Can NOT make up my mind! - pre-algebra again or on to algebra?

[Deniseibase]

I have a bright, math-loving dd who will be in sixth grade in the fall. We have always used Saxon, which she has been accelerated in and has complained a lot over the years that it is too easy. She enjoys math puzzles and problem solving, is very quick with mental calculations, and intends to study either math, chemistry, or engineering (depending on which day you ask her! :001_smile: ).

 

Some background - This year she finished Saxon Algebra 1/2 3rd edition. However, for the first time she hit a few snags - we had some trouble with ratios and the distance formula mid-year, and towards the end of the year she just could NOT wrap her head around some of the geometry. I think the mid-year problems were due to stress at home (dad was off work for awhile) and are resolved now (dad's working again, hooray!). We have covered ratio and distance since then and she has NO trouble with it. Geometry is however still a problem and she is beginning to hate it.

 

To top it off, I have declared that next year WILL be the year we get her up to grade level for writing. She has always hated writing and done very poorly at it, but she has made great strides in reading and grammar in 5th and I think she just needs a good push to bring her writing up also. I have what I think will be a good plan but it will be extremely challenging for her and she will get frustrated a lot, especially at the beginning of the year. So I am wary of pushing her in math at the same time & want to give her a math program that will be interesting and fun, but not TOO challenging.

 

We have AoPS Intro to Algebra and I don't quite think she has the maturity for it yet - she likes to right ALL the time and has a perfectionist streak, the discovery method combined with new & challenging material would probably overwhelm her and cause her to doubt her ability. But, I think eventually we are going to end up in the AoPS series if for nothing else than the Number Theory and Counting and Probability books.

 

 

For in the fall, I am considering -

 

- continuing with Saxon Algebra I 3rd edition

PROS: this is what dd is familiar with

CONS: the integrated geometry will make her cry

 

- switching to Saxon Algebra 1 4th editon

PROS: geometry on hold until later when we can devote a whole year to it, looks to have a lot more of the problem-solving and word problems that she loves. DD WANTS to do this one after seeing the online samples.

CONS: nobody seems to have the love for this. Can't find any reviews or anyone who has used this happily. Even the Saxon rep at the convention told me we didn't want it, although when I asked him why he said because the geometry is split out, which I frankly think would be a plus for us. A little nervous about using ANY program when it is brand spanking new.

 

- Saxon 8/7 (which we did not do previously), done at her own, accelerated pace, followed by AoPS Prealgebra and/or AoPS Intro to Number Theory

PROS: won't be overly challenging on top of the writing on other subjects, same format as the Saxon 4th Algebra stuff so gets her used to that, the AoPS stuff at the end of the year will be emphasizing the fun stuff and not approached too rigorously. Covers the stuff that was covered last year so I don't have to worry that there are holes in her knowledge due to a stressful winter. All these threads lately about kids who aren't ready for algebra/higher math make me worry :blink:

CONS: I'm afraid she'll be bored and we'll waste a year covering stuff she already knows, just because I'm worried about gaps and overwhelming her.

 

- AoPS Prealgebra

PROS: she already knows most of the material, so not overly challenging. Introduces a new style, very different from Saxon, and gives her a chance to get used to the discovery method without TOO much frustration. All these threads lately about kids who aren't ready for algebra/higher math make me worry :blink:

CONS: she already knows most of the material, and approaching it from a new perspective may not be enough to hold her interest.

 

- AoPS Intro to Number Theory

PROS: almost all new material, none of it strictly NECESSARY so if she doesn't 'get' some aspect of it, it doesn't matter. She LOVES what number theory we have done so far & it's not unusual for her to suddenly pipe up with some random fact about primes or divisibility or base 2 numbers that she's worked out on her own.

CONS: Discovery method may not be best for a very young perfectionist. Would hate myself if I turned her off of number theory, which she clearly loves, because I chose a text that was a poor fit for her at this age. Not sure if the material covered will help her with Algebra the next year or if it will distract her from it.

 

 

Those are my main choices - I've also considered Jacobs, Dolciani, Foerester, Math U See, and simply beating my head against the wall! :tongue_smilie: Sorry I wrote such a book! Thanks for reading this far, if you did!! :D Any advice, suggestions, comments welcome, I'm literally changing my mind two or three times a day right now, have to settle on SOMETHING before August!! Thanks!!

[Crimson Wife]

If you did Saxon Algebra 1/2, I wouldn't do 8/7 if you decide to repeat pre-algebra. What about Singapore Discovering Mathematics 1? If you use the workbook there would presumably be enough challenge to keep a bright student interested.

[Deniseibase]

If you did Saxon Algebra 1/2, I wouldn't do 8/7 if you decide to repeat pre-algebra. What about Singapore Discovering Mathematics 1? If you use the workbook there would presumably be enough challenge to keep a bright student interested.

 

I haven't really looked at Singapore - to be quite frank, the zillions of books confuse me and I wouldn't know where to start :D We did Singapore Primary Mathematics 1A & 1B a long time ago and she was pretty bored, and she's not a big fan of lots of visuals, so I haven't bothered to try to figure it out. Think it would be worthwhile?

[Crimson Wife]

I wouldn't let a bad experience back with the 1st grade book deter you from looking at Discovering Mathematics. Kids change a lot between the primary grades and jr. high.

 

Take a look at the samples of the textbook and workbook. If she likes puzzles and problem-solving & finds Saxon too easy, Singapore might be right up her alley.

 

I've got DM1 on order and plan to pair it with Horizons Pre-Algebra in an attempt to stretch out pre-algebra over 2 years.

