I could use some advice from all you Horse Ladies

[Jackie in FL]

My 11yodd has been taking horseback riding lesson for a year now. She rides English and can canter and jump. She's actually pretty good. The two instructors she's had say she is a natural rider. Even though she's 11 she is tiny. She is 4'6" and weighs about 60lbs. So as you can see she is little for her age. The horse she rides is 14.? hands. She's been riding him or about two months and doing great. Till today she has ridden in a very controlled environment. O.K. that's the background. Here's the story. Today her instructor took her for a trail ride. Thank goodness she put her in a western saddle and not an English. Any way, about 5 minutes into the ride my daughter is back at the barn. The horse had bolted and ran back to the barn. The horse was going so fast her instructor couldn't even catch him on her horse. My daughter was terrified and crying to say the least. Her instructor told her she did a great job staying on and that she needed to turn his head to make him stop. We got her back on the horse and her instructor took her out to their front field to practice turning his head and to learn to control him. Needless to say he did it again. This time I saw him. My.heart.stopped. He was running so fast I thought he was going to crash into the fence. He stopped. She jumped off and said she was never riding again. Her instructor was telling her to grab the reins almost by his ear. But to not lean forward. I gently pointed out to her that her arms were too short and she couldn't reach that far. She said she didn't think of that. :glare: She then got on him and he tried the same thing with her. Now this horse has never done this before and she couldn't understand why he was behaving this way. This is the horse she uses for beginners and is a real confidence builder. My daughter has never had trouble before even when jumping. Sorry this got long. Now for my questions:

 

1. Would you let your daughter back on this horse? Of course not on the trail but anywhere?

 

2. Do you think she is big enough or strong enough to stop the horse from running away?

Her instructor seemed to think she could have stopped him before he started because he starts slow. But isn't she a bit young? Next time she said she would put a knot in the rope so she would know where to grab. I know she will work with her and won't do anything to put her in danger. She is really a good instructor and I trust her. I think because my daughter looks so natural on a horse we forget how inexperienced she really is. She did say when he was running and she saw the barn and knew he would stop that it was "kind of fun" But the "not" being in control was what was terrifying.

 

3. How long should I wait to encourage her to get back on? Maybe a different horse. This child eats, sleeps, and breathes horses so I don't want this to ruin it for her.

 

If you made it this far :001_smile: thanks and any advice would be appreciated.

Jackie

[kRenee]

1. Would you let your daughter back on this horse?

 

No. He is unreliable and knows that he can take advantage of her. A horse can bolt even in the riding ring and the fact that he did it twice makes me not trust him.

 

2. Do you think she is big enough or strong enough to stop the horse from running away?

 

Maybe not. I was a whole lot bigger and stronger when I was 12 and rode a horse all the way home at full runaway speed with his nose touching his shoulder. The only thing that would stop him (later) was a seriously harsh bit - I'm surprised I didn't break his jaw.

 

3. How long should I wait to encourage her to get back on?

 

When she is ready. She has to want it. Maybe, even be a little angry that the horse took advantage of her and determined she won't let it happen again. Lessons for a year really isn't that long and hasn't given her a lot of experience in feeling what the horse is going to do.

[Mekanamom]

1. Would you let your daughter back on this horse? Of course not on the trail but anywhere?

 

2. Do you think she is big enough or strong enough to stop the horse from running away?

 

 

3. How long should I wait to encourage her to get back on? Maybe a different horse. This child eats, sleeps, and breathes horses so I don't want this to ruin it for her.

 

If you made it this far :001_smile: thanks and any advice would be appreciated.

Jackie

 

Ok, I was not there & even though I have horses and like to ride, I am NOT an instructor or an expert. That said, as a horse mom...

 

#1. Yes. I would let my dd back on that horse, since she's ridden him without issues before. (But maybe not with that instructor!)

 

#2. This is hard to say without seeing your dd or the horse, but if she can control the horse in the arena, I believe she could do it on the trail. She should practice one-rein stops a lot before going back out on the trail. There is a way to run the reins through your hands so you don't have to lean forward to grab them. A knot in the reins, or even a bit of duct tape is a very good idea.

 

#3. The sooner the better.

 

I don't care how well the horse does in the arena. The instructor really should have *practiced* trail riding, one-rein stops, etc. with your dd before taking the horse out of the arena. Even the super great bomb proof beginning rider horses can have an off day. If the horse is used to an English saddle, it might have even been an issue with the Western saddle that set him off. Not a good excuse for the horse, but who knows...

 

Give your girl a hug from us over here, and tell her good job for keeping her seat!

[Cindyg]

How fascinating! This is exactly where I am in my own horsemanship! I have a good 20YO horse who I have been riding for 10 years. And I've been riding all my life. But this horse and I can't go out on the trails safely.

