Spinoff: Math curricula to prepare for science & engineering?

[WTMCassandra]

You ladies on the high school board are soooo patient with me. I am such a newbie in this area. I will definitely do lots of reading here over the next couple of years.

 

I have gotten the message loud and clear that my "engineering personality" son needs as much math as can be crammed into his skull before college, beginning with Algebra 1 in 8th grade and going the distance all the way through calculus.

 

Okay.

 

What math programs would prepare him best? What are the most rigorous? Should the calculus be done at a community college?

 

Thanks for listening.

[kpupg]

What math programs would prepare him best? What are the most rigorous? Should the calculus be done at a community college?.

 

Well, I'm not going to "should" you, but I'll offer our experience and plans. My ds13 is heading for a math/science future of some kind. Since beginning home schooling, he has completed Singapore PM, NEM 1 and 2, and Life of Fred Algebra I and Geometry. He does LOF and NEM in tandem, completing both in about a year's time. LOF is the spine, and the appropriate chapters of NEM are spliced in. He sure knows his stuff with this method!

 

Now, just to make the schedule fit a little more easily, I am giving him a year of special topics in 8th grade -- probability, statistics, some discrete math, set theory, maybe other topics, along with a review of algebra.

 

Future plans are:

9th grade: Algebra II using LOF and NEM

10th grade: Trig/Analytic Geometry/pre-calc using LOF, NEM, and Singapore's College Math titles

11th & 12th grades: Calculus and Diff. Eq. at the local Univeristy.

 

I put that year of special topics in for 8th grade because I think 11th grade is plenty early for university courses (for non-academic reasons). Also, I'm hoping he can have a pile of fun before he has to "get serious" for college admissions purposes.

 

Hope this helps,

Karen

[WTMCassandra]

Wow. Differential Equations. My eyes are rolling back in my head! I never even dreamed of trying to offer that to my son in high school.

 

Okkaaaaay, I will screw up my courage and think about this.

 

LOF I am quickly getting familiar with (printed sample pages for DH earlier this week), but NEM is new to me. What does that stand for?

 

Wow, your son has accomplished a lot. It's good to know what other folks are doing. I am catching this issue early enough that I think I can make sure my son gets where he needs to be. He has been progressing well with Professor B and is near the end of the second book (just about to do fractions). The third book is supposed to be up through sixth grade work, but if he finishes it sooner, I'll move him forward if he's ready. So I don't think I'm "behind" with him or anything. But I'm glad I'm realizing all of this stuff now.

 

How are you handling the special topics? What curricula are you using?

 

You ladies are sure expanding my horizons in a hurry. Thank you sooo much! I'm a newbie all over again.

[siloam]

NEM is New Elementary Math by Singapore.

 

Heather

[WTMCassandra]

Ahhhh, thank you!

[8filltheheart]

Cassandra.....

 

Just to ease your burden here.....

Differential equations is typically a 2nd semester university sophomore class for engineering majors! Definitely does not even need to be on your radar for high school math. :)

 

I like Foerster b/c of the word problems. It really gets them thinking about how to apply alg and the entire purpose behind it.

 

HTH

[percytruffle]

Also, you will be surprised at how quickly an engineering minded kid can fly through math courses at a local cc. Even my dd who is a bio major made it through Calc II with no problem. She signed up for differential equations, but dropped it in order to take an upper level bio course instead.

 

Believe me, we would never had attempted these upper level maths at home, even with dh's engineering degrees. Outside resources are the way to go if you are at all hesitant.

[Jen S in Va]

My math/science minded son took a little different tact with his math for high school, so I thought I'd share his reasonings and choices.

 

He is going into his sophomore year as an engineering major. After deciding the school he wanted to attend he looked at their engineering program--especially at the math classes and found out what was required by the profs in those classes. He learned that the calculus classes are not allowed to use calculators on exams--homework yes, quizzes and exams, no. They want the students to have a thorough knowledge of the how and why, not to just rely on a calculator to do the work. So, when he found that out he decided he did not want to take calculus at the local community college. He wanted to study under the profs at the school he would be attending. So his high school schedule looked something like this (I'll work backwards because it's easier for me to remember that way): sr yr--independent study in calculus using Saxon calc and DIVE cd plus applied calculus using Excel--I found a book on this at B&N--he worked through exercises in it and really enjoyed it; jr yr AP Calc B/C through the Potter's School (he did not take the AP exam because he didn't want to test out of the calc--his decision); soph: pre-calc; fresh: alg 2; 8th: geom; 7th: alg 1.

