and kept that in mind as I picked my materials and approach.

[Crimson Wife]

The Paragraph Book series is really focused on the basics of how to write a simple paragraph. It's about at a mid-elementary level (3rd or 4th grade-ish). It sounds like from what you're saying that your DD can already do that and you're looking for something to improve her paragraph-writing ability- is that correct?

 

I'm in a similar boat with my DD. She did TPB and MCT's Paragraph Town but still isn't quite ready to move on to essay-writing. She's currently finishing up a Killgallon book and I have PWME is on tap for the fall semester. I may follow that with WWS and then a quick refresher of MCT's PT (those assignments are open-ended enough that I think it'll work).

 

I've looked at a bunch of different writing programs and nothing that I can afford really seems to jump out at me.

[Tiramisu]

Can you find out what the high school expects or what the middle school does to prepare its students?

 

I'm not planning on sending my sixth grader on to a brick and mortar high school, but I do plan to enroll with one of the homeschooling schools for high school -- probably St. Thomas Aquinas Academy, MODG, or Kolbe. So, I looked at what they are using for writing instruction and kept that in mind as I picked my materials and approach.

 

These are good ideas. Thank you.

 

What I've learned so far: Working on that five-paragraph essay so much helped make the transition to Seton English 9 a breeze for my oldest. Seton's assignments are very structured compared to Kolbe or MODG, and, therefore, IMHO, much more instructional. I actually think Seton's 9th grade English and Grammar/Composition would be great prep for high school with Kolbe or MODG where there's almost no actual writing instruction. I should keep this in mind as a possibility for 8th.

[Tiramisu]

The Paragraph Book series is really focused on the basics of how to write a simple paragraph. It's about at a mid-elementary level (3rd or 4th grade-ish). It sounds like from what you're saying that your DD can already do that and you're looking for something to improve her paragraph-writing ability- is that correct?

 

Correct. From your description TPB woudn't be the best choice. At least that's pretty clear.

 

I'm in a similar boat with my DD. She did TPB and MCT's Paragraph Town but still isn't quite ready to move on to essay-writing. She's currently finishing up a Killgallon book and I have PWME is on tap for the fall semester. I may follow that with WWS and then a quick refresher of MCT's PT (those assignments are open-ended enough that I think it'll work).

 

I wonder if we could do PWME while finishing up Killgallon at the start of the year and then try out PT.

 

I've looked at a bunch of different writing programs and nothing that I can afford really seems to jump out at me.

 

I've been avoiding MCT because of the expense. I'm tempted by the "sets" and the way all the components work together, but I already have my grammar and vocabulary materials for next year.

 

Thanks, Crimson Wife.:)

[butterfly113]

We've been homeschooling a while, but are clearly settled in with some of our curriculum choices... as many acronyms and abbreviations are coming up that I have no clue what they are... :lol:

 

Can someone tell me what PWME stands for??? Thanks!

[Tiramisu]

The Paragraph Book series is really focused on the basics of how to write a simple paragraph. It's about at a mid-elementary level (3rd or 4th grade-ish). It sounds like from what you're saying that your DD can already do that and you're looking for something to improve her paragraph-writing ability- is that correct?

 

I'm in a similar boat with my DD. She did TPB and MCT's Paragraph Town but still isn't quite ready to move on to essay-writing. She's currently finishing up a Killgallon book and I have PWME is on tap for the fall semester. I may follow that with WWS and then a quick refresher of MCT's PT (those assignments are open-ended enough that I think it'll work).

 

I've looked at a bunch of different writing programs and nothing that I can afford really seems to jump out at me.

 

We've been homeschooling a while, but are clearly settled in with some of our curriculum choices... as many acronyms and abbreviations are coming up that I have no clue what they are... :lol:

 

Can someone tell me what PWME stands for??? Thanks!

 

Paragraph Writing Made Easy :)

[Create Your Ritual]

I have actually been looking over PBW (Pattern Based Writing) and I think it would do a good job at getting your 6th grader up to a five paragraph essay style writing in a short amount of time. I also like WWS mixed with ALL. I think she is supposed to be doing one a year, so you could add that in. I guess what I liked about PBW is that after reading through the entire curriculum he quickly and effectively teaches how to go from writing sentences, to paragraphs, to a 5 paragraph essay. It all makes sense. I love Classical Writing, but also have to have my kids know the more modern structure because of state testing, and I think PBW does that.

[Capt_Uhura]

Doesn't CW get into 5 paragraph essay in the level after Homer?

 

Later, I'll pull out PWME but from my recollection, PWME is not what the OP wants. It's very basic. It teaches what paragraphs are and teaches outlining.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Capt_Uhura

[Narrow Gate Academy]

Doesn't CW get into 5 paragraph essay in the level after Homer?