 

Trails are not easy, especially for a horse who only goes out occasionally. Of course, there are plenty of horses who go out every day, and are known to be reliable on trails. I'd bet money that the horse who bolted on your daughter does not go out often. If that's the case, your instructor was either very naive or very optimistic.

 

Back in my previous life when I studied dressage seriously, my (otherwise competent) instructor loaned me a horse to go out on a trail ride with a group. This horse schooled in the arena every day of his life, and had probably never given anyone a problem. It never occured to me (and I guess not to my instructor either, and she should have known better!!!) that trail riding required a different skill set. We weren't out five minutes before I knew I was in serious trouble. Fortunately, that day I was able to dismount and lead the horse home safely. But it was difficult. Even leading that horse back home safely was very difficult. He was totally rattled. And so was I!

 

<<Her instructor told her she did a great job staying on and that she needed to turn his head to make him stop. >>

 

This is good advice, but how was your daughter to know this? Had they ever practiced it? This should be practiced from the walk, then from the trot, then from the canter hundreds of times before you can count on either the rider remembering it or the horse responding to it in an emergency. The goal here isn't to pull the bolting horse over. The goal here is to establish a conditioned response where the horse will reliably yield his hind quarters and stop when his head is pulled around. For this to become failsafe, you have to learn it and practice it under normal, safe, slow conditions.

 

<<We got her back on the horse and her instructor took her out to their front field to practice turning his head and to learn to control him. Needless to say he did it again. >>

 

Oh, this is horrible! Horrible! This is grounds for leaving the trainer! I'm nearly speechless with horror reading this! Major adrenalin rush here!

 

OK, you've got a horse totally worked up from a bolt, and the instructor PUTS THE CHILD BACK ON! and TAKES HER OUT TO THE FRONT FIELD? Arghh!

 

If the instructor believed the horse was safe, then SHE should have gotten on and ridden next. Your daughter didn't need to get back on that horse again. Not that day. Not in a field. Maybe not ever. She could have gotten on a calm horse. She could have tried again another day when she felt better. She could have been hand-led in a small pen to get her confidence back. She should not have gotten back on THAT HORSE, THEN, in an OPEN FIELD! And this was NOT the time to try out the one-rein stop! Arghh! I'm so mad for her!

 

<<She then got on him and he tried the same thing with her. Now this horse has never done this before and she couldn't understand why he was behaving this way. >>

 

Well, duh! I can explain it in very simple language: The horse was worked up!

 

If this were my horse, I would have had the horse put his head down until his adrenalin was back under control. On a really worked up horse, this could take 20 minutes!

 

"Head down" is another calm-down behaviour that I have taught my horse under non-emergency conditions, and we have practiced it hundreds if not thousands of times. He knows to put his head down on cue, and he knows it means it's OK to calm down. (Like us, horses would rather feel safe and be calm if they can.) You can't teach this or anything else in an emergency.

 

Another thing that one might do with this worked up horse might be to put him in a round pen (sans rider) and let him run this steam off.

 

But the last thing he needed was to have a child back on his back while the adrenalin is still pumping madly through his veins! Arghhh! Dumb and dumber!

 

<<This is the horse she uses for beginners and is a real confidence builder. My daughter has never had trouble before even when jumping. >>

 

I believe this. Anybody can have a bad day. Especially in the woods. That's why your instructor should have taught both the horse and the rider what to do in an emergency! I'm sure the horse will be fine back in the arena another day.

 

<<1. Would you let your daughter back on this horse? Of course not on the trail but anywhere?>>

 

Yes. If she wants to. I would make no big deal about whether she ever gets on this horse again. IMO, it makes no difference. Your instructor should respect her wishes. This was a close call and a major scare.

 

<<2. Do you think she is big enough or strong enough to stop the horse from running away? >>

 

Yes, if both she and the horse had been taught to do a one-rein stop under safe conditions, and if they had practiced it from all three gaits hundreds of times over the last year. Then, yes, she *probably* could have stopped the bolt. No guarantees.

 

And, yes, if she had had the experience to start the one-rein halt at the first sign of trouble, before the horse was actually bolting, she would have had a good chance of preventing the incident.

 

<<Next time she said she would put a knot in the rope so she would know where to grab. >>

 

If this were my daughter or my horse, there would be no next time. Not in the woods. Not on this horse. Not with this instructor.

 

<<She is really a good instructor and I trust her. >>

 

Hmmm...

 

<<3. How long should I wait to encourage her to get back on?>>

 

I'd let your daughter decide. Most horse people cannot stay away from horses, despite our fears.

 

It think it's very important that her next lesson be in a small pen. The instructor should begin by leading her until your daughter feels OK to ride alone. Then the instructor should put her on a longe line, in the same small pen, and work at a walk. Nothing more until your daughter is ready to go on. This could take minutes; it could take years. The instructor should respect your daughter's needs here. She should not be pushed. Her motivation to continue riding will come from her own love of horses, not the instructor's pressure.