 

Right now he's maintaining an A avg in calc and will be taking diff equations in the fall--he has one more semester of calc to go, plus I encouraged him to take statistics so that he can get a math minor. This is the process my son wanted--decisions were all his. I think he is very happy with his decision. He has taken other courses at the community college--composition--and will try to CLEP out of a couple of his gen ed classes next year--history and humanities--in order to lighten his load a little so he can concentrate on his engineering classes.

[MelodyInTx]

My son did:

Saxon Alg 1 in 8th grade

Saxon Alg 2 in 9th

Saxon Adv. Math 10th and one semester of 11th

He will be taking Calculus 1, 2 and 3 at the CC.

[forty-two]

As a mathy/engineering person myself, it's nice to take calc in high school - the exposure makes calc I in college easier, which is always good - and it is worth working for, but *not* if the rush to get to calc results in shaky algebra skills, because not enough time was spent solidifying what was learned. To be successful in a math-heavy major, a rock-solid foundation in algebra is *essential* (just as a rock-solid foundation in arithmetic, especially fractions, is essential to algebra).

 

Kitchen Table Math has an interesting post on why students wash out of engr programs. About algebra:

You see, mathematics is brutally cumulative. Calculus is really 10% calculus and 90% algebra (which includes a healthy does of trigonometry and geometry); and, the calculus step isn’t all that difficult usually. Most of the difficulty lies in either setting up the calculus step or finishing the problem after the calculus step. Calculus isn't all that difficult provided you've mastered algebra.

So whatever program you use, you will want to make sure you don't get so caught up in the rush to higher math that you neglect to ensure that whatever he is currently learning is mastered well.

[WTMCassandra]

Wow, forty-two, that was an awesome post all around. I am burning up my printer printing out that article AND his associated links. Those links are meaty too.

 

It is definitely on my radar screen to make sure the algebra is rock-solid. I remember that I had a terrible time in algebra. Also, my husband was a math major in college, and he remembers how tough it was because we had such a lousy algebra teacher in high school (we had the same teacher, but not the same year).

 

And although my DH has told me that algebra was important for calculus, I didn't realize it was such a high percentage of what's needed!

 

THANK YOU! That post is a keeper.

[kpupg]

Wow. Differential Equations. My eyes are rolling back in my head! I never even dreamed of trying to offer that to my son in high school.

... snip ...

Wow, your son has accomplished a lot.

 

... snip ...

How are you handling the special topics? What curricula are you using?

 

I know, I wouldn't have dreamed it until he did 2 1/2 years of math curricula in our first year of home schooling LOL. It is his special love interest :) For the special topics year, I am using Teaching Co. probability and statistics DVDs in tandem with LOF Statistics, Mathematics: A Human Endeavor, and TBD for other topics. I'll let him do a lot more choosing on his own.

 

Just to ease your burden here.....

Differential equations is typically a 2nd semester university sophomore class for engineering majors! Definitely does not even need to be on your radar for high school math.

 

So whatever program you use, you will want to make sure you don't get so caught up in the rush to higher math that you neglect to ensure that whatever he is currently learning is mastered well.

 

I would map out a few possible scenarios, and then set it all aside and just support your ds in getting as solid a math foundation as possible - take the time he needs to learn things really well! If he can do that and still do calculus (or more!) in high school, that would be fabulous, but don't let him sacrifice mastery of algebra to get to calculus sooner!

 

I so agree with all these posters. My son is unusual, and I am letting him work at his own pace, but I am also demanding mastery. If he should slow down in the future, he will still have plenty of slack available to finish with an impressive math transcript. It's up to him. And in fairness, I'll point out that his verbal skills are not at the same awesome level as his math skills LOL. We just gotta work out what's right for this kid. You have a different kid to deal with ... different answers there.

 

Enjoy!

Karen