 

Yes, it's in unit 5 of Diogenes Maxim.

[Tiramisu]

Yes, it's in unit 5 of Diogenes Maxim.

 

I think that's too late for us.:glare:

 

I was wrong. We would have time.

 

Aarrgghhh!!!!! Now I've looked at the CW website again.

Edited July 29, 2011 by NJKelli
correction

[Tiramisu]

I have actually been looking over PBW (Pattern Based Writing) and I think it would do a good job at getting your 6th grader up to a five paragraph essay style writing in a short amount of time. I also like WWS mixed with ALL. I think she is supposed to be doing one a year, so you could add that in. I guess what I liked about PBW is that after reading through the entire curriculum he quickly and effectively teaches how to go from writing sentences, to paragraphs, to a 5 paragraph essay. It all makes sense. I love Classical Writing, but also have to have my kids know the more modern structure because of state testing, and I think PBW does that.

 

I remember looking at PBW and thinking that something about it turned me off. To be fair, I should take another look.

[frankcassiesmom]

There's always Potter's School classes. He'd be 100% ready for high school after 6th-8th in PS classes.

[Create Your Ritual]

I agree there are a lot of good choices out there. The moderator posted that any info about PBW needed to be directed to private emails, and I don't really have much to say about it other than that anyway. ;-) I do get what you are saying though about having them ready for high school. I am in the same position, and sort of feel like I have my feet in both styles of writing right now. I think with more time they would end up near the same spot, now you just have to figure out how much time you have to do it in. I know that Memoria Press is teaching CC (Classical Composition) ... progym. exercises same as CW without the grammar, to 6th graders and up in their brand new online class. You can find out lots of information about it from them at their academy website and it moves a bit quicker into the areas you are looking for that CW would if you are wanting to go the progym. route.

[Tiramisu]

I agree there are a lot of good choices out there. The moderator posted that any info about PBW needed to be directed to private emails, and I don't really have much to say about it other than that anyway. ;-) I do get what you are saying though about having them ready for high school. I am in the same position, and sort of feel like I have my feet in both styles of writing right now. I think with more time they would end up near the same spot, now you just have to figure out how much time you have to do it in. I know that Memoria Press is teaching CC (Classical Composition) ... progym. exercises same as CW without the grammar, to 6th graders and up in their brand new online class. You can find out lots of information about it from them at their academy website and it moves a bit quicker into the areas you are looking for that CW would if you are wanting to go the progym. route.

 

I've been looking at Classical Composition. What I really like about it from the samples I've seen is that it has the potential to teach BEAUTIFUL writing. Dd also has potential to write beautifully, IMHO, so I'm up for maximizing that, and the CC methodology suits her. I like that it seems more streamlined than CW and seems to have students actually writing significantly everyday.

 

Looking at the Memoria Press online course website, it's amazing how many levels they go through of CC at the middle school level. I haven't quite figured out how they do that, and how I might do that at home without inspiring mutiny.

 

Of course, I looked at WWS again, and I really like the selections and the practical skills it works on.:willy_nilly:

 

I really am running in circles with these writing choices and just need to make a decision. Thankfully, dd is coming back from camp tonight. Maybe I'll just have her look at the CC and WWS samples. When dd started Writing Tales she just went through the book and read all the selections. I wonder if I show her the CC and WWS samples if she'll read the literary/non-fiction selections and decide which she likes best based on that. I guess that method of choosing wouldn't be the worst in the world. At least, she would start of with an element of appeal in her writing program.

 

(Did I say the nice thing about WWS is that you can just hand it to them and then go over their work with them? That's a real plus.)

[Create Your Ritual]

I think 1Togo would be a great one to talk about CC as she is currently using it with her dd. I am planning on beginning Fable & Narrative this year. Call me crazy, but I probably do WWS or PBW to some degree as well. I can't say if the samples provided of CC really give the overall feel of the program, as I think it comes together with instruction & in talking to Mr. Vader (from MP) who is teaching the class I would have dd10 5th grade in it if she wasn't so young. I think 6th grade is a great time though to begin the online version, or as 1Togo is doing, teach it yourself. Ask her to forward you some of the emails she sent me about the program. I am happy to share her knowledge and I am looking forward to using it. For Jim Selby's classes at Wakefield I gather it has made a world of difference in their writing ability. Good luck. It's hard. Luckily you have samples of WWS to begin and CC isn't that expensive, so you can get them both and sit down and really go through them without it being a great expense to you.