 

I would never again want her to go trail riding on a horse that doesn't trail ride regularly. Like almost every day. Trail riding on a not-trail-savvy horse is fraught with dangers.

 

If you want to stick with this instructor for arena work only, well, what can I say. I'd so rather see you with an instructor who has the one-rein stop built into her lesson program, but there are very few of them. Most instructors are so obsessed with equitation it doesn't even occur to them to work on safety.

 

OK, you hit a hot button of mine. I hope I haven't discouraged you or scared you to death. I also hope your daughter goes on to have a long life loving horses.

 

What part of the world are you in, just in case one of us here can recommend an instructor who would know instinctively not to put the child back on the just-bolted horse? Oh, I see you're in FL. I have no horse contacts there. :(

[Remudamom]

Ok, I was not there & even though I have horses and like to ride, I am NOT an instructor or an expert. That said, as a horse mom...

 

#1. Yes. I would let my dd back on that horse, since she's ridden him without issues before. (But maybe not with that instructor!)

 

#2. This is hard to say without seeing your dd or the horse, but if she can control the horse in the arena, I believe she could do it on the trail. She should practice one-rein stops a lot before going back out on the trail. There is a way to run the reins through your hands so you don't have to lean forward to grab them. A knot in the reins, or even a bit of duct tape is a very good idea.

 

#3. The sooner the better.

 

I don't care how well the horse does in the arena. The instructor really should have *practiced* trail riding, one-rein stops, etc. with your dd before taking the horse out of the arena. Even the super great bomb proof beginning rider horses can have an off day. If the horse is used to an English saddle, it might have even been an issue with the Western saddle that set him off. Not a good excuse for the horse, but who knows...

 

Give your girl a hug from us over here, and tell her good job for keeping her seat!

 

I agree. All of us riders have fear issues from time to time. Tell your dd for me that I'm working on a trail issue myself!

I really would encourage her to get back on. I've hit the ground time after time over the past 42 years I've been riding, and I've always gotten back on, even the time that I had to follow up with an ER trip.

 

Hopefully her "trainer" (cough, cough) will resolve the horse's issues. I'm a bit suspicious of the saddle too, since that is one of the different circumstances. Maybe you've just got a horse that's plain old untrailworthy, although all that takes is some appropriate training. In any case, it's not your dd's problem to solve.

[Jackie in FL]

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. You have given a lot to think about. My daughter processes things by talking about them so we will be having lots of conversations. When she was first learning to jump she fell off the horse but luckily it was a small pony and she didn't have far to fall. It took her a long time to want to jump again.

She's only been riding this horse and taking from this instructor for 6 weeks and I can see now that it wasn't long enough. Her instructor had had other children ride this horse on the trail and thought my daughter was ready. She did say later he hadn't been out in a while. :glare:My daughter said they did practice the one rein stop but obviously not enough. We had to switch instructors because the horse her instructor was using was sold and she didn't have a horse of her own. She's the one that recommended this lady.

MY daughter said she actually kind of liked going that fast and wasn't afraid of falling off. She was afraid because she didn't have control and thought he might trip or something like that.

 

Most horse people cannot stay away from horses, despite our fears

No kidding.:D Although she's very sore today she is already talking about riding again and asked me if she should ride Bandit again. She doesn't really want to right now and I can't blame her. I told her we would put her on a different horse first and go from there. I also told her if she ever rode him again it would be on a lunge line and in a small pen where he wouldn't have an opportunity to bolt.

 

I'd so rather see you with an instructor who has the one-rein stop built into her lesson program

 

This will happen from now on. I'm sure she will start where my daughter is comfortable and let her work at her own pace. We will only be doing what she is comfortable doing.

 

 

I think part of the problem is that when my daughter rides she looks like she was born riding and you forget that she's only been on a horse about 60 times. I also think my daughter was getting a little over confident in her riding abilities. Yesterday was definitely a reality check.

[Laura R (FL)]

Hey, Jackie....same Jackie in Central FL? Who are you riding with? I know a few people and one with a Bandit...curious...

[Ottakee]

My FIRST question would be if this was a TRAIL horse? There are horses that are WONDERFUL in the arena--dressage, jumping, etc. but are terrible on the trails. They have not had the experience and exposure to deal with all of the new stuff they come across on the trails--even twigs cracking, squirrels, etc.

 

This horse might also be barn sour, esp. if it never gets out of the arena. It is calm in a familiar environment but gets very upset when taken out of that environment.

 

I agree with the others about possible saddle fit issues as well.

 

I would have a nice LONG talk with the trainer/instructor about this. Find out how much trail riding this horse does, when was the last trail ride, how often is it ridden Western, etc.