[Deniseibase]

OK, I've looked at the Singapore samples, and DD looked over my shoulder and said it was too easy and boring :( Discovering Mathematics DOES look like stuff she's already covered. Plus, she's now being pretty insistent that we NOT cover pre-algebra topics again, so I'm leaning more and more towards going ahead with Saxon Algebra 3rd edition or 4th edition or AoPS number theory - anyone have any opinions there? Thanks!

[love2read]

I would start an algebra text that's known for being slower/easier and if she starts to struggle, alternate it with something like Patty Paper Geometry, Hands On Algebra (the word problems are challenging) or whatever Maybe mid-winter you could introduce some of the AoP a week or two in place of her other text. This is assuming you have a lot of supplies around ;) I wouldn't go backwards with Alg 1/2 or 87.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I would recommend a year solidifying geometry also before hitting high school geometry. I second the Patty Paper Geometry recommendation plus maybe some Key To Algebra and Geometry. If she is just going into 6th you don't want to start Algebra 1 to soon (In my opinion, others may disagree however)

[jennynd]

what about go in algbra withh fred beginning algebra as supplement???

[Crimson Wife]

OK, I've looked at the Singapore samples, and DD looked over my shoulder and said it was too easy and boring :( Discovering Mathematics DOES look like stuff she's already covered. Plus, she's now being pretty insistent that we NOT cover pre-algebra topics again,

 

My $0.02 is that if the child hasn't mastered the material to my satisfaction, I don't care if he/she doesn't want to go over the it again. We don't move on until I say so. I get complaints of "we've already done this" and "this is too easy" and "it's boring" all the time. Tough cookies, kiddo. Math is a cumulative subject, and any gaps in understanding at the lower level will only get exacerbated in higher ones.

 

From my understanding, the DM1 workbook includes some pretty tricky problems. Even if she's covered the topic before in Saxon, she very well might find those problems challenging.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

 

From my understanding, the DM1 workbook includes some pretty tricky problems. Even if she's covered the topic before in Saxon, she very well might find those problems challenging.

 

 

:iagree: Those samples were not a good indicator of what the book is comprised of. Check this out Under the course outline you can see a few samples

[creekmom]

If you don't feel she is quite ready for algebra (and she is young), you might want to do a "gentle" introduction to algebra with an easier course- like Math u See Algebra. My son is going to do MUS algebra next fall (he just finished Saxon algebra 1/2). He'll move on to a more rigorous math text in 7th grade (either Jacobs or Foerster).

[Deniseibase]

Thank you for all the replies! I'm afraid I wasn't clear - she seems to know everything a prealgebra course would normally cover except the geometry that was at the back of the Saxon Alg 1/2 book, specifically constructions and bisecting angles and whatnot. I don't think another year of prealgebra will help her with that part! :) Which is why we're planning on devoting a full year to geometry later. Sorry for the confusion!! :)

 

The Patty Paper Geometry sounds like it might be a good supplement, thanks to the posters who suggested that!!

 

LoF - we tried it midwinter when she was struggling with ratio and distance & I'm afraid it is too wordy for her - she likes her math straight without the extra fiction - which is too bad, because I thought it was really cute!! :)

 

My husband has chimed in with his opinion that if I want to give her a year where she'll be interested but not overwhelmed, instead of having her repeat old material, have her do half lessons each day, taking 2 days to complete what would normally be a one day lesson.

 

 

Sigh. I'm trying to get the 5 options I ALREADY had narrowed down, and people keep offering me NEW options!! :lol:

[abacus2]

I think I would lean toward the Number Theory and Patty Paper Geometry. In my pre-mommy life, I taught high school math and was an accelerated math student myself. It sounds like she has pre-algebra down pat and isn't quite ready to handle Algebra ideally. I think a year of something different could be fun and beneficial.

[love2read]

My husband has chimed in with his opinion that if I want to give her a year where she'll be interested but not overwhelmed, instead of having her repeat old material, have her do half lessons each day, taking 2 days to complete what would normally be a one day lesson.

My husband suggested the same thing a few months ago, but I reminded him about our oldest who, incidentally, was also ready for algebra in 6th grade. That child did the odd problems one day and the even the next. Disaster. He lost interest in math and thought that he was always going to be done with math assignments in 35 or 40 minutes. Not trying to put up stumbling blocks, but she needs to be stimulated and excited about math, not see it as something to slowly schlep through.

[Deniseibase]

Oooo, love2read, good point, hadn't thought of that - and I can see that happening SO easily with her.....

 

Abacus2, thanks!! The idea of 'Number Theory + fun supplements' is sounding better and better - after we finished the Saxon Alg 1/2 book this year, we spent a couple weeks reading some of the Murderous Maths series. She was really excited about them and even though she was SUPPOSED to be reading them silently, we ended up with a LOT of "Mom! Listen to this!" on those days :)

[Karie]

My son was in 6th grade this past year and we started Algebra 1. I am using Foerster's algebra. I didn't see a reason to continue with Prealgebra stuff if he understood it. We are going through the text very slowly (he's in ch. 10 out of 14). I do odd problems and if he doesn't get it to my satisfaction, we do even problems. My thought is that I will probably do another algebra 1 program to solidify this in his brain after we finish Foerster's-thinking maybe Kinetic books. I want him to have a solid grasp of algebra-which he was completely ready for in 6th grade.

 

Foerster's is very thorough and I am happy with his progress. Every kid is different-most aren't ready for algebra in 6th, but some are, so you need to make that final judgement since you know your child the best. If you begin algebra and it isn't going well, you can always go back and revisit algebra later-the beauty of home schooling! :)