[Tiramisu]

I think 1Togo would be a great one to talk about CC as she is currently using it with her dd. I am planning on beginning Fable & Narrative this year. Call me crazy, but I probably do WWS or PBW to some degree as well. I can't say if the samples provided of CC really give the overall feel of the program, as I think it comes together with instruction & in talking to Mr. Vader (from MP) who is teaching the class I would have dd10 5th grade in it if she wasn't so young. I think 6th grade is a great time though to begin the online version, or as 1Togo is doing, teach it yourself. Ask her to forward you some of the emails she sent me about the program. I am happy to share her knowledge and I am looking forward to using it. For Jim Selby's classes at Wakefield I gather it has made a world of difference in their writing ability. Good luck. It's hard. Luckily you have samples of WWS to begin and CC isn't that expensive, so you can get them both and sit down and really go through them without it being a great expense to you.

 

Thanks, SaDonna. 1Togo has been very helpful in explaining CC to me, and I think I'm getting a better feel for it.

 

Talking with dh about the progymn., he seems to think it will be worthwhile no matter where dd ends up for high school. It makes me feel more secure knowing he feels that way.

[Create Your Ritual]

I agree NJKelli, I found lots of value in it as well and from talking to 1Togo, even if I don't end up getting through the entire series. I too have plans to integrate them into high school, although we have upcoming 2nd and 5th graders next year, so we have a bit more time.

 

I often feel like there are two roads and they both will lead to the same place eventually, although they may not 'look' the same. The modern approach to writing like PBW (a program which has stirred up a lot of controversy recently, and I am 'hoping' it wasn't because I mentioned it here... ugh), or a classical approach, like CW or CC. Schools generally only teach creative writing and then move onto 'how to construct a 5 paragraph essay', but they often lack the substance, the beauty.. the writing oftentimes looks dry unless you have a creative student who is a more natural writer. (This is based solely on my opinion from the writing coming out of my local ps before I pulled dc out).

 

A classical approach seems to give the student the substance, and focuses more on WHAT is being said; not necessarily just the format for how it is written. I will probably integrate a few programs, only because we have the time to do that. I have just read through the entire MCT Town curriculum and knowing how much my dc enjoyed the Island series last year, I am looking forward to adding this in.

 

I think for this year, we are working on sentences and paragraphs.. I will hold off on essays or specifically 5 paragraph styles until the end of the year or even next year. I don't see the rush. I have lots of great choices in WWS, CC, MCT, and yes ... even PBW gave some insight into topic sentences, etc. and how one might explain it effectively to a child. I love how WWS shows how to take lots of short sentences and combine them into one longer one. These are things my kids need to learn. ;-) Mind you.. I have not received CC yet, so I can't speak to the entire Fable or Narrative series yet, as it may also do the same thing.

 

I think you are on the right track though. I think we just need to form a WTM group with 1Togo at the helm for CC users this coming year. ;-) ;-) ;-)

Edited August 1, 2011 by SaDonna

[Tiramisu]

I agree NJKelli, I found lots of value in it as well and from talking to 1Togo, even if I don't end up getting through the entire series. I too have plans to integrate them into high school, although we have upcoming 2nd and 5th graders next year, so we have a bit more time.

 

I often feel like there are two roads and they both will lead to the same place eventually, although they may not 'look' the same. The modern approach to writing like PBW (a program which has stirred up a lot of controversy recently, and I am 'hoping' it wasn't because I mentioned it here... ugh), or a classical approach, like CW or CC. Schools generally only teach creative writing and then move onto 'how to construct a 5 paragraph essay', but they often lack the substance, the beauty.. the writing oftentimes looks dry unless you have a creative student who is a more natural writer. (This is based solely on my opinion from the writing coming out of my local ps before I pulled dc out).

 

A classical approach seems to give the student the substance, and focuses more on WHAT is being said; not necessarily just the format for how it is written. I will probably integrate a few programs, only because we have the time to do that. I have just read through the entire MCT Town curriculum and knowing how much my dc enjoyed the Island series last year, I am looking forward to adding this in.

 

I think for this year, we are working on sentences and paragraphs.. I will hold off on essays or specifically 5 paragraph styles until the end of the year or even next year. I don't see the rush. I have lots of great choices in WWS, CC, MCT, and yes ... even PBW gave some insight into topic sentences, etc. and how one might explain it effectively to a child. I love how WWS shows how to take lots of short sentences and combine them into one longer one. These are things my kids need to learn. ;-) Mind you.. I have not received CC yet, so I can't speak to the entire Fable or Narrative series yet, as it may also do the same thing.

 

I think you are on the right track though. I think we just need to form a WTM group with 1Togo at the helm for CC users this coming year. ;-) ;-) ;-)

 

Please keep me in the loop if this gets started. I broke down and ordered CC. Dd will get a lot of writing exercise, at the very least. If something doesn't click, there still WWS. There are some very useful skills in WWS so I think I need to read through it all again to see how to integrate the method it into our content areas because I don't think dd or I could ever do two writing programs at once.