 

I think that the instructor should have progressed with this much more step by step, esp. if the horse is not regularly used on the trails. If it is a younger horse, you would want it trail ridden several times a week. If it is a 20 year old horse with YEARS of trail experience than less frequent is likely OK.

 

I have TINY 12 and 11 year old girls. They have good seats but have special needs so they do very basic riding. Their horse is about 30 years old. We did find out though that he will GO if 11dd kicks him for a canter--he actually started galloping with her--thankfully we were in the arena. On the trails though he will just follow nose to tail with the horse ahead of him.

 

Now my horse, a 15hh 15 year old gelding, is AWESOME on the trails (at least so far--only had him since the end of Feb.) BUT in the arena is is FAST as he used to be a barrel racing and competed in other speed events. He is expected to be asked to RUN and gets very excited. I would consider letting my girls ride Spy on the trails between 2 other horses but they can NOT ride him in the arena as he will GO, esp. if you lean forward at all.

 

I guess all that to say that the horse and its experiences make a HUGE difference on safety. This horse might be great in the arena but not a good trail mount for your dd at this time.

 

If the instructor dismisses your concerns or you don't feel comfortable with her answers I would look else where for lessons. Safety is the number 1 concern. I also assume she was wearing a helmet---a MUST.

 

Also, if your dd does ride this horse again in the arena, expect that she might go backwards a bit until she rebuilds her confidence.

 

Right now I am a tad nervous about my trail ride this afternoon. I am picking up a friend whose horse has not been with another horse in over a year (nor in a trailer) and then we are going riding with a friend who is VERY timid and nervous (but has a very safe mount). Spy should be fine, I just worry about what will be happening around me.

[Jackie in FL]

She owns Red Fox Stables in Lithia. She's been around a long time. My daughter's 1st instructor used to work with her.

[Laura R (FL)]

Ah...I'm thinking of Jacklyn (sp?) and I couldn't remember if she had a dd or just boys.

[Happy]

To me, this is a trainer issue rather than a horse issue. Yes, the horse is the one who misbehaved, but it is the trainer who set up the situation.

 

A barn sour horse is one who wants to get back home at all costs. After all, the barn is where the horse doesn't have to work. This trainer must take this horse and practice trail riding it. When it bolts (or even hurries) back to the barn, dhorsey must be ridden and ridden and ridden right there at the barn. LOL, my mare learned that if she hurried back to the barn we turned lots of circles before getting there. And getting back to the barn didn't mean we were done. Might as well stay out on the trail.

 

What this incident tells me that the horse didn't have respect for her rider. That's a serious issue. For a beginner rider, I want a horse that does what it needs to do, not necessarily what it's being told to do. I've ridden horses that took great care of me.

 

I'm proud your daughter stayed on top of the horse. Excellent. Tell her she did great. Staying on top is often the safest place to be.

 

I'd be most unhappy with the trainer. It is time for a serious heart to heart about safety. I love trail riding and to me something is quite fishy about this entire thing.

[Cindyg]

I have an update on this thread. My horse bolted with me last night! One minute we were trotting along nice and slow on a loose rein; the next minute, he was off like a rocket. My horse is a big strong horse (that's him in the picture) with a neck like a tree trunk. And I ride in a rope halter (no bit) and a treeless saddle (can be unstable).

 

Of course I thought I was going to fall off and die.

 

But we have practiced one-rein halts. Even in my panic, without any time to think, I got a hold of the one rein. It took me maybe three strides to get a good grip on the rein and pull. Once I had it, it took him maybe 10 more strides to stop. He never did actually turn. (When he stopped, he was still facing the same direction as the bolt.) But he stopped.

 

I was so astonished to be alive! I don't think I had ever tested a one-rein-stop in a real bolt before. But I have used it a lot when he just got too fast or just wasn't listening. So, anyway, it worked!

 

Jackie, in your original question, you said the instructor said you daughter should have turned the horse in a circle, and you wondered if a child would be capable of doing this. Of course my horse isn't a child's horse, but it took a tremendous amount of pull to stop him. And, of course, this is a conditioned response we had practiced many times, so that worked in my favor -- both for my instincts to grab the rein, and in his response to it. I'm just really grateful that it worked.

 

Oh, and also, once my horse stopped, he was calm. We actually have a post-spook routine that we've had way too much practice implementing. So we went through those steps, and routine took over. We were able to continue the ride without further incident. (Whereas, in your daughter's situation, the horse was all worked up and the horse blew up again.)

 

I think the difference here is that it was my horse and I was his person. Though the bolt was exhilerating, we both knew the moment was over (whereas your daughter really had no way to evaluate that).

 

So, how is your daughter doing in her riding? Are you still with that instructor? Has she been back on that horse? Has the fear stayed with her, or is she